Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

[ALex_hha]

Yes, both D90 and A90 are quite warm after 2 hours plus. I used to stack them. Now I place them side by side in instead of on three-tier rack for better ventilation.

Should I worry about this issue ? Wasn't able to find any info regarding temperature in official specs - https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/398270.html

 

[Dclone]

I don't think it's Supra's brand that make it possible.
Otherwise it would mean that they use a "supra conductor"

Otherwise, I always like the light blue colour of the Supra cables and might try what you say some day with 5m.

Well... You think. I know

 

[auronthas]

Should I worry about this issue ? Wasn't able to find any info regarding temperature in official specs - https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/398270.html

Not to worry, stack the hotter one on top as hot air rise, make sure you have adequate room for the vent. Since I have more rooms, I place mine side by side.

 

[Dclone]

They are really pricey. Do they worth it ?

For me they were worth it, easily. Solved two problems. 1. Unwanted noise. 2. The distance problem I had. The resellers are usually HiFi stores and my local store gave me the advice to test one. I think the cables also are in use at some hospitals because of their good shielding.

 

[auronthas]

For me they were worth it, easily. Solved two problems. 1. Unwanted noise. 2. The distance problem I had. The resellers are usually HiFi stores and my local store gave me the advice to test one. I think the cables also are in use at some hospitals because of their good shielding.

My 15 years old Supra power cable with hospital grade plugtop for my D90 MQA and Krell KAV400xi.

 

[avdsor]

Hi everyone,
I recently bought the D90 + A90 and I am listening to a lot of annoying crackling and popping sound. It doesn't matter the player, youtube, gamers. In such cases they are random. But when I move the windows volume bar, it’s constant.

I had this same issue with my DACs in the past on my PC. It is a grounding issue. I bought a USB 2.0 isolator from Intona, specifically the 5Kv usb 2.0 version. Works fantastic, no lag. It is a bit expensive but I think it works well.

 

[Veri]

I had this same issue with my DACs in the past on my PC. It is a grounding issue. I bought a USB 2.0 isolator from Intona, specifically the 5Kv usb 2.0 version. Works fantastic, no lag. It is a bit expensive but I think it works well.

The Itona works very well indeed, but is one of the priciest solutions

 

[ALex_hha]

The Itona works very well indeed

hmm, review for intona usb 3.0 isolator was not so good

 

[avdsor]

hmm, review for intona usb 3.0 isolator was not so good

The issue I have with that review is what was the baseline? There was only 1 dac tested and there was no baseline crackling/distortion/humming as what Frank is saying. So based on this I think this would be worth a try for the usb 2.0 version. If he notices no differences then send it back .

 

[Toku]

The following is my soliloquy.

I think audiophiles have a wrong understanding of USB isolators. It is not a device that improves sound quality in the first place. Therefore, it is natural that no effect can be confirmed by measuring amirm. On the contrary, it is a device that should not change the sound quality.
I use a lot of USB isolators in industrial systems. Their purpose is to ensure stable USB communication in places with poor noise environments. In an environment where nothing is disturbed by the surroundings, it looks ineffective and meaningless.
I think the ASR measurement is correct. However, evaluations that are ineffective and meaningless do not understand the true purpose of the product.
I think the biggest problem is the way it is sold. The claim that a USB isolator is a device that improves sound quality is unacceptable.
The same goes for understanding medical outlets, plugs, and power supplies.

 

[Veri]

I think the biggest problem is the way it is sold. The claim that a USB isolator is a device that improves sound quality is unacceptable.
The same goes for understanding medical outlets, plugs, and power supplies.

Right. The moment it comes with bold statements/claims or customer reviews of people who are "overjoyed with the sound", they are clearly selling it as something it's not

 

[AdamG]

The issue I have with that review is what was the baseline? There was only 1 dac tested and there was no baseline crackling/distortion/humming as what Frank is saying. So based on this I think this would be worth a try for the usb 2.0 version. If he notices no differences then send it back .

Welcome Aboard @avdsor.

 

[Tokyo_John]

Following up on an earlier discussion about attenuation, I wanted to share a new experience with SPL levels from the Topping D90 (USB input) running direct to the March Audio P252 power amp (~200-250 WPC via XLR) and driving a pair of KEF LS50 Meta speakers (KEF cites 85dB/2.83V/m sensitivity at 8 ohms nominal impedance dipping to 3.5 ohms...but tests imply closer to 4-5 ohms nominal).

For moderate and attentive listening SPL (70s dB, the highest "safe levels" measured using an Apple Watch) on my sofa (about 1.5-2m from the speakers) in a smallish room (4 m wide concrete back wall, ~20 cm behind speakers, 235 cm ceiling), speakers slightly toed in (~15˚), streaming from a MacBook Pro running the TV App for videos (volume control at max) and the Tidal App for music (Master quality direct to DAC, no software attenuation)...I'm requiring roughly -15 dB dialed in for movies and -25 dB dialed in for music. For quiet (background) listening, another 10 dB attenuation on top of that.

My sense is that a 200 WPC amp may be a minimum required to drive the KEF LS50 Metas, which (subjectively) seem to have significantly better mid-bass dynamics with this amp than they showed while being driven by the less powerful amp I was running previously (that was ~50 WPC). Just speculation, but this may have to do with the amp's ability to power through a LS50 Meta impedance peak at 90 Hz. Many reviewers have said much the same thing, that these speakers are relatively "power hungry."

Time will tell if -30 to -15 dB attenuation is reasonable.The quieter (background) listening levels anyways have less physical dynamic range (sound levels in the room), and so any loss of dynamic range going down to -30 dB is anyways less important (i.e., in situations where I don't want to hear a wider dynamic range, I won't miss it). I'll eventually get an A90, and also able to drive my headphones from the same system...but right now I don't feel compelled to run out and buy a pre-amp solely for the purpose of handling this moderate level of attenuation.

PS..subjectively, this set up sounds great!

 

[mac]

The D90 is the best sounding DAC I've had in my system. Previously, I was evaluating a SMSL SU-9 and it too sounded excellent.

 

[fendy323]

hiii, want to ask sir,
can someone give me some advice for setup a90+d90 with my hd800s?
i mean like volume d90 and a90 sparately ?

 

[UCrazyKid]

hiii, want to ask sir,
can someone give me some advice for setup a90+d90 with my hd800s?
i mean like volume d90 and a90 sparately ?

Set D90 to “DAC” mode, not Pre and only use the volume control on the A90.

 

[Atanasi]

can someone give me some advice for setup a90+d90 with my hd800s?
i mean like volume d90 and a90 sparately ?

There are various possibilities. One good option is to adjust A90 to a reasonable level according to the sensitivity of your transducer or power amp, and use D90 for fine-tuning according to the source. D90 has a remote, A90 doesn't. A90 has smaller noise level, by about 20 dB, so take advantage of that when you need lots of attenuation. D90 keeps channel balance at low volumes, unlike A90. A combination works best.

 

[hmscott]

Hi everyone,
I recently bought the D90 + A90 and I am listening to a lot of annoying crackling and popping sound. It doesn't matter the player, youtube, gamers. In such cases they are random. But when I move the windows volume bar, it’s constant. I recorded a video to show you.
My setup is simple: PC ---- USB ---- D90-- XLR --- A90 (or without the A90) ---- XLR ---- Yamaha HS8 (or KRK rokit 8) Updated drivers Topping from the official site.
I tried with RCA cables I tried with other USB cables (I only have simple cables)
Tried with all the usb ports Only DAC mode or PRE
I decided to enable the onboard sound to test the optical input of the D90. In that case the crackling and popping noises disappear.
Everything is grounded. I never had any problems with my Focusrite USB audio interfaces.
I ordered a usb cable from Amazon, which claims to be 4N copper, I don't know if this has any real benefits.
Normally, I would have returned. But I bought it from Aliexpress and I live in Brazil (the country where people are dying like flies). This makes it very complicated. The cable I ordered from Amazon cost more than twice as much in fees.
So, any tips? Thanks.
Video:

The noise is coming from the PC and carried out through the USB cable 2 wires carrying USB power/ground (unneeded anyway) to the D90 and from there into the A90 and out your headphones/speakers.

I have a number of posts here in this thread on my efforts to remove the noise I heard when using the RCA port of the A90, including PC GPU noise from Cuda Compute and Gaming coming through the PC USB cable.

After I removed all of the other noise sources, the last noise mitigation solution came down to the little orange $49.99 iFi iDefender+ USB dongle - I needed both the USB-A to USB-A and USB-C to USB-A - I have two DACs connected via USB to my PC, the main thing the iFi iDefender+ does is to Interrupt the USB power pair, the 5V positive/ground pair, and for those that need that a USB carried 5V to power their DAC/DAP the iFi Defender+ has a 5V USB-C connector to inject "external" 5V power. I used the iFi iPower X as the external power supply for my testing, you use what you think best for you.

I've answered this at length recently on head-fi, check out the back and forth there along with iFi's responses, in case you have more questions.

And, also answered long ago as the last response in this post here in this thread:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d90-balanced-usb-dac-review.10519/post-575395

This video shows the iDefender+ stopping someone's PC GPU noise from getting through to his Speakers, and this link jumps to the part just before the demo without the iDefender+, after inserting the iDefender+, and then without the iDefender+ again...the audio level pickup on the Buzz noise is low, so please turn up the volume when the demo starts:

 

[Veri]

Amir pretty much always tests 5V DACs with a cheap small freebie Samsung charger, which work totally fine. Those iFi iPower things don't seem worth investing in in any case. The iDefender works, but I don't believe it works different from a €12 cable like this:
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dc-p...e-for-55-21mm-female-power-supply-p-8332.html

 

[hmscott]

Amir pretty much always tests 5V DACs with a cheap small freebie Samsung charger, which work totally fine. Those iFi iPower things don't seem worth investing in in any case. The iDefender works, but I don't believe it works different from a €12 cable like this:
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dc-p...e-for-55-21mm-female-power-supply-p-8332.html

That is a nice cable tweaked to let you inject cleaner power, according to that product page:

"This cable allows the data to be easily separated from the input power of the self-powered DACs. This product is ideal for injecting clean (non-noisy) current into any audio device using the 5V from the USB ports.

They suggest this Linear Power supply to use with that cable, on that product page:

Linear stabilized power supply 5V 5A Squeezebox Touch © Black V3 - Audiophonics

I have a bunch of otherwise noisy Samsung (and other) 5V power supplies that I have tried to use on my radios that use USB power, and those cheap 5v power supplies are all too noisy - too noisy to use to power and listen, only good for charging.

When I use the iFi iPower X as the external power supply for those radios I can listen and charge at the same time. It is clearly putting out cleaner power.

You use whatever power supply you think best for your applications, and so will I.

BTW, have you actually used that USB cable to get rid of PC GPU noise?

If you do test it, please post here as I couldn't find a USB cable with no power wires.