Topping D50 III Balanced DAC with EQ Review

[Dimetrix]

Hi everyone.
Hope someone may help me.
I have PC (usb-A) -> Topping D50 iii (in pre-amp mode) -> Yamaha N-S701 -> Yamaha NS-555 (or headphones Audio-Technica ATH-M50x).
Problem is that sound is really loud. On PC I have to set to 40% of max volume, on DAC to -20dB, on amplifier I can turn max to 12 o'clock till it hurts (7 o'clock is min, 5 - is max rotating clockwise). Usually listen on 9-10 o'clock position.
Installed latest firmware and drivers for Topping, latest updates to win11 and firmware for motherboard.
Reinstalled drivers. Tried different usb ports on pc.
Nothing changes.
If I connect Topping to phone via ucb-c cable sound is much lower even with 100% volume on phone. If I send sound via bluetoth sound is also much lower.
So seems problem is in PC sending too high current.
Earlier I had Audigy 2 ZS in PC. But I removed all software and drivers.
Does anyone have similar behavior? Is it possible to fix? Cause I am anxious that if someday volume on PC jumps to 100% (as well as on DAC to 0dB) I will have fried acoustics (at best) or my ears (at worst).

 

[unpluggged]

If I connect Topping to phone via ucb-c cable sound is much lower even with 100% volume on phone. If I send sound via bluetoth sound is also much lower.
So seems problem is in PC sending too high current.

This is nonsense. I would look elsewhere.

But if your description is correct (i.e. no other variables beside the USB source connected to your DAC), then the behavior is indeed weird. Do you hear any clipping or distortion when the source is your PC?

Does anyone have similar behavior? Is it possible to fix? Cause I am anxious that if someday volume on PC jumps to 100% (as well as on DAC to 0dB) I will have fried acoustics (at best) or my ears (at worst).

And you are right to be concerned:

Topping E70 randomly went to MAX volume..

Not sure what happened but all the sudden the E70 went from -30db or so to 0db. Basically blew out my ears for a few seconds and it was stuck on 0db, I couldn't even lower it. Tried spinning the volume control on the E70 for a few seconds, it was locked at 0db. Afraid to put my windows volume...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Roland68]

Hi everyone.
Hope someone may help me.
I have PC (usb-A) -> Topping D50 iii (in pre-amp mode) -> Yamaha N-S701 -> Yamaha NS-555 (or headphones Audio-Technica ATH-M50x).
Problem is that sound is really loud. On PC I have to set to 40% of max volume, on DAC to -20dB, on amplifier I can turn max to 12 o'clock till it hurts (7 o'clock is min, 5 - is max rotating clockwise). Usually listen on 9-10 o'clock position.
Installed latest firmware and drivers for Topping, latest updates to win11 and firmware for motherboard.
Reinstalled drivers. Tried different usb ports on pc.
Nothing changes.
If I connect Topping to phone via ucb-c cable sound is much lower even with 100% volume on phone. If I send sound via bluetoth sound is also much lower.
So seems problem is in PC sending too high current.
Earlier I had Audigy 2 ZS in PC. But I removed all software and drivers.
Does anyone have similar behavior? Is it possible to fix? Cause I am anxious that if someday volume on PC jumps to 100% (as well as on DAC to 0dB) I will have fried acoustics (at best) or my ears (at worst).

You're on the wrong track. The volume is digitally encoded in the data stream that you send from the PC to the DAC via USB. It's technically impossible for excessive voltage or current to affect the volume.
The DAC only decodes the volume specified in the file.

The output level in your D50 III is probably still set to the default, i.e., 5 volts. Set the output level to 4 volts.

I would also control the volume exclusively via the Yamaha, never via the PC or DAC.

 

[Dimetrix]

Do you hear any clipping or distortion when the source is your PC?

No.

And you are right to be concerned:

Thanks. That's what I am affraid of.

You're on the wrong track. The volume is digitally encoded in the data stream that you send from the PC to the DAC via USB. It's technically impossible for excessive voltage or current to affect the volume.
The DAC only decodes the volume specified in the file.

Got it. Just thought maybe "volume specified in the file" somehow was increased by something interfering in PC.

Set the output level to 4 volts.

I did. The reduction is barely hearable, if any at all.

I would also control the volume exclusively via the Yamaha, never via the PC or DAC.

I do. But problem is that if I set volume 100% on PC and 0dB on DAC (or set it in DAC mode) I almost have no room for control (from 7 to 10 o'clock max which leave for my normal level usage from 8 to 9).

Anyway did additional tests.
First, tried to set volume levels via USB and bluetooth so that they sound similar in volume on the same signal. Got 35% volume on PC = 100% via bluetooth.
Second, took my old laptop, installed Topping drivers (though had to use older version as I have Win7 on laptop) and repeated test above. Strangely got same 35% PC = 100% BT. Tried reinstalling drivers while setting Windows volume to 100% before installation. That changes nothing.

 

[unpluggged]

I do. But problem is that if I set volume 100% on PC and 0dB on DAC (or set it in DAC mode) I almost have no room for control (from 7 to 10 o'clock max which leave for my normal level usage from 8 to 9).

At this point it can be recommended to use passive attenuators at the amp's inputs, since its input sensitivity seems to be higher than would be optimal for your setup.

First, tried to set volume levels via USB and bluetooth so that they sound similar in volume on the same signal. Got 35% volume on PC = 100% via bluetooth.
Second, took my old laptop, installed Topping drivers (though had to use older version as I have Win7 on laptop) and repeated test above. Strangely got same 35% PC = 100% BT. Tried reinstalling drivers while setting Windows volume to 100% before installation. That changes nothing.

This is weird and can be caused either by the DAC itself (unlikely) or by the BT source. Make sure your BT device's volume is maxed out and no loudness normalization is taking place in your player software.

 

[Roland68]

No.

Thanks. That's what I am affraid of.

Got it. Just thought maybe "volume specified in the file" somehow was increased by something interfering in PC.

I did. The reduction is barely hearable, if any at all.

I do. But problem is that if I set volume 100% on PC and 0dB on DAC (or set it in DAC mode) I almost have no room for control (from 7 to 10 o'clock max which leave for my normal level usage from 8 to 9).

Anyway did additional tests.
First, tried to set volume levels via USB and bluetooth so that they sound similar in volume on the same signal. Got 35% volume on PC = 100% via bluetooth.
Second, took my old laptop, installed Topping drivers (though had to use older version as I have Win7 on laptop) and repeated test above. Strangely got same 35% PC = 100% BT. Tried reinstalling drivers while setting Windows volume to 100% before installation. That changes nothing.

You could measure the output voltage at the RCA connectors of the D50 III with a multimeter (AC range) for a 1 kHz signal.

To which input of the A-S701 did you connect the D50 III?

 

[Sokel]

No.

Thanks. That's what I am affraid of.

Got it. Just thought maybe "volume specified in the file" somehow was increased by something interfering in PC.

I did. The reduction is barely hearable, if any at all.

I do. But problem is that if I set volume 100% on PC and 0dB on DAC (or set it in DAC mode) I almost have no room for control (from 7 to 10 o'clock max which leave for my normal level usage from 8 to 9).

Anyway did additional tests.
First, tried to set volume levels via USB and bluetooth so that they sound similar in volume on the same signal. Got 35% volume on PC = 100% via bluetooth.
Second, took my old laptop, installed Topping drivers (though had to use older version as I have Win7 on laptop) and repeated test above. Strangely got same 35% PC = 100% BT. Tried reinstalling drivers while setting Windows volume to 100% before installation. That changes nothing.

That's your amp :

Do we need to say more?
How do you connect them?

 

[Dimetrix]

You could measure the output voltage at the RCA connectors of the D50 III with a multimeter (AC range) for a 1 kHz signal.

Sorry I am dumb at all that questions.
I measured with this setting (hope this is what you meant) and used file with name "1kHz (R+L 0dB)" I found on test CDs. PC was set to 100% volume, DAC to 0dB. One channel showed 1.97-1.98, the other 1.98-1.99.

To which input of the A-S701 did you connect the D50 III?

CD.

Make sure your BT device's volume is maxed out and no loudness normalization is taking place in your player software.

Oh, you are right. There was an option on phone to limit loud signal. With it disabled I have 100% BT = 85% PC volume.

Do we need to say more?
How do you connect them?

Sorry, I don't quite get what that means. Does this mean that DAC gives lower voltage then amp expects (>=2.2V)?
RCA to CD input.

At this point it can be recommended to use passive attenuators at the amp's inputs, since its input sensitivity seems to be higher than would be optimal for your setup.

This is what seems to be a good workaround in this case if everything else is ok. Thanks.

 

[Heat11]

anyone use this between a wiim ultra and vibe amp? asking for a friend

 

[Roland68]

View attachment 452305

Sorry I am dumb at all that questions.
I measured with this setting (hope this is what you meant) and used file with name "1kHz (R+L 0dB)" I found on test CDs. PC was set to 100% volume, DAC to 0dB. One channel showed 1.97-1.98, the other 1.98-1.99.

CD.

Oh, you are right. There was an option on phone to limit loud signal. With it disabled I have 100% BT = 85% PC volume.

Sorry, I don't quite get what that means. Does this mean that DAC gives lower voltage then amp expects (>=2.2V)?
RCA to CD input.


This is what seems to be a good workaround in this case if everything else is ok. Thanks.

Everything looks correct. The approximately 2 volts are exactly what should be coming out. The speakers seem to be more efficient than the data suggests.

@Unplugged's suggestion with the attenuators is probably the most sensible workaround.

 

[Vamp898]

I got this DAC and either my IMD is significantly better, or i am doing something wrong when measuring. Especially as my DI is significantly worse than an APX555, i would have expected much worse values.

This is the IMD i get at -60db


And this is at -80db


This is -95db



And, that is for sure, both measurements were limited by my DI i used to measuring, so i assume the actual results are better.

I am looking forward for the comments telling me what i did wrong but these IMD measurements are significantly better than what Amir got.

For the sake of reference, what i get at 0db (X axis goes to 48k because i forgot to set it to 20k with that one^^)



My Measuring Setup is D50III --> A50III BAL OUT--> BAL IN PreSonus Studio 68c (LINE Setting for 0db, -60db and -80db, Input Signal was too small for -95db on LINE)

 

[Big White]

The PEQ in D50 III is not as effective as the software PEQ, I like treble, but no matter how much I increase the treble in D50 III, it does not affect the sound as much as the PEQ I use in software, for example the PEQ in Moodeaudio is very effective and works well, but the PEQ in D50 III does not work effectively, I use Highshelf because Highshelf lifts the treble line in the graph most , but still not enough.

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

@TOPPING

When will Topping Tune be available for Android?

 

[ziggurcat]

@TOPPING

When will Topping Tune be available for Android?

When I asked them about a MacOS version, they came back with a canned response saying something along the lines of it takes time.

 

[GabrielPhoto]

When I asked them about a MacOS version, they came back with a canned response saying something along the lines of it takes time.

I hope the android version at least get some real attention since it has a much bigger user base but not holding my breath

 

[t1337dude]

The PEQ in D50 III is not as effective as the software PEQ, I like treble, but no matter how much I increase the treble in D50 III, it does not affect the sound as much as the PEQ I use in software, for example the PEQ in Moodeaudio is very effective and works well, but the PEQ in D50 III does not work effectively, I use Highshelf because Highshelf lifts the treble line in the graph most , but still not enough.

I'm curious if it has something to do with your actual EQ settings. Would you care to share a screenshot of your DS50 III's EQ settings, and then the software PEQ? I'm not doubting you, but I would like to see more if possible.

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

I've connected the D50iii to my S25 Ultra smartphone. Is it really beneficial to run it with a separate power supply?

 

[VientoB]

I've connected the D50iii to my S25 Ultra smartphone. Is it really beneficial to run it with a separate power supply?

Are you powering it with your smartphone???

 

[Bow_Wazoo]

Not yet. I'd be interested to know, if and to what extent the measurement results change, if you don't use an external power supply.

 

[VientoB]

Not yet. I'd be interested to know, if and to what extent the measurement results change, if you don't use an external power supply.

I dont think a smartphone could power it as it requires 5V and 1A?