Topping D50 III Balanced DAC with EQ Review

[Dandelion]

Could you point to some reference paper or formulas on how biquad filters should work? It seems that the RBJ formulae’s are widely used, including in EQ APO. So, even if they are wrong, aren’t they an accepted PEQ implementation?

It’s not about biquads, forget RBJ or formulas, doesn't matter for the sake of cramping, you could use other filter design to make bells and shelves and you would still fight with cramping if you don’t oversample or compensate behind the scenes. 2x is sufficient, when I've built my eq I opted for linear oversampling, even doing very wide and big boosts via bells or shelves the eq stays as it's supposed to be. Btw in DSP engineering everybody knows that IIR biquad = sounds bad, but that's beyond the scope of this. It became a widely used design because easy and gets the job done. That's why I never cared about the toy eq these products put on board, yes is better than nothing, yes is usable, but if you have pro software and use your dac with a computer don't bother with it. Also EQ acts on transients and generates phase rotations (if minimum phase) which can cause issues with music having a lot of stereo information, as well bands can be in parallel or serial which changes everything as well. Using eq to fix the sound of devices can be a net positive, but there's always trade-offs involved, that's why I always implore people to be conservative and not count on correcting curves too much but rather get good fundamentals in (good room acoustics and good listening devices).

 

[Leonm771]

yesterday the d50iii finally arrived.
It was for replacing fiio k3.
One thing I'm satisfied, no more disconnection.
I noticed that there is no audio quality difference , except the volume , isn't it because of fiio k3 is 1.9Vrms on Line Level"? and d50iii is 2.5Vrms (RCA)
and which filter sound the best?

 

[dtd]

Has anyone else here notice sound cutouts with their D50III? Suddenly all sound stops... I am using a A50III/D50III combo, and assume it is the D50III that is at fault, because if I switch input from usb -> to whatever -> back to usb the sound comes back again. Also this is happening not to often. Maybe once every two weeks, and usually I am working 8h a day + I maybe spend 2-6h a week on my computer in addition to work.

 

[T.T.]

Has anyone else here notice sound cutouts with their D50III? Suddenly all sound stops... I am using a A50III/D50III combo, and assume it is the D50III that is at fault, because if I switch input from usb -> to whatever -> back to usb the sound comes back again. Also this is happening not to often. Maybe once every two weeks, and usually I am working 8h a day + I maybe spend 2-6h a week on my computer in addition to work.

do you power it from PC only? I think it could be insufficient USB power, try to power it externally.
I use thunderbolt and it had no hiccups so far (2 weeks of daily use).

 

[dtd]

do you power it from PC only? I think it could be insufficient USB power, try to power it externally.
I use thunderbolt and it had no hiccups so far (2 weeks of daily use).

Yes I do, but would not insufficient power lead to «constant issues»? And issues with the unit turning off etc? But I guess it’s worth a shot

 

[T.T.]

Yes I do, but would not insufficient power lead to «constant issues»? And issues with the unit turning off etc? But I guess it’s worth a shot

based on the D50III spec even USB 2.0 (5V/0.5A) should suffice and USB 3.0 (5V/0.9A) should be plenty. But these are maximum values, it could momentarily underpower depending on what is going on with PC.

 

[T.T.]

hi all, my observations after couple of weeks.

#1: PC/Foobar ASIO > thunderbolt > D50III > TRS/XLR > 3E Audio A5 > Ascilab C6B
#2: PC > USB > SMSL PO100 PRO > toslink > D50III > TRS/XLR > 3E Audio A5 > Ascilab C6B

I am generally satisfied with the operation, it is responsive and does what it is supposed to do, so I will elaborate more on my reservations.

1) I was aware of missing volume per source memory, but I relied on the two user modes C1/C2 to substitute that and it almost does meet the expectation. My use case scenario: I listen to music while working, when I have a call I pause and switch the source, then switch back and resume. And that does not quite work. The problem is that when you switch the modes it kind of resets, so on resume the foobar pops an error. Not a huge problem, just instead of pause/resume you need to stop playback and play the track from the start. I needed to get used to that (note that I don't always switch source on the monitor, so I resumed the playback "blind" with secondary mouse set on play/resume )

2) The display is only just big enough so I can see what I need at quick glance. Being recessed it gives an impression of constraint. Manual says it is OLED but no way, you can clearly see backlight in standby, which is a bit annoying. I would prefer if I could turn it off completely.

3) The feet can barely be called that, I had to replace them immediately as it is stacked on top of the amp.

PS: I have not yet tried Topping PEQ, I have been using EasyQ VST in Foobar and APO in Windows for years, and 10 parameters are not enough to reproduce my presets.

 

[Big White]

Will PEQ be available on the optical output with a future FW update?

 

[TurtlePaul]

Will PEQ be available on the optical output with a future FW update?

No. I believe that Topping indicated that the PEQ is processed on the USB chip and the other inputs bypass that chip.

 

[ziggurcat]

Will PEQ be available on the optical output with a future FW update?

There is no plan to make any other inputs available for the D50 III. If you want that, get the DX5 II.

 

[dtd]

I saw that the on the dx5ii one can re-map the volume knob button to switch PEQ preset. Does anyone know if something similar can be done with the d50iii with an software update? For example, I never use the mute function, so remapping the joystick click would be nice. Or if topping reads this thread or where one can suggest this? I recently went from one hp to two hp + IEM, and switching between 3 can get a bit annoying since the EQ choice is pretty far down in the menu…

 

[ziggurcat]

I saw that the on the dx5ii one can re-map the volume knob button to switch PEQ preset. Does anyone know if something similar can be done with the d50iii with an software update?

It cannot be done with the D50 III.

 

[Earwax]

Can anyone confirm if using the D50 III Pre amp mode degrades audio quality compared to using the DAC only mode ?

I have experienced a higher volume level using only the Dac mode.

Max volume level in Pre Amp mode is much lower than Dac mode...

 

[dtd]

It cannot be done with the D50 III.

Do you mean now or ever? Because I know it cannot be done now, but was wondering if it is possible with a software update, but I am not sure how to get in touch with topping to ask them directly/leave suggestions for them

 

[Marci81]

Hi everyone, I recently purchased the Topping D50III hoping it would have a more refined analog output stage than the D10s. The purchase turned out to be a complete disaster: all the high frequencies have become harsh and sibilant, every pronounced “S” feels like a stab in the eardrums. I can’t understand how this is possible. I have various sources, and with none of them—using the same track and audio system—does this problem occur.

 

[ziggurcat]

Do you mean now or ever? Because I know it cannot be done now, but was wondering if it is possible with a software update, but I am not sure how to get in touch with topping to ask them directly/leave suggestions for them

There hasn't been a FW update for the D50 III in nearly a year, so the answer is probably ever. You can always try to contact Topping ([email protected]), but I doubt you'll get anything more than a "thanks for the suggestion" response.

 

[ziggurcat]

Can anyone confirm if using the D50 III Pre amp mode degrades audio quality compared to using the DAC only mode ?

It does not.

DAC mode outputs from the DAC at max gain/volume, so you use another device to control that. With pre-amp mode, you'd theoretically use the DAC to control the volume, so you would set your amplifier/other device at max or 80% (depending on your philosophy) gain/volume.

 

[Earwax]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Topping D50 III balanced stereo DAC with support for parametric equalization. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $229.
View attachment 364353
Sorry for the quality of the picture/display. It is quite dim compared to my photography light and when I tried to brighten it, it brought out the chromatic aberrations in my lens. While tiny, it is very sharp and clear white color. Back panel shows the innovation of using 1/4 jacks to bring balanced output in such a small enclosure:
View attachment 364355
The remote is bluetooth so you don't have issues with how you point it. If you are using it as a USB DAC, you can plug that cable to the one labeled USB-C and be good to go. That is how I tested it using the hub in my monitor as I do with all DAC tests. There is auxiliary power input as well if you are not using USB but the S/PDIF options. I *think* you can also use that for higher quality power if your USB is not such.

What distinguishes the D50 III is what is inside: support for up to 10 filters of different types. The app, called Topping Tune, even has nice features like overlaying a target curve. Focus is on headphone use though as there is no way to assign separate EQ to each channel as you would need for Room EQ. You could use it to correct speaker flaws but would be harder to do so for room effects. I hope the company adds per channel capability.

If you are not familiar with my DAC measurements, I recommend this video tutorial on how I test audio DACs:

Topping D50III DAC Measurements
As usual we start with our usual dashboard. Max output defaulted to 5 volts so I used -1.5 dB of attenuation to get it down to nominal 4 volts:

View attachment 364356

We expect state of the art performance from Topping and that is precisely what we get here, easily landing the D50 III in our silly top 20 DACs as far as noise and distortion:
View attachment 364357

Distortion is vanishingly low at -140 dB so we are dominated by noise, which seems to be mostly from my analyzer. Fellow member @Rja4000 measured it with an RME audio interface and managed a SINAD of 124.6. Difference is academic as we are well past point of transparency either way.

RCA performance is a bit worse as usual:
View attachment 364360
But still verifiably transparent.

Here is the performance at lower output levels:
View attachment 364362

Dynamic range even measured with my analyzer is superb:
View attachment 364361

Multitone performance is stunningly good with extremely low and frequency independent distortion:
View attachment 364363

Jitter is super despite "dirty" computer power:
View attachment 364364

Linearity is naturally perfect:
View attachment 364365

IMD distortion is extremely low with tiniest, immaterial hit of "ESS IMD Hump" in one channel:
View attachment 364366

For compatibility with stereophile measurements, here is 50 Hz spectra until 600 ohm load:
View attachment 364367
Great example of how excellent engineering covers all bases seeing how I recently started to run this test with little opportunity for companies to optimize for it.

Wideband THD+N again lets Topping flex its muscles when it comes to superb engineering:
View attachment 364368

We have the usual filter settings (I have optimized this measurement a bit to make it more clear):
View attachment 364369

Mode 3 has the best attenuation without any ringing in out of band noise. Here is the impact on frequency response:
View attachment 364370

Topping D50 III Equalization Measurements
It is difficult to test impact of EQ on our measurements as the mere fact of changing the frequency response impacts the parameters used in the test. As an extreme example, if I put a notch filter at 1 kHz, SINAD test would just show garbage as the main tone is now filtered. To get around this, I programmed two filters in Topping Tune but left them at 0 dB. Here is the outcome:
View attachment 364371

As you see, it made no difference. I then set them to -5 dB with another 5 dB of pre-amp negative gain:
View attachment 364372

The high frequency filter makes no difference but the low frequency one showed variable noise around the 100 Hz frequency of the first filter:
View attachment 364373

That part of the graph would change shape and sometimes go down to no noise only to start again. At no time it rose above -120 dB so completely immaterial audibly. I usually would take the time to give this feedback to the company but in the interest of getting the review out, I figured I go ahead and post it.

BTW, I *think* you can't play and change the EQ settings. I had to stop the analyzer from feeding the DAC before changing the settings. This may be wise as changing filters dynamically can cause glitches.

It also took me a bit to realize that making changes in Topping Tune are immediately communicated to D50 III. I kept looking for a "send" or "update" button and by accident discovered that changes are automatic.

Overall, I was very impressed with fit and finish of the Topping Tune seeing how this is their first attempt at software development. On great addition there would be to be able to update the firmware in the DAC.

Conclusions
Folks, this is a momentous event. The era of state of the art DACs with equalization is upon us! And at incredibly reasonable price. All of your complaining about lack of value add EQ was heard and we are finally there. For those of you not able to perform equalization in the source, you can do that now with nary a cost increase while enjoying the best DAC technology has to offer us. I can imagine the huge R&D costs for Topping to tool up to do all this software development. As the first company whose products impressed me, it is great to see them continue to innovate in not only pure fidelity but also functionality. Today is a happy day for me!

It is my pleasure to recommend Topping D50 III balanced stereo DAC.
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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

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Curious if a possible error was made entering mode 3 to be the best in the frequency response chart. Mode 4 looks more like the color that has the highest score I can`t even see where the color is for mode 3 on the graph unless they change after uploading screen shots ?

 

[danadam]

I can`t even see where the color is for mode 3 on the graph

On the first graph it is the dark cyan ■ here:

On the second graph it hides below the magenta ■ (mode 6):

 

[Earwax]

Thank you for making it clearly observable and understood.