Topping D70s MQA Review (DAC)

[frogmeat69]

I picked the D90 because I wanted a matching set with my A90 amp, not because it sounds better or different than my RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Khadas Tone Board 1 and 2, Topping E-30, or D10s for that matter.

 

[Jimbob54]

It seems to me the “Master Contributors” to this forum only want to have members that believe in measurements and only measurements yet disown their gifted ears.

No, we would like members that recognise their ears/ brain are not as reliable as many think they are and certainly not as reliable as precision equipment. Have your preferences, arrive at them however you see fit, but don't expect a serious response when your posts suggest you can easily tell 2 very well measuring DACs apart. You bring the proof.

I will let you into a little secret though- the standard suite of measurements here may be fallible. Bonus points if you can find the thread that shows something possibly audible that slipped through the net on a (one time) chart topping DAC. Key point though, it was detected by further measurements, not a raft of people claiming the product in question sounded "off".

 

[Nick5]

What the heck has your second section got to do with my post to which you are responding?

@BittyBatman asked a question on D70s vs D90SE. When we tried to provide recommendations and opinions, you and your gangsters interjected and hijacked the discussion by disqualifying our opinions. So I asked you to address the original question of our member and give a reason.

 

[Jimbob54]

@BittyBatman asked a question on D70s vs D90SE. When we tried to provide recommendations and opinions, you and your gangsters interjected and hijacked the discussion by disqualifying our opinions. So I asked you to address the original question of our member and give a reason.

Asked and answered. Now please address the point I made to which you responded with that challenge. I'll reiterate. I even bolded the bit I'd like a specific response on. Helpful, me.

"The measurements suggest in a blind level matched test the D70 and D90 should be indistinguishable. Please provide evidence that you have proven this not to be the case"

 

[Veri]

“Bullshit”??
Thank you for your mannerisms!

It seems to me the “Master Contributors” to this forum only want to have members that believe in measurements and only measurements yet disown their gifted ears.

Okay let's try that again. About your "the number of electrolytic capacitors used dictates the level of perceived smoothness / warmness in any equipment" statement, where did you read about such a thing? Do you have any credible source that can be cited that shows it has been studied and is factually true? Or is this purely anecdotal like all other statements about smoothness or other such descriptors? I mean you've got to realize at some point that sucking whatever comes to mind out of your thumb and introducing it as a truth is not the same as showing it to be true, right??

 

[Veri]

@BittyBatman asked a question on D70s vs D90SE. When we tried to provide recommendations and opinions, you and your gangsters interjected and hijacked the discussion by disqualifying our opinions. So I asked you to address the original question of our member and give a reason.

You're the one hijacking this audio science review of the D70s with subjective head-fi audiophile nonsense. It is entirely reasonable to be challenged. "I know it to be true because I heard it with these ears of mine (and my wife in the kitchen heard it too!)" in and of itself is not enough to get us on board with whatever you suggest to be the analogue "properties" of the D70s. It is nonsense as long as you have nothing to back it up. Not that hard to understand.

 

[Nick5]

@Veri @Jimbob54
I don’t need to prove anything to you. I’m an engineer and own test equipment at home (not APxxx or high accuracy equipment like you do).
What keeps me going is knowing that your an my test equipment were designed by human beings who have brains, ears, and tongues. Gifted people are able to discern differences between DACs, just like certain people who are able to differentiate between good and bad coffee. No one is wrong here. We don’t hear, smell, taste, or even think the same way. Favoring one attribute over the other is not fair or wise. YMMV.

You are welcome to visit my home for some listening session and constructive feedback. Let me know so I can share my private email address for further discussion

 

[Skinner001]

@Veri @Jimbob54
I don’t need to prove anything to you. I’m an engineer and own test equipment at home (not APxxx or high accuracy equipment like you do).
What keeps me going is knowing that your an my test equipment were designed by human beings who have brains, ears, and tongues. Gifted people are able to discern differences between DACs, just like certain people who are able to differentiate between good and bad coffee. No one is wrong here. We don’t hear, smell, taste, or even think the same way. Favoring one attribute over the other is not fair or wise. YMMV.

You are welcome to visit my home for some listening session and constructive feedback. Let me know so I can share my private email address for further discussion

https://imgur.com/hVfZAW2

 

[Jimbob54]

@Veri @Jimbob54
I don’t need to prove anything to you. I’m an engineer and own test equipment at home (not APxxx or high accuracy equipment like you do).
What keeps me going is knowing that your an my test equipment were designed by human beings who have brains, ears, and tongues. Gifted people are able to discern differences between DACs, just like certain people who are able to differentiate between good and bad coffee. No one is wrong here. We don’t hear, smell, taste, or even think the same way. Favoring one attribute over the other is not fair or wise. YMMV.

You are welcome to visit my home for some listening session and constructive feedback. Let me know so I can share my private email address for further discussion

OK- let us try this another way- have you used your test equipment to investigate what elements of the output from these 2 DACs differs sufficiently to explain the difference you hear in these 2 DACs? If not, what the heck is the relevance of mentioning it in this conversation?

Your inability to provide any meaningful rebuttal to specific points raised by myself and others whilst seemingly constantly trying to deflect marks you as a specific type of member.

 

[Nick5]

OK- let us try this another way- have you used your test equipment to investigate what elements of the output from these 2 DACs differs sufficiently to explain the difference you hear in these 2 DACs? If not, what the heck is the relevance of mentioning it in this conversation?

No my test equipment are aimed at analog measurements and not digital.

Your inability to provide any meaningful rebuttal to specific points raised by myself and others whilst seemingly constantly trying to deflect marks you as a specific type of member.

I bought my d70s based on listening sessions at my home and with my own HiFi gear. The good measurements performed by this and other sites were a plus but not the driver behind my final decision.

 

[Jimbob54]

No my test equipment are aimed at analog measurements and not digital.


I bought my d70s based on listening sessions at my home and with my own HiFi gear. The good measurements performed by this and other sites were a plus but not the driver behind my final decision.

You know what comes out of a DAC is analog? I think we are done here.

 

[Nick5]

You know what comes out of a DAC is analog? I think we are done here.

Really? I didn’t know that!!
My test equipment is vintage and don’t go past -85db. I primarily use it to test pre/power amps (courtesy check).

 

[Jimbob54]

Really? I didn’t know that!!
My test equipment is vintage and don’t go past -85db. I primarily use it to test pre/power amps (courtesy check).

So why mention it? Come on Nick, you're gish galloping now

 

[Nick5]

So why mention it? Come on Nick, you're gish galloping now

Mention what Jim?

 

[Jimbob54]

Mention what Jim?

Your equipment. You attempted to bolster your points by referencing your occupation and that you owned audio testing equipment. Now you are saying that equipment couldnt possibly test for differences in these two DACs- so why mention it?

Answer the only question that matters- what testing (of any description) have you done to conclude the D70 has (obvious) audible differences from the D90?

 

[Rottmannash]

I have the OG D70 and will receive the D90SE in a couple weeks. Doubt it will sound any different than the D70, the E30, or the D10B. I just like to buy DACs. But only those that measure well.

 

[Veri]

I have the OG D70 and will receive the D90SE in a couple weeks. Doubt it will sound any different than the D70, the E30, or the D10B. I just like to buy DACs. But only those that measure well.

Collector of DACs

 

[Nick5]

Answer the only question that matters- what testing (of any description) have you done to conclude the D70 has (obvious) audible differences from the D90?

See my response in a previous post:

“I bought my d70s based on listening sessions at my home and with my own HiFi gear. The good measurements performed by this and other sites were a plus but not the driver behind my final decision”

What’s so vague about my response?

 

[Jimbob54]

See my response in a previous post:

“I bought my d70s based on listening sessions at my home and with my own HiFi gear. The good measurements performed by this and other sites were a plus but not the driver behind my final decision”

What’s so vague about my response?

That answers why you trialled and then bought the d70. Which doesn't answer my very simple question to you. Come on.

 

[Nick5]

That answers why you trialled and then bought the d70. Which doesn't answer my very simple question to you. Come on.

Like your persistence . It’s really simple, bring the two DACs at home and audition them in your system to find out which one is a better fit. In my system and to my ears the D70s won by some margin, particularly in the soundstage depth department. Please don’t ask what SS depth means and disqualify my comments. You share your own listening experience without being critical to others.