Topping D70s MQA Review (DAC)

[vadwiser]

Got the d70s DAC yesterday. Paired nicely with the A90. Its a bit bigger than the A90 but works fine when I put the amp on top of the DAC. Using balanced connection. Fixed the issue I had with noisy USB with my previous D50s paired with the A90. Set it to -1.5dB on the volume (Saw wolf got better measurements using -1.5 compared to amirm using -2.0).

Hi, mate! I am in almost the same setup, just added D70sMQA (not replaced D50s, I cant give that up, its a jewel) and planning to get the A90 ( if there will be no A70s in sight soon). I wonder what is that noisy USB you are talking about... Have you had used the D50s with linear source (P50)? I cant find any problems on mine so far...

 

[Veri]

( if there will be no A70s in sight soon).

Nope. It is L30 / A50s / A30 Pro / A90 (> A90 Pro some day??). No amplifier in the _70 range is planned at the moment,

 

[vadwiser]

Nope. It is L30 / A50s / A30 Pro / A90 (> A90 Pro some day??). No amplifier in the _70 range is planned at the moment,

No one saw the D70sMQA coming either

 

[Bruzur]

I have had neither of those issues, but I also practice the industry standard order of powering up and powering down a system due to years of it being drilled in my head.
On is from source to output. Off is from output to source.
So I have never had the chance to hear it because I turn on my amp after the DAC is on.
I start from my computer, then DAC, then Amp, then plug in my headphones. And I work backwards when powering down. Or I skip the computer if I am going bluetooth through my phone.

I don't experience any energy drain issues that I can detect.

I read this and laughed when I realized that it perfectly described my process.

 

[Rottmannash]

I think the problem is with my tube amplifier. The amp already introduces a little distortion to the sound as you know, but I'm already used to that distortion with a digital source. However, if you pair it with the D70s the distortion is even greater due to its inherent warmth and analog sounding. It is possible that with a solid state amp the D70s would be much more enjoyable for me. So, I didn't say before that the D70s is worse than the D90, just that the D70s is not a good match for my tube amp and my ears. And I insist: they don't sound exactly the same if you have the right equipment to reveal this difference (Sandu is absolutely right with his review).

PS. I forgot to say that both DACs had the same configuration: Preamp mode OFF (pure DAC mode), Bluetooth OFF, PCM Filter Mode 3, and only USB input and XLR output were enabled. So test conditions were exactly the same.

Is filter 3 the same filter?

 

[Rottmannash]

Without taking sides in the discussion, in my system the Soncoz SGD1 and the D70S sound differently, one of the two (I do not specify which) is leaner in the lower frequencies (bass) with more presence and "grit" with voices and the other is more present in the lower frequencies and more even in the "presence" frequencies. It is not a matter of output level, as they are in the same ballpark, but of frequencies presentation. Of course, same cables, same songs, same pre input and cd player benchmark in A/B mode.

I do not know if @boblo allowed proper run-in as both the Soncoz and the D70S changed a bit over the first weeks of usage, acquiring some "roundness".

Having said that, they both are very capable and enjoyable machines, probably each more at ease with specific types of music and less with other. And also system's bass performance might lean towards one or the other.

Now please fry me. No OGM oil, if possible.

M

Run in??

 

[gonzoznog]

For anyone interested, on the D70s the "Pure DAC mode" does indeed bypass internal PCM conversion, allowing for bit-perfect Native DSD. Just got an email confirmation from Topping.
Probably a dumb question, but I was wondering if anyone has heard both the D70 and the D70s and describe whether or not they sound any different.
I know they are both described as having a very clean, detailed sound. However, I seem to recall reviewers saying the bass on the D70 was detailed, but slightly less emphasized [and maybe not it's forte], while many reviewers say the D70s has very good bass extension and is well represented [not over- or under-emphasized].
One last question, how would this compare with a Gustard X16 as fas as spatial cues, imaging and sound-stage? I have read of folks saying they thought the X16 was a bit 2-Dimensional sounding while several reviews of the D70s said it had nice spatial abilities and wide sound-stage. Would anyone who has heard both be able to weigh in? Thanks!

 

[MBL'er]

Run in??

Yes, @Rottmannash, as to allow - probably - the electrolyte liquid in the capacitors to settle under current flow and other parts reacting to temperature to adapt to operating conditions (thermal expansion, a property of metals).

The overall effect is quite subtle compared to, for example, loudspeakers which have moving parts, but if you were present when my out-of-the-box D70S was compared to my friend's one month old D70S - both connected to an extremely resolving tube system - I think you too would had isolated some differences in the treble peaks and bass control, which made my friend's unit a bit smoother than the new one.

That comparison has been made in the studio of a friend, a member of ASR, who designs and builds high quality tube amps which he personally tunes to perfection before delivery. He has excellent sonic memory and ability to "local" listening, and pointed at differences between the two units which in my "global" listening were difficult to pick.

I hope to have defined "context", without which some claims may sound vague.

Best regards,

M

 

[DHT 845]

Yes, @Rottmannash, as to allow - probably - the electrolyte liquid in the capacitors to settle under current flow and other parts reacting to temperature to adapt to operating conditions (thermal expansion, a property of metals).
M

These are very subtle changes and probably overrated. In my experience for ex. in modding tube gear much more can be obtained when doubling or multiplying capacitance in some places. The same in DAC output stage or in the PS. Counting on serious burn-in changes is rather futile.

As far as d70s sound is im my opinion opposite to being tiring, it is musical in sense of palpability, not offensive but very clean high frequencies, very "hi-end like" midrange with fullness, great presence, imaging and absolutely no "grit", just opposite - liquidity and density, I was very surprised by this inexpensive DAC because IMO it has many traits of very expensive gear like MBL, reymio, CEC and few others, maybe even better in some areas. It shows great progress in digital technology for sure.

 

[MBL'er]

These are very subtle changes and probably overrated. In my experience for ex. in modding tube gear much more can be obtained when doubling or multiplying capacitance in some places. The same in DAC output stage or in the PS. Counting on serious burn-in changes is rather futile.

As far as d70s sound is im my opinion opposite to being tiring, it is musical in sense of palpability, not offensive but very clean high frequencies, very "hi-end like" midrange with fullness, great presence, imaging and absolutely no "grit", just opposite - liquidity and density, I was very surprised by this inexpensive DAC because IMO it has many traits of very expensive gear like MBL, reymio, CEC and few others, maybe even better in some areas. It shows great progress in digital technology for sure.

Overrated or not burn-in changes might be, my friend and myself highly rate and enjoy the D70S over very reputed and expensive dacs we both own or have access to.

As you point out, the D70S performance is very "musical" in the proper sense of the word, without any listening fatigue and with an impressive level of details.

I use the D70S in my MBL - Dynaudio system, which does not hide or mask anything, and it perfectly integrates.

Best regards,

M

 

[DHT 845]

I use the D70S in my MBL - Dynaudio system, which does not hide or mask anything, and it perfectly integrates.

Good to hear such opinion from person owning MBL. I have very high respect for MBL, for me it is company that makes top sounding equipment, not cheap but really special, for true music lovers. And saying that I must emphasize that I am very critical to many so called hi-end companies.

 

[gonzoznog]

Mine just arrived. I definitely think this better than the D70 I had, although I am going from memory. The biggest difference that's immediately noticeable to me is the better extension and slam to the bass. Definitely enjoying it so far, especially with DSD. I plan on running a Pi2AES > AES or IIS for PCM and USB from Pi4 for DSD in the future. I think this one is a keeper!

 

[MBL'er]

Mine just arrived. I definitely think this better than the D70 I had, although I am going from memory. The biggest difference that's immediately noticeable to me is the better extension and slam to the bass. Definitely enjoying it so far, especially with DSD. I plan on running a Pi2AES > AES or IIS for PCM and USB from Pi4 for DSD in the future. I think this one is a keeper!

Glad to read that the D70S is better than the D70.

A friend gave a look at the D70S board and found some design similarities to a 20K Linn DAC. Probably the D70S is a new branch in the Topping products line which could eventually lead to things like a D90S.

I have a suggestion: if you can find a returnable sample, try the Wireworld Ultraviolet 8 USB cable. In my system, the Ultraviolet maximises the merits of the D70S: improvements in the lower bass presence and articulation, extension of stage depth and details rendition in the "presence zone" (like what I call "materials coloration"), control of sybilants. All of that without any listening fatigue or "treble ringing". Listening to guitar was like having my ears next to the player's fingers.

The Ultraviolet was tested over several days alongside the Audioquest's Pearl and Cinnamon, Oehlbach Primus and Amazon Basics. The Cinnamon had the most trebel details with an "open image" effect, but bass was overly dry and such combination brought listening fatigue. The Pearl was similar to the Ultraviolet, but with less bass presence and quality and treble details, the Oehlbach was bland in every area, the Amazon had more bass than the others but with less control and a sort of "grey veil" over voices (at 7 Euros it is great). The Usb cable supplied with the D70S is not even worth trying. Differences were obviously subtle, but Cinnamon's listening fatigue was definitely there.

I have to add that my system is very transparent and does not keep anything for itself: a good recording sounds extremely good and a bad one sounds awful.

Before doing this test I was a bit skeptic about sonic differences of "digital" cables, and asked two friends to run the same test. Even the most skeptical, and engineer with a monster AR system, had in the end to agree that probaly digital cables one way or another degrade the theoretical performance of the usb interface and we choose among them.

Best,

M

 

[caught gesture]

Glad to read that the D70S is better than the D70.

A friend gave a look at the D70S board and found some design similarities to a 20K Linn DAC. Probably the D70S is a new branch in the Topping products line which could eventually lead to things like a D90S.

Later this afternoon we will make a side by side test between the D70S and the D90.

I have a suggestion: if you can find a returnable sample, try the Wireworld Ultraviolet 8 USB cable. In my system, the Ultraviolet maximises the merits of the D70S: improvements in the lower bass presence and articulation, extension of stage depth and details rendition in the "presence zone" (like what I call "materials coloration"), control of sybilants. All of that without any listening fatigue or "treble ringing". Listening to guitar was like having my ears next to the player's fingers.

The Ultraviolet was tested over several days alongside the Audioquest's Pearl and Cinnamon, Oehlbach Primus and Amazon Basics. The Cinnamon had the most trebel details with an "open image" effect, but bass was overly dry and such combination brought listening fatigue. The Pearl was similar to the Ultraviolet, but with less bass presence and quality and treble details, the Oehlbach was bland in every area, the Amazon had more bass than the others but with less control and a sort of "grey veil" over voices (at 7 Euros it is great). The Usb cable supplied with the D70S is not even worth trying. Differences were obviously subtle, but Cinnamon's listening fatigue was definitely there.

I have to add that my system is very transparent and does not keep anything for itself: a good recording sounds extremely good and a bad one sounds awful.

Before doing this test I was a bit skeptic about sonic differences of "digital" cables, and asked two friends to run the same test. Even the most skeptical, and engineer with a monster AR system, had in the end to agree that probaly digital cables one way or another degrade the theoretical performance of the usb interface and we choose among them.

Best,

M

Double-blind testing standards were adhered to in this test of digital cables? As an aside, your engineer friend‘s opinion is only valid if he/she uses tests that remove bias. As Carl Sagan said, One of the great commandments of science is, "Mistrust arguments from authority." ... Too many such arguments have proved too painfully wrong. Authorities must prove their contentions like everybody else.

 

[Veri]

I have a suggestion: if you can find a returnable sample, try the Wireworld Ultraviolet 8 USB cable. In my system, the Ultraviolet maximises the merits of the D70S: improvements in the lower bass presence and articulation, extension of stage depth and details rendition in the "presence zone" (like what I call "materials coloration"), control of sybilants. All of that without any listening fatigue or "treble ringing". Listening to guitar was like having my ears next to the player's fingers.

The Ultraviolet was tested over several days alongside the Audioquest's Pearl and Cinnamon, Oehlbach Primus and Amazon Basics. The Cinnamon had the most trebel details with an "open image" effect, but bass was overly dry and such combination brought listening fatigue. The Pearl was similar to the Ultraviolet, but with less bass presence and quality and treble details, the Oehlbach was bland in every area, the Amazon had more bass than the others but with less control and a sort of "grey veil" over voices (at 7 Euros it is great). The Usb cable supplied with the D70S is not even worth trying. Differences were obviously subtle, but Cinnamon's listening fatigue was definitely there.

I have to add that my system is very transparent and does not keep anything for itself: a good recording sounds extremely good and a bad one sounds awful.

Come on.........

 

[DHT 845]

 

[MBL'er]

Come on.........

ahahah, you’re right, variety is the spice of life.

To give some context to my claims, I add that it’s almost three decades that I audition and test audio gear. Got my protocols, I put my money and time on that, let’s say I know what I’m doing, and how.

But I understand that system tuning is not on everybody frequency range, I respect any opinion. I like to laugh with people, not about people.

I add something more.

Yesterday I went to my hifi designer friend studio. I met three guys, all deep into expensive gear. One was a professional bass player.

They brought a Topping D90 to be tested side by side my friend’s D70S.

One might expect that given respective measurements, D90 and D70D should “sound” exactly the same.

They do not.

We played a wide ranged material, from pop to jazz to classical. Even an incredible Sacd with Sarasate’s Carmen Fantasy, in which I could detect the individual horse hairs striking the violin strings.

Should I go on ?

M

 

[Urbs]

ahahah, you’re right, variety is the spice of life.

To give some context to my claims, I add that it’s almost three decades that I audition and test audio gear. Got my protocols, I put my money and time on that, let’s say I know what I’m doing, and how.

But I understand that system tuning is not on everybody frequency range, I respect any opinion. I like to laugh with people, not about people.

I add something more.

Yesterday I went to my hifi designer friend studio. I met three guys, all deep into expensive gear. One was a professional bass player.

They brought a Topping D90 to be tested side by side my friend’s D70S.

One might expect that given respective measurements, D90 and D70D should “sound” exactly the same.

They do not.

We played a wide ranged material, from pop to jazz to classical. Even an incredible Sacd with Sarasate’s Carmen Fantasy, in which I could detect the individual horse hairs striking the violin strings.

Should I go on ?

M

Please do lol, I'm in the boat of deciding between a d70s and d90 and would appreciate your insight. Even if I do think any cable testing should be done in a blind test to validate results hehe.

 

[caught gesture]

ahahah, you’re right, variety is the spice of life.

To give some context to my claims, I add that it’s almost three decades that I audition and test audio gear. Got my protocols, I put my money and time on that, let’s say I know what I’m doing, and how.

But I understand that system tuning is not on everybody frequency range, I respect any opinion. I like to laugh with people, not about people.

I add something more.

Yesterday I went to my hifi designer friend studio. I met three guys, all deep into expensive gear. One was a professional bass player.

They brought a Topping D90 to be tested side by side my friend’s D70S.

One might expect that given respective measurements, D90 and D70D should “sound” exactly the same.

They do not.

We played a wide ranged material, from pop to jazz to classical. Even an incredible Sacd with Sarasate’s Carmen Fantasy, in which I could detect the individual horse hairs striking the violin strings.

Should I go on ?

M

Confirmation (of) bias with some false consensus effect stirred in...let’s say!

 

[MBL'er]

Confirmation (of) bias with some false consensus effect stirred in...let’s say!

Not really, my friend.

I do not have any confirmation bias - I am cold as a fish when I evaluate. Not only audio gear, which is just a hobby.

I would suggest, try by yourself. or are you satisfied by what you read or see ?