Topping D70s MQA Review (DAC)

[BittyBatman]

So d70s or the d90se?

 

[Rinaldi Moreira]

So d70s or the d90se?

It depends on several factors and not only your measurements, which for most are the same, but the D70s has a smoother sound and focused on naturalness, whereas the D90SE is focused on details having a more transparent sound. The D70s is also transparent but less so than the D90SE.
Another important factor is the other components of your system, how are you going to use this dac???
And finally, your personal taste, what kind of sound do you like better, natural or detailed???

PS: to this day I don't understand how the vast majority cannot perceive the difference between the 2 dascs, as it is quite evident...

 

[BDWoody]

the D70s has a smoother sound and focused on naturalness, whereas the D90SE is focused on details having a more transparent sound. The D70s is also transparent but less so than the D90SE.

: to this day I don't understand how the vast majority cannot perceive the difference between the 2 dascs, as it is quite evident...

Uh huh.

 

[Jimbob54]

The D70s is also transparent but less so than the D90SE.

For those that like their transparency with a dash of opacity? A smidgen of murk? A grating of grain?

 

[BDWoody]

So d70s or the d90se?

Pick based on features and whatever criteria you may have, but expect no difference in sound quality.

 

[Rinaldi Moreira]

Escolha com base nos recursos e em quaisquer critérios que você possa ter, mas não espere nenhuma diferença na qualidade do som.

If all are the same, what need to measure them and use different components???

As I've already said, good luck with your opinions based by third parties, I'll test and compare to draw my conclusions.

 

[BDWoody]

If all are the same, what need to measure them and use different components???

How do we know if we don't measure them?

There are lots of reasons to choose and match components beyond sound quality.

As I've already said, good luck with your opinions based by third parties, I'll test and compare to draw my conclusions.

Like I said before, thanks, but it isn't a luck thing, nor based on anyone's opinion.

Once you have any actual evidence from all your testing, by all means let's explore it. Otherwise it's just more of the same we get too much of...lots of claims with no evidence.

 

[Rinaldi Moreira]

How do we know if we don't measure them?

There are lots of reasons to choose and match components beyond sound quality.


Like I said before, thanks, but it isn't a luck thing, nor based on anyone's opinion.

Once you have any actual evidence from all your testing, by all means let's explore it. Otherwise it's just more of the same we get too much of...lots of claims with no evidence.

Just out of curiosity, I would like to know what your current DAC is, as you are opining on a device (D70s on the agenda) I believe you have this DAC, if you don't you are being frivolous to opine on the D70s.

If you want images, if you run away from the questioning, you will be one of many... many who talk nonsense without hearing first...

 

[Nick5]

Well well well, our friend Mr. “Uh huh” is back with his intimidating comments. Sorry @BDWoody but had to interject as I’ve seen these comments before and to me personally .
We are not inviting you to convert to the camp who appreciates music and is able to discern differences between equipment. This forum is to share our collective opinions and not to sway them one way or another. The people who ask about a particular equipment are smart enough to make educated decisions after reading comments from both camps but let’s not keep pushing back on each and every opinion made.

@BittyBatman, the D70s and D90SE are two different designs. The former is based on AKM DAC chip and a linear power supply while the latter is based on ESS DAC chip and SMPS. Both measure good but as @Rinaldi Moreira mentioned, the D70s is slightly on the warm and musical side and not as detailed as the d90se. The differences are subtle and the D70s makes me want to listen to music for longer time, such a smooth performer. The design of the power supply and the number of electrolytic capacitors used dictates the level of perceived smoothness / warmness in any equipment.

I’m using my D70s with CA CXN as a streamer/transport coupled with a DIY solid state preamp and a DIY class A amp. I also have Pass Labs X350.5 which is currently parked as I enjoy my diy amp more. Cables are AQ King Cobra and AQ CV-8. I’m extremely happy with the SQ and considering an upgrade to the streamer using Raspberry Pi4 and a hat. Life is too short .

 

[Veri]

the D70s and D90SE are two different designs. The former is based on AKM DAC chip and a linear power supply while the latter is based on ESS DAC chip and SMPS. Both measure good but as @Rinaldi Moreira mentioned, the D70s is slightly on the warm and musical side and not as detailed as the d90se.

Uh-huh.. amazing how you can so confidently state these things, these DAC properties that have never been proven and don't actually exist outside of audio forum/discussion board echo chambers...
Do you think the people producing your music, that mixing/mastering audio engineers give a damn if their interface is using ESS or Cirrus Logic chips? Do you think AKM chips exist only for the audiophile to enjoy his music on the "warm and musical side"?
Spoiler: for the engineer all of these chips will sound the same. Why would it be any different for the enthusiast listening at home? The easy explanation would be that it's all in your imagination, all bias and assumptions...

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...e-as-transparent-are-that-many-confused.9245/ 152 pages of disputing myths and bullshit, see if you have the guts to make your claims there in an appropriate thread.

The design of the power supply and the number of electrolytic capacitors used dictates the level of perceived smoothness / warmness in any equipment.

Holy crap I don't even... again, way to confidently state such bullshit.

 

[Rinaldi Moreira]

Do you think the people producing your music, that mixing/mastering audio engineers give a damn if their interface is using ESS or Cirrus Logic chips? Do you think AKM chips exist only for the audiophile to enjoy his music on the "warm and musical side"?
Spoiler: for the engineer all of these chips will sound the same. Why would it be any different for the enthusiast listening at home? The easy explanation would be that it's all in your imagination, all bias and assumptions..

You didn't report anything new, everyone involved in the audio knows that...

In a perfect world where everything would be according to physics and its principles, every amplifier, dac and cables should play equally without changing the final sound, but the reality is different, the fact that you are unable to perceive the nuances and differences this does not mean that others with better hearing or with a system that can expose this difference cannot hear, you are not the owner of the truth...

Stay in your "perfect" world and empathize with others' opinions.

 

[Jimbob54]

This forum is to share our collective opinions and n not to sway them one way or another. The people who ask about a particular equipment are smart enough to make educated decisions after reading comments from both camps but let’s not keep pushing back on each and every opinion made.

With respect, you are wrong. This is not intended to be another opinion based audiophile circle jerk forum where unsubstantiated opinions transition to become received wisdom.

Uptone ISO Regen Review and Measurements

@Mivera , you gettin' on Minerva.

www.audiosciencereview.com

As written by former (and original) moderator and echoed by site founder and reviewer/ measurer. And yes, further reinforced by current moderator and longtime member @BDWoody .

The measurements suggest in a blind level matched test the D70 and D90 should be indistinguishable. Please provide evidence that you have proven this not to be the case. We are open to evidence, not anecdote.

 

[BDWoody]

This forum is to share our collective opinions and not to sway them one way or another.

Sure, but if they are based on unsupported, anecdotal observations, expect them to be dismissed.

The people who ask about a particular equipment are smart enough to make educated decisions after reading comments from both camps but let’s not keep pushing back on each and every opinion made.

If they are unsupported, like yours, expect them to be pushed back on. Part of why this forum exists is to push back against this nonsense.

Both measure good but as @Rinaldi Moreira mentioned, the D70s is slightly on the warm and musical side and not as detailed as the d90se.

Uh huh...

Ever wonder why our host never performs listening tests on DAC's?

 

[BDWoody]

Just out of curiosity, I would like to know what your current DAC is, as you are opining on a device (D70s on the agenda) I believe you have this DAC, if you don't you are being frivolous to opine on the D70s.

If you want images, if you run away from the questioning, you will be one of many... many who talk nonsense without hearing first...

I have a bunch...but not the D70s. Fortunately, there is no need.

Speaking of talking nonsense, any actual evidence of anything claimed so far?

In a perfect world where everything would be according to physics and its principles, every amplifier, dac and cables should play equally without changing the final sound, but the reality is different, the fact that you are unable to perceive the nuances and differences this does not mean that others with better hearing or with a system that can expose this difference cannot hear, you are not the owner of the truth...

All that's missing is evidence.

So far, the world still adheres to the known laws of physics. Maybe you could be the first to demonstrate ANY of these claims to be true. Otherwise, we will simply point out where you are talking out of someone else's marketing materials.

 

[Skinner001]

Why would it be any different for the enthusiast listening at home? The easy explanation would be that it's all in your imagination, all bias and assumptions...

I can answer this one.
The engineer is an engineer, looks at the numbers, understands what they mean, and understands that his ears are not measurement instruments.

The enthusiast in this case is a religious zealot - delusional, accepting without proof, convincing himself that what he believes is reality. When you think about it, people who swear they've felt the presence of this or that god, seen miracles, ghosts, saints, fairies - they pretty much all sound the same as the audiophile with golden ears - magic and delusion all of it.

Reviewers take advantage of this and so do companies, they all earn their money because of delusions.

And I've seen another point being parroted here "respect other opinions" "empathize" - the world is becoming soft and delicate - no, I do not respect the opinion that the Earth is flat, and I don't respect opinions that disregard all known fact and science.

 

[Nick5]

Uh-huh.. amazing how you can so confidently state these things, these DAC properties that have never been proven and don't actually exist outside of audio forum/discussion board echo chambers...
Do you think the people producing your music, that mixing/mastering audio engineers give a damn if their interface is using ESS or Cirrus Logic chips? Do you think AKM chips exist only for the audiophile to enjoy his music on the "warm and musical side"?
Spoiler: for the engineer all of these chips will sound the same. Why would it be any different for the enthusiast listening at home? The easy explanation would be that it's all in your imagination, all bias and assumptions...

So what’s your recommendation to our friend who asked the question on whether to buy D70s or D90SE?
What would you buy and why?

 

[Nick5]

Holy crap I don't even... again, way to confidently state such bullshit.

“Bullshit”??
Thank you for your mannerisms!

It seems to me the “Master Contributors” to this forum only want to have members that believe in measurements and only measurements yet disown their gifted ears.

 

[Nick5]

With respect, you are wrong. This is not intended to be another opinion based audiophile circle jerk forum where unsubstantiated opinions transition to become received wisdom.

you have proved my earlier point. This forum is a one way street from the looks of it. My suggestion is to remove all members that do not agree with you and call it a day!

The measurements suggest in a blind level matched test the D70 and D90 should be indistinguishable. Please provide evidence that you have proven this not to be the case. We are open to evidence, not anecdote.

So in your system which one you’d choose and why?

 

[Nick5]

If they are unsupported, like yours, expect them to be pushed back on. Part of why this forum exists is to push back against this nonsense.

You are welcome to visit my home for some listening session and constructive feedback. Let me know so I can share my private email address for further discussion.

Uh huh...

Ever wonder why our host never performs listening tests on DAC's?

So in your system which one you’d choose and why?

 

[Jimbob54]

you have proved my earlier point. This forum is a one way street from the looks of it. My suggestion is to remove all members that do not agree with you and call it a day!


So in your system which one you’d choose and why?

As to your first point- yes- one way in that you bring evidence to support unusual claims, you get well received. You bring nothing but anecdote - you get barriers and challenge. Simples

What the heck has your second section got to do with my post to which you are responding? "The measurements suggest in a blind level matched test the D70 and D90 should be indistinguishable. Please provide evidence that you have proven this not to be the case. We are open to evidence, not anecdote."

I interpret your irrelevant response to mean you have nothing at all to support your claim other than sighted listening. What is the relevance of asking me which I would get?

But, to answer your question (I would be grateful if you would do me the same courtesy) : I would have neither, I have little use for a standalone DAC. If you made me buy either or die, I would get the D70 - its cheaper and best I can tell, functionally identical.