Topping D30Pro Review (Balanced DAC)

[Absolute]

You can watch Amir's video on this matter. It's explained nicely.

I did, but not the proper mansplaining I need. So it's not mathematically correct but can't really be noticed since we don't have much signal up there and most of us are deaf above 16 khz or so.

The only thing I can think of is the possibility that worse attenuation, or high-res audio, can trigger more resonances in the driver that might end up as audible distortion further down the range. Is this true?

 

[usern]

I'm also confused about the filter discussion. Is it digital signal filter? Is the measurement done by having a high sample rate input (like 96 kHz) with noise?

 

[monkeyboy]

The video companion was great, thank your doing it, and providing the additional insights...

 

[PeteL]

I did, but not the proper mansplaining I need. So it's not mathematically correct but can't really be noticed since we don't have much signal up there and most of us are deaf above 16 khz or so.

The only thing I can think of is the possibility that worse attenuation, or high-res audio, can trigger more resonances in the driver that might end up as audible distortion further down the range. Is this true?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist–Shannon_sampling_theorem

If the signal is not band limited to half the sample rate, there is loss of information that can't be reconstructed

 

[Tks]

Can somebody please man-splain to me what the problem is with these supposedly shit filters? Assume I'm a degenerate moron that only understand the concepts of "audibility" and "good enough".

TL;DR the device does so well in virtually every aspect, the only thing that is noticeable is the absence of a filter a few people expect as engineering excellence and choice (for now, as JohnYang says the proper filter will be included with an update before the devices head out for sale it seems).

In terms of audibility, this is not a concern. And many other far more expensive devices suffer the same issue since most filters are provided inherently and locked by the DAC chip makers (there are ways around this, but they're expensive, and largely/practically pointless).

There are no actually problems from a performance perspective with what is being billed as an entry balanced DAC. In fact, it's obviously one of the best DACs in terms of performance period, in a nice package.

 

[usern]

1. Choose a DAC with proper filters.
2. If none available (clearly not the case but anyway), add your own filters. Add something to the value. Don't just rely on the DAC maker doing *all* the heavy lifting.

By 2. do you mean that I can set low pass filter at 22 kHz in equalizer APO and be done with it?

 

[LoyK]

Nice DAC and review, good job @Topping and Amir! Video is really nice, well done.

I would like to give some ideas:

• I think it is pretty early to publish such review without pricing, release date or preorder information
• The filter response: If you have problems with this filter you can listen to 48 KHz content only and be happy
• Parametric EQ with presets you can save and switch would be awesome
  • This could actually improve the sound quality compared to 1-2 dB more SINAD which nobody can hear
  • Sorry for getting a little sarcastic here

 

[Consilient]

Get ready for some torture in watching my first youtube video that I just created on this DAC!!! Added it to the review but here it is as well:

Amir, thumbs up for the first video. I'm a technical noob so the explanations enhanced my understanding of the measurements. Perhaps you would consider a video series that goes into even more depth on each measurements and how you actually test the gear.

Also, nice to see the man behind the curtain

 

[dtaylo1066]

$249.99 on AliExpress. 2xAK4493 Verita dacs. Here is the link: https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/398218.html

 

[Lero]

I expect Topping to release next D30 Pro "Max" within weeks with less noise and distortion + shaping noise beyond 100 kHz so I will pass on this and wait for the next. Thanks Topping!

100k + hrz are just for dolphin music am i wrong?

 

[JohnYang1997]

I did, but not the proper mansplaining I need. So it's not mathematically correct but can't really be noticed since we don't have much signal up there and most of us are deaf above 16 khz or so.

The only thing I can think of is the possibility that worse attenuation, or high-res audio, can trigger more resonances in the driver that might end up as audible distortion further down the range. Is this true?

No. There will only be some imaging 20k-22khz from the leakage from 22-24khz. So no issue whatsoever. If you want to have better attenuation at 22khz it means it will start rolling off at lower frequency in real world. So basically you are trading for something you absolutely can't hear(imaging over 20khz) from something you potentially can hear(frequency response variation). Sharper filters (if you want both flat 20khz response and good attenuation at 22khz) also cause other issues like intersample overs(digital clipping basically). So this way you'd back off digital level to avoid clipping. 3db attenuation means 3db loss in SNR. It also adds noise component in THD+N /SINAD. So you are also trading off some performance in the whole audible band for something most people absolutely cannot hear.
In the end it doesn't make any difference in real world. Just what you think you prefer.
Also I can say that anyone who has strong opinion on this matter doesn't know his stuff.

 

[Thomas savage]

Worst thing about not being the Moderator anymore, those Topping cheques! Man I miss them and so dose my accountant.

 

[Thomas savage]

This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Topping D30Pro. It was kindly sent to me by the company. Alas, I forgot to ask them how much it costs when released. I will update the review when I find out.

The D30Pro is released in a lovely medium sized chassis with my favorite display color: orange!
View attachment 111624

I was surprised to see it have balanced outputs and included mains power supply:
View attachment 111625

Reading the manual and using the device, I was pleased to see that the outputs are selectable. You can have XLR out, RCA out, or both. So you can now feed powered speakers from one output and RCA to another and select which one comes on. Note however that there are no discrete controls in the remote and you have to cycle through them.

For those of you who are picky and will find this, the round wheel is really round. There was a piece of fuzz that I took out quickly in Photoshop which gave it a little nick.
Topping D30Pro Measurements
As usual we start with our dashboard, this time using USB In and balanced out at maximum volume:
View attachment 111626

Distortion is down to incredibly low -135 dB. My analyzer noise plus what the D30Pro has on its own contribute to bring SINAD "down" to 120 dB:
View attachment 111627


View attachment 111628

Switching to RCA out, we loose a tiny bit:

View attachment 111630

Dynamic range is superb:
View attachment 111629

As is intermodulation distortion versus level:
View attachment 111631

Linearity is absolutely perfect:
View attachment 111632

Five filters are provided:
View attachment 111633

Nice to see very high attenuation with Filter 2 which is the default.

Distortion+noise was quite high versus frequency when measuring wideband:

View attachment 111634

This could be either distortion, ultrasonic noise, or both. Let's look at the spectrum to find out:
View attachment 111635

Ah, it is not distortion. It is a technique for reducing noise in audible band called "noise shaping." You take out noise in audible band and park it in ultrasonic range that we don't hear. This is a very mild version and starts well above audible range ag 45 kHz. So no consequence as far as audibility.

When I measure jitter on DACs these days, usually USB is great but Toslink and Coax, not so much. D30Pro goes against the trend, producing superb and identical results with all three inputs:
View attachment 111636

Edit: forgot the multitone:
View attachment 111642

Conclusions
Consistent with tradition, Topping D30Pro produces excellent objective results courtesy of the company doing its homework during design rather than waiting for me to find the faults! Assuming this is a mid-priced DAC, the feature set of balanced and selectable outputs combined with a bright and pretty display is a winner in my book. Inclusion of AC mains (and regulatory certifications to go with it) removes clutter form the desk finally making for a compact DAC.

Needless to say, I am happy to strongly recommend the Topping D30Pro DAC.

NOTE: this is a brand new products. I cannot test for bugs and issues beyond what goes on in my testing. While I did not find any issues whatsoever, you may find otherwise. If you are squeamish about such things, wait for early adopters to buy it and put it through its paces.

EDIT: just did a video review of this. Although it covers the same info as above, I explain the measurements in more detail:

------------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Any donations are much appreciated using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Video reviews without you dressed as a giant pink panther .... come on amirm , your not committing to this!

 

[BDE]

Nice DAC and I also like the video, next time live Klippel test?
I like Topping, they are engineered well!
I hope someday they will bring something with DIRAC, DSP and 4 XLR outputs.

Edit:

Topping should make a fully featured multi-ch AVR, or AVP with Dirac. I'm sure they'd knock it out of the park, as they've proven time and time again to put in a lot of effort into their engineering.

I absolutly agree, an AVR/ AVP would be perfect!

 

[hampestampe]

$249.99 on AliExpress. 2xAK4493 Verita dacs. Here is the link: https://www.tpdz.net/productinfo/398218.html

It's not the same model. You linked to the Topping DX3 Pro, this is about Topping D30 Pro.
In this case i think the "X" and "0" is of significant values.

 

[bennetng]

As mentioned in other posts, if people don't bother to click them. You trade one thing for another, there is no free lunch. Not specific to AKM, Cirrus Logic, ESS, TI etc. It is good to have "choices", but don't expect one setting is always better than the others in all aspects. Even with additional FPGA or whatever hardware upsampling circuitry, you either add intersample overs, or latency, or both. It is more practical to pay more attention in other aspects like price, build quality, functionality, after sales service and so on.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/okto-dac8-stereo-da-processor-measurements

 

[Labjr]

I'm wondering if Topping will also make a comparable little DAC with ESS chipset?

BTW, who downvoted his video!

 

[beagleman]

Topping should make a fully featured multi-ch AVR, or AVP with Dirac. I'm sure they'd knock it out of the park, as they've proven time and time again to put in a lot of effort into their engineering.

But, this is what I keep wondering......
Are really good measurements exclusively based on just great engineering, OR are they based partially on, removing the Amp, pre-amp and Video, and all the other circuits and proximity to the DAC, removing things that cause noise in the first place?


In other words, if we took a mediocre measuring AVR, removed its DAC, and measured that same DAC "away" and separate from the rest of the AVR, would it measure the same or better?

 

[fieldcar]

Just a quick heads up on the youtube review @amirm . The sound was a bit low in your video, so when the next video auto-played, it was fairly loud. Otherwise, great video. I can't wait to see more. Subscribed!

 

[ta240]

That YouTube webpage has to get to a million views to earn roughly a thousand bucks. That's a general rule I read.

There must be more money in it than that; given the number of audio informercial hosts that have recently moved to doing it full time without having millions of followers.

The stats on one of them shows:
1.607M
VIDEO VIEWS FOR THE LAST 30 DAYS

$402 - $6.4K
ESTIMATED MONTHLY EARNINGS

Either they are earning nearer to the high end or are getting more paid 'reviews' and paid links.