Topping D70s MQA Review (DAC)

[Nick5]

Awesome. So we all agree that warm-up time and cable integrity are essential for accurate measurement. This is because passive electronic components need time to reach their optimal operating temperature before making measurements.
Next question is why do you think the above virtues (quality of the cable/connectors, initial warm up time,…etc) have no bearing on the sound quality change?

 

[Doodski]

Awesome. So we all agree that warm-up time and cable integrity are essential for accurate measurement. This is because passive electronic components need time to reach their optimal operating temperature before making measurements.
Next question is why do you think the above virtues (quality of the cable/connectors, initial warm up time,…etc) have no bearing on the sound quality change?

@Nick5 pleaseee get to the point.

 

[Nick5]

I get it now, "This is only a test"!
2nd time today I will use this word that I think you are talking about:
"Dieselgate"

Nope. I’m using your own beliefs to understand and learn at the same time. We all learn new things each day. Questions help us get there.

 

[Doodski]

Nope. I’m using your own beliefs to understand and learn at the same time. We all learn new things each day. Questions help us get there.

The issue with that technique is that it misses the important bits of theory that make a big difference in ideas and can't be explained easily or in brief. Get to the point @Nick5

 

[Nick5]

@Doodski we need to agree on my previous point first or else we’d be wasting our times.
Do we all agree that warm-up time and cable integrity are essential for accurate measurement? By the same token, can the same be applicable to changes in sound quality?

 

[Doodski]

Do we all agree that warm-up time and cable integrity are essential for accurate measurement?

Yes.

By the same token, can the same be applicable to changes in sound quality?

Depends on the quantities and measures.

 

[Nick5]

Depends on the quantities and measures.

I’ll take that as a yes. So we are on the same page that sound quality tend to change due to many reasons such quality of your cables, connectors, warm-up time, etc. I will consider this point closed unless we need to debate further.

Moving on to the next issue of extended time burn/break in. Do you believe that electrolytic caps, currently in abundant use in nearly all electronics, need to be reformed to reach optimal working condition? Also do you know that the majority of HiFi OEMs do not reform these caps prior to use in there electronic equipment?

 

[Doodski]

reformed

I don't understand the term, Reformed." What do you mean?

 

[Nick5]

Here are couple of links to read on the topic:

Reforming Electrolytic Capacitors

Here, you will find articles and information covering British, European and American vintage radios, with a bias to the 1930's and Art Deco. Valve and tube Radio Kits, Transmitters, Receivers and Hobby Kits for Radio enthusiasts.

www.6v6.co.uk

Reforming Electrolytic Capacitors

The Electronic Design Centre - a collection of circuits and ideas for RF Communications and Amateur Radio.

www.qsl.net

Let’s continue this discussion tomorrow. Good night.

 

[Doodski]

Here are couple of links to read on the topic:

Reforming Electrolytic Capacitors

Here, you will find articles and information covering British, European and American vintage radios, with a bias to the 1930's and Art Deco. Valve and tube Radio Kits, Transmitters, Receivers and Hobby Kits for Radio enthusiasts.

www.6v6.co.uk

Reforming Electrolytic Capacitors

The Electronic Design Centre - a collection of circuits and ideas for RF Communications and Amateur Radio.

www.qsl.net

Let’s continue this discussion tomorrow. Good night.

I agree. I'm out for a pipe load of cannabis and a walk about for awhile. Interested to see what you have in store for us here at ASR. I'll read those reforming links when I return.

 

[pseudoid]

Nope. I’m using your own beliefs to understand and learn at the same time. We all learn new things each day. Questions help us get there.

You know what they say "Opinions are like *ssholes; everyone got (at least) one."
Why not just do the yt tut thingy and don't forget to include your CV... for those who want to play games w/you.
[Drops MIC]

 

[amarsicola]

I received my new D70s yesterday and I am pretty satisfied so far.
Look and feel: it is well built and pleasantly heavy but the display is a bit too much understated and oldish.
Sound: improvement versus my Chord Mojo is definitely audible. Bass notes are much more defined, I can hear a lot more details, and soundstage is much more focused. I would say a 15-20% improvement just to give a number.
At max volume it has enough power to drive my amp and speakers to unealthy sound pressure levels, still i expected it to go even further, so the 5v voltage is welcome if you have large rooms and big speakers. Still I doubt whether any preamp is really needed if you are only using digital sources.
My current setup: Allo digione > Topping D70s > Nuprime ST-10 > Revel F208

 

[Michiel]

Also I found out that the D70s benefits slightly from a decent power cord. I’m currently using a diy DH Labs power cable (6 ft long) and it made a small improvement in extension at both frequency ends, a good indication of a sound power supply design in the D70s which should be immune to variation in power cables.
The other thing to be aware of is that the D70s is sensitive to the quality of the incoming signal from the streamer and the overall quality of the network signal. I’ve made few tweaks that helped boost the performance of the D70s to another level.

Have you thought about the fact the wires in the wall running from the wall socket to the house main fuse box are still the same simple wires? Can’t imagine changing those last 6 ft has any effect. ;-)

 

[Nick5]

@Michiel, I hear you loud and clear. What you mentioned is what a typical engineer would think (me included) but there are too many phenomena in the world of acoustics that we can’t explain electrically. Measurements typically give you a snapshot of the device performance and not when it’s processing music. Measurements also don’t give us a clue about impedance interaction between the last 6ft of power cable and the device’s power supply. Also measurements can not explain why there’s a variation in timbre and soundstage width/depth between DACs, Amps, Preamps, etc. As far as I’m aware there is no electrical measurement for timbre and soundstage except our ears which makes us (human beings) way more advanced compared to other creations.

 

[BDWoody]

Can’t imagine changing those last 6 ft has any effect. ;-)

Don't underestimate what can be imagined!

So many claims...so little evidence.

 

[Nick5]

This goes back to the previous discussion. Are you an audiophile able to differentiate the sound between various DACs, amps, speakers, etc?
If you are then how do you electrically measure soundstage and timbre? The fact that we don’t currently have a mechanism for such a measurement does not mean that all equipment sound the same or cables don’t make a difference.

 

[BDWoody]

Are you an audiophile able to differentiate the sound between various DACs, amps, speakers, etc?
If you are then how do you electrically measure soundstage and timbre?

Between competent electronics, used within their appropriate limits, no. I also don't believe I've seen evidence of anyone being able to do so. I've seen lots of claims of such though, much like you have claims with nothing but belabored thought exercises stretched beyond meaning to make leaps that aren't warranted.

If you have no actual evidence, saying the same thing over and over won't help make your case. Show one instance where someone can reliably identify an electronic component that cant be explained through measurements. Evidence.

Speakers and any transducer really are part of a completely different discussion.

 

[Rinaldi Moreira]

This goes back to the previous discussion. Are you an audiophile able to differentiate the sound between various DACs, amps, speakers, etc?
If you are then how do you electrically measure soundstage and timbre? The fact that we don’t currently have a mechanism for such a measurement does not mean that all equipment sound the same or cables don’t make a difference.

Don't waste your time with these people, they certainly don't know and have never heard a sound stage, timbre, stage depth and other features that a good system can deliver or highlight...

For them ignorance is a virtue within this hobby...

 

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Let me give you a good personal example of why some types of subjective opinions are frowned upon here. Many, many years ago in the early days of audio forums, I use to put stock into subjective opinions like these. This led to me wasting thousands on audio equipment that I ended up not liking .

Though measurements don’t always tell the complete story, I’ve never had a piece of equipment that measured good, sound bad. But have had several where measurements weren’t good, that did sound bad. Measurements are to be taken as a guide to at least get something that’s solid with good engineering, that will sound the way it’s suppose to.

Playing the devils advocate, what parts of the story do measurements fail to tell?

I have seen a few reviews here where a piece of gear tests well but doesn't get a a good subjective review and isn't recommended.

I don't know what all the answers are here in this objective/subjective debate other than to say that if subjectivity wasn't a factor why would subjective opinions be included audio science review?

Not trying to single you out my friend, just picked your post (lucky you lol) to respond to as it seemed to dovetail into my opening question.

 

[BDWoody]

I have seen a few reviews here where a piece of gear tests well but doesn't get a a good subjective review and isn't recommended.

Honestly curious...can you point me to a few that you are referring to?