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Topping D30Pro Review (Balanced DAC)

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Hifihedgehog

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Thank you for a simple and clear review focusing on the measurements that matter. That is really the crux of it all! I wrote my little rant yesterday in another thread but this review is really the perfect example of the answer to the problem. We just need to get back to the basics just like this. And then we just need to spread it as much as possible. The idiots who argue against the facts will only keep looking stupider and stupider as they keep reducing their argument to "facts don't matter."
 

Labjr

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Well, Topping is using four DAC chips here if I'm not mistaken. Having more channels in parallel allows for better performance, same thing okto does with their stereo vs. their 8-channel DAC for example.
Cirrus Logic, just like ESS, does not have its own fab. AKM did until it burned down a couple month ago.

I understand stacking channels for better noise figures etc.. However, I was unaware that Cirrus had technology with performance even remotely close to anything by AKM or ESS.
 

JohnYang1997

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I understand stacking channels for better noise figures etc.. However, I was unaware that Cirrus had technology with performance even remotely close to anything by AKM or ESS.
Hmm. How to say this. Even with old CS4398 you could massive parallel those and get very good results. The current state of cs43131/cs43198 is a slight cheaper but simpler implementation version of es9038q. There are many things that are different for these chips. But this is how i see them. 9038pro even 9028pro is another league completely. D70s with dual 4497 also showed the real potential of these chips. It's just that in the past people using very good chips but implemented them poorly resulting in sub standard performance. Some portable player has dual ak4499 but only managed sub ak4493/single cs43131 performance.

So in conclusion, it's both. 1, cs43198 is really not that competitive in front of 9038pro 4499. 2, many devices have poor implementation of great chips.
 

Labjr

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CS43198 specs says "Pseudo-Differential" analog output?
 

jfree77

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Just a quick heads up on the youtube review @amirm . The sound was a bit low in your video, so when the next video auto-played, it was fairly loud. Otherwise, great video. I can't wait to see more. Subscribed!

I would have been disappointed if the sound levels of Amir's first video weren't mentioned in an audiophile forum. :)
 

MiloTheFirst

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And yes, I have the companion headphone amp as well.
Marvelous! I have been holding on buying the d/a 50s combo to wait and see how these would compete. To be fair the former would already have me covered for all my equipment and beyond, but the extra I/O from these would probably serve me for whatever i might want to try in at least the next decade. Let's hope topping keeps the price as affordable as they usually do
 

vlad335

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To make a fully featured AVR, there are a lot of license fees to paid.. such as Dolby, HDMI, HDCP, etc..

Yes, so the price wouldnt be $500 I'm sure but no matter, I would buy it day one.
 

ninetylol

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Hmm. How to say this. Even with old CS4398 you could massive parallel those and get very good results. The current state of cs43131/cs43198 is a slight cheaper but simpler implementation version of es9038q. There are many things that are different for these chips. But this is how i see them. 9038pro even 9028pro is another league completely. D70s with dual 4497 also showed the real potential of these chips. It's just that in the past people using very good chips but implemented them poorly resulting in sub standard performance. Some portable player has dual ak4499 but only managed sub ak4493/single cs43131 performance.

So in conclusion, it's both. 1, cs43198 is really not that competitive in front of 9038pro 4499. 2, many devices have poor implementation of great chips.
Topping 9038pro DAC when? I smell 125dB SINAD :eek:

Also whats the output impedance of D30 pro?
 

Tomino

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Get ready for some torture in watching my first youtube video that I just created on this DAC!!! Added it to the review but here it is as well:

Love the video. Well done! I will say that you do look rather different than your photo. But then so do I.
 
OP
amirm

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On a related note, where does one get a swing-arm banana holder?
It is a very expensive banana holder: https://smile.amazon.com/BenQ-Readi...k+lamp+warm+light&refinements=p_72:2661618011

71XfJu8vTHL._AC_SL1500_.jpg


It is a wonderful light with both hue and brightness controls. I would be lost without it, literally! :)
 
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amirm

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Just a quick heads up on the youtube review @amirm . The sound was a bit low in your video, so when the next video auto-played, it was fairly loud. Otherwise, great video. I can't wait to see more. Subscribed!
Yeh, I have to work on that. It is tricky optimization to keep background noise out and not clip while having the mic outside of the shot. Thanks for the feedback.
 

capslock

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Regarding the noise increasing above 40 kHz due to the noise shaper, do the other upper midrange DACs do that, too? I just checked Amir's reviews of the E30 and 10th Mkii (both AK4493), and they simply didn't include the graph for this measurement. Neither do the reviews of the three devices mentioned in the edit.

As for performance, -135 dB 2nd and -138 dB 3rd harmonic is really top league. -145 dB 4th and -150th 5th is almost unheard of! Of the top of my head, I cannot name another DAC device this good *. Noise is also very good.

Looking at the CS43198 data sheet, it states -115 dB THD+N typ, -109 max with 24 bit data. Mediocre! With 16 bit, only -94 dB typ, 88 max. Strange!

If linearity is superb, this has to be noise. So will paralleling DACs bring down noise this much?

What's the story with 16 bit data? That's nowhere near the 98.6 dB theoretical limit, hell, you could find TDA1541A specimen that were better than this. So what is this? Nonlinearity in the 15th bit? This doesn't really make sense to me.

* edit: the DX7 with ESS (which?) beats it on 2nd (-139.5 dB) but not on 3rd (-134). 4th and 5th are signficantly worse than for the D30 Pro here.
SMSL M400 has -134 dB 2nd (slightly poorer than D30 Pro), -143 dB 3d (bestingthe D30 Pro) but completely looses out on 4th and 5th which are both around -140 dB
Topping D90 with AK4499 does not come close to M400
 
Last edited:

PeteL

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Regarding the noise increasing above 40 kHz due to the noise shaper, do the other upper midrange DACs do that, too? I just checked Amir's reviews of the E30 and 10th Mkii (both AK4493), and they simply didn't include the graph for this measurement.

As for performance, -135 dB 2nd and -138 dB 3rd harmonic is really top league. -145 dB 4th and -150th 5th is almost unheard of! Of the top of my head, I cannot name another DAC device this good *. Noise is also very good.

Looking at the CS43198 data sheet, it states -115 dB THD+N typ, -109 max with 24 bit data. Mediocre! With 16 bit, only -94 dB typ, 88 max. Strange!

If linearity is superb, this has to be noise. So will paralleling DACs bring down noise this much?

What's the story with 16 bit data? That's nowhere near the 98.6 dB theoretical limit, hell, you could find TDA1541A specimen that were better than this. So what is this? Nonlinearity in the 15th bit? This doesn't really make sense to me.

* edit: the DX7 with ESS (which?) beats it on 2nd (-139.5 dB) but not on 3rd (-134). 4th and 5th are signficantly worse than for the D30 Pro here.
SMSL M400 has -134 dB 2nd (slightly poorer than D30 Pro), -143 dB 3d (bestingthe D30 Pro) but completely looses out on 4th and 5th which are both around -140 dB
Topping D90 with AK4499 does not come close to M400
May I ask how you get 98,6 theoretical limit for 16 bits? I haven't done the full calculation for a while but the quick approximation of 6.02n=96.3 dB should be very very close and to my knowledge is the accepted theoretical limit for 16 bit audio, but unless stuff changed, dither is pretty much always applied, which gives a dynamic range of about 93 dBs
 
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