Topping D50 III Balanced DAC with EQ Review

[canthelptinkering]

I just bought this DAC. The sound is great, very transparent. I have a couple of issues though.
(1) I can't update the firmware. My unit is v1.21. I downloaded the software which includes V1.31 and V1.35. I installed the drivers. With the unit turned on. I have tried using about 5 different USB cables and three different computers, the progress bar doesn't go beyond the word "exit" before it eventually says firmware upgrade failed. Any ideas? I contacted the seller to see what they say.
(2) The display screen is a bit annoying. I don't need to see the volume all the time because I am not using it as a preamp. Is there a way to get it to always show the frequency instead?

 

[johny_2000]

(2) The display screen is a bit annoying. I don't need to see the volume all the time because I am not using it as a preamp. Is there a way to get it to always show the frequency instead?

Yes, go to device settings and change "Mode" from 'Pre' to 'DAC'.

(1) I can't update the firmware. My unit is v1.21. I downloaded the software which includes V1.31 and V1.35. I installed the drivers. With the unit turned on. I have tried using about 5 different USB cables and three different computers, the progress bar doesn't go beyond the word "exit" before it eventually says firmware upgrade failed. Any ideas?

I had no problem updating the firmware. First try the last option in the device settings called "Factory reset". After it has completed the reset to default settings, go to the Device Manager in Windows to confirm that the device and its driver are recognized successfully.

Then go to the firmware update tool. Try running it in administrator mode, just in case some access rights were restricted by Windows security.

First update to version 1.31, then install version 1.35.

Also check this post.

 

[Southernsounds]

I just bought this DAC. The sound is great, very transparent. I have a couple of issues though.
(1) I can't update the firmware. My unit is v1.21. I downloaded the software which includes V1.31 and V1.35. I installed the drivers. With the unit turned on. I have tried using about 5 different USB cables and three different computers, the progress bar doesn't go beyond the word "exit" before it eventually says firmware upgrade failed. Any ideas? I contacted the seller to see what they say.
(2) The display screen is a bit annoying. I don't need to see the volume all the time because I am not using it as a preamp. Is there a way to get it to always show the frequency instead?

The first few days with our new devices are always complicated, because we are not familiar with their behavior and many things seem abnormal to us. Even worse when the instructions are not clear, often due to a bad translation.

Don't forget to install the drivers before updating. That may be your problem. Let us know if it worked for you, thanks.

EDIT: Oh, sorry, I saw you installed them. So I'll be waiting to see what problem you have...

 

[canthelptinkering]

Yes, go to device settings and change "Mode" from 'Pre' to 'DAC'.

I had no problem updating the firmware. First try the last option in the device settings called "Factory reset". After it has completed the reset to default settings, go to the Device Manager in Windows to confirm that the device and its driver are recognized successfully.

Then go to the firmware update tool. Try running it in administrator mode, just in case some access rights were restricted by Windows security.

First update to version 1.31, then install version 1.35.

Also check this post.

So I managed to get it to work finally. I uninstalled the drivers and reinstalled them. I rebooted before trying the firmware upgrade. I accidentally put the DAC in DFU mode and attempted to install the firmware and it worked. Strangely, I have attempted to install the firmware in DFU mode before but with no success.

A nice side effect of updating the firmware is that the display has changed so I don't see "O db" all the time

 

[Southernsounds]

So I managed to get it to work finally. I uninstalled the drivers and reinstalled them. I rebooted before trying the firmware upgrade. I accidentally put the DAC in DFU mode and attempted to install the firmware and it worked. Strangely, I have attempted to install the firmware in DFU mode before but with no success.

A nice side effect of updating the firmware is that the display has changed so I don't see "O db" all the time

I'm inclined to think that reinstalling the drivers did the trick. Hasn't your DAC been stuck in DFU mode every time you reboot it?

 

[canthelptinkering]

I'm inclined to think that reinstalling the drivers did the trick. Hasn't your DAC been stuck in DFU mode every time you reboot it?

I'm inclined to think that reinstalling the drivers did the trick. Hasn't your DAC been stuck in DFU mode every time you reboot it?

No its not stuck in DFU. I did go back into DFU mode once, I just unplugged it and it booted up normally.

I did about three factory resets before the firmware update worked, which might have helped. I spent about 5 hours messing around in total. Still now I am very happy. Thanks to Southernsounds and Johny_2000 for your suggestions.

 

[Southernsounds]

No its not stuck in DFU. I did go back into DFU mode once, I just unplugged it and it booted up normally.

I did about three factory resets before the firmware update worked, which might have helped. I spent about 5 hours messing around in total. Still now I am very happy. Thanks to Southernsounds and Johny_2000 for your suggestions.

I note that DFU mode does not always get stuck. I'm glad your D50 is working properly. As I said above, the first few hours with devices are a tricky subject. I spent many hours trying to understand its behavior regarding power supply, on/off and standby. There are things that still don't add up for me.

Today I discovered a checkbox in the Topping Tune software called "Filtered FR alignment" in the System Settings menu. According the user guide: "This function aligns the response of the filtered curves to 0 dB at 500 Hz."

It seems that the Target FR curve is in this alignment (0dB@500Hz) by default, so when I enable this checkbox, the Filtered FR curve is more aligned with the Target curve. But it also raises the Filtered FR curve if it has any attenuation at 500Hz.

In a few days I will have the he400se here and I will be able to start testing with the PEQ.

 

[Southernsounds]

Just so everyone knows, this USB isolator and the Topping HS02 work great with the D50 III.
Both provide enough current for the device.
And both improve SINAD by 3 dB (122 dB without vs 125 dB with).

I power the DAC separately from the USB connection to the PC. Would you recommend placing an isolator on the connection to the PC?

 

[Sokel]

I power the DAC separately from the USB connection to the PC. Would you recommend placing an insulator on the connection to the PC?

Do you mean an isolator?
That makes sense when it electrically isolates PC from DAC so no interference from CPU/GPU/fans,etc passes through and becomes audible and it's usually useful for PC powered devices.
If you don't have such problem then you don't need it.

 

[Southernsounds]

Do you mean an isolator?
That makes sense when it electrically isolates PC from DAC so no interference from CPU/GPU/fans,etc passes through and becomes audible and it's usually useful for PC powered devices.
If you don't have such problem then you don't need it.

Thanks. Yes, I meant isolator. Ok, I don't have any weird noise problems, but I have a PC with a lot of fans and gadgets plugged in and I found it beneficial to "protect" the SINAD. It's probably better to spend that money on something else.

 

[johny_2000]

Would you recommend placing an isolator on the connection to the PC?

Check out my post. It's cheap and does a great job of isolating PC/ground loop noise. But SINAD results can only be measured with high-end instruments and are not audible.

 

[johny_2000]

Here are some interesting numbers about using Harman OE 2018 target equalizers on D50 III + A50 III + HD650 headphones.
With DAC at full volume (0 dBFS @ 5 Vrms) and amp at Low Gain (-6 dB), the average SPL (pink noise -9.5 dbFS) of the headphones is 95 dB.
The same with amp at Mid Gain (+6 dB), the average SPL of the headphones is 106 dB.
The test was done in REW software with random pink noise @ -9.5 dbFS and moving microphone method calibrated UMIK-2, at ear distance from the headphones.

 

[Southernsounds]

Check out my post. It's cheap and does a great job of isolating PC/ground loop noise. But SINAD results can only be measured with high-end instruments and are not audible.

I know, but most of us here are looking for the best settings even if we can't hear them

Here are some interesting numbers about using Harman OE 2018 target equalizers on D50 III + A50 III + HD650 headphones.
With DAC at full volume (0 dBFS @ 5 Vrms) and amp at Low Gain (-6 dB), the average SPL (pink noise -9.5 dbFS) of the headphones is 95 dB.
The same with amp at Mid Gain (+6 dB), the average SPL of the headphones is 106 dB.
The test was done in REW software with random pink noise @ -9.5 dbFS and moving microphone method calibrated UMIK-2, at ear distance from the headphones.

Very interesting values, thanks. I was just wondering how the SINAD varies according to the three levels of input gain of the A50 III.

I received the HE400se but I returned it quickly. Its sound is not for me, neither before EQ nor after. I need something with more clarity, more air and more resolution. I guess the HD800S is what I need, but maybe I'll try something cheaper, like the AR5000. I think I might like it more than the Sundara. I had time to play around with Topping Tune a bit and it seemed fine, except that you can only change the values in 0.5 dB and not in 0.1 dB. The ability to see the target curve, the source FR and the filtered FR is very useful. It also lacks support for importing external data in txt files.

 

[johny_2000]

Very interesting values, thanks. I was just wondering how the SINAD varies according to the three levels of input gain of the A50 III.

The best SINAD measurements are obtained at Mid Gain.
I measured all three modes with a 300 Ohm dummy load and the rankings were: medium gain (125 dB), minimum gain (114 dB), maximum gain (110 dB).
At maximum gain, the noise floor rises above the THD, which worsens the SINAD readings.
So I personally prefer medium gain as my primary mode, with the option to switch to minimum gain if your headphones have too much SPL.

 

[johny_2000]

I received the HE400se but I returned it quickly. Its sound is not for me, neither before EQ nor after. I need something with more clarity, more air and more resolution. I guess the HD800S is what I need

The HD800S / HD650 are very good in this regard, unless you're chasing the extreme bass of Beats headphones.

 

[johny_2000]

I had time to play around with Topping Tune a bit and it seemed fine, except that you can only change the values in 0.5 dB and not in 0.1 dB. The ability to see the target curve, the source FR and the filtered FR is very useful. It also lacks support for importing external data in txt files.

Absolutely true. I found that some respected audio devices (RME DAC) also use 0.5dB steps for EQ and volume controls. The only exception is the MiniDSP DAC.
And there is no way to load EQ presets using text files. So I just do my job by manually copying these numbers into the software. Again, MiniDSP allows you to load EQ files.

 

[Southernsounds]

The best SINAD measurements are obtained at Mid Gain.
I measured all three modes with a 300 Ohm dummy load and the rankings were: medium gain (125 dB), minimum gain (114 dB), maximum gain (110 dB).
At maximum gain, the noise floor rises above the THD, which worsens the SINAD readings.
So I personally prefer medium gain as my primary mode, with the option to switch to minimum gain if your headphones have too much SPL.

Fantastic job, thanks a lot. It makes perfect sense to me that the A50's star gain is the M. I have a dirt cheap headphone plugged into the M right now and it has plenty of power. The HE400es needs more gain and I had to move it to the H. Based on my tastes, the A50 III is the bare minimum that a headphone with the sensitivity of the HE400es or the Sundara needs. Ruling out the HD800 for now due to price, based on my research, the AR5000 has a bit more clarity and resolution than the HD650, and lower sensitivity values. Without EQ, a lot less bass as well.

Absolutely true. I found that some respected audio devices (RME DAC) also use 0.5dB steps for EQ and volume controls. The only exception is the MiniDSP DAC.
And there is no way to load EQ presets using text files. So I just do my job by manually copying these numbers into the software. Again, MiniDSP allows you to load EQ files.

I didn't know about this limitation in the RME. That reconciles me with the Topping Tune. Could it be related to the storage capacity of the hardware? In any case, nobody is able to perceive variations below 0.5dB. When I get tired of the work of entering data manually, I go back to the classic MathAudio Headphone EQ, which supports everything.

 

[Southernsounds]

Absolutely true. I found that some respected audio devices (RME DAC) also use 0.5dB steps for EQ and volume controls. The only exception is the MiniDSP DAC.
And there is no way to load EQ presets using text files. So I just do my job by manually copying these numbers into the software. Again, MiniDSP allows you to load EQ files.

Now I understand: only devices capable of entering values below 0.5 are able to import EQ files. I think this makes sense.

 

[johny_2000]

Now I understand: only devices capable of entering values below 0.5 are able to import EQ files. I think this makes sense.

I think so. In any case, it is feasible and absolutely inaudible within +/- 0.5 dB.

 

[DeDovla]

The best SINAD measurements are obtained at Mid Gain.
I measured all three modes with a 300 Ohm dummy load and the rankings were: medium gain (125 dB), minimum gain (114 dB), maximum gain (110 dB).
At maximum gain, the noise floor rises above the THD, which worsens the SINAD readings.

Low gain is probably the same performance as Medium gain at same power/voltage output similar to other Topping products. Have a look at the L50:

As you can see, SINAD is lower for low gain only due to being power/voltage limited. Otherwise, they are exactly the same. High gain in Topping products always incurs a noise penalty however probably inaudible to the human ear and when you need more power you don’t really have a choice either way.

I suspect it is similar for the A50 III as well. So there should really be no downsides for using low gain.