Topping D30Pro Review (Balanced DAC)

[aandres_gm]

So today I received my D30pro and the balance of working spdif is the following: TV and cheapo bluetooth receiver, happy. Two old CD players, not happy. So bad because one of them has been many years with me and has some value to me....

Besides the expensive ifi spdif ipurifier I think someone mentioned devices/adaptors/hubs or something like that could be used as a sort of bridge and make it work. Tried to find it with no success. Anyone can help me?
Thanks a lot

This is unfortunately an issue that can't be solved in-unit, and I'm not sure any external solutions are good enough. Best course of action would be to get a different DAC

 

[MaxBuck]

I've ordered one of these little guys to replace my Adcom GFP-750 preamp and accept digital-out from my Bluesound Node. Wish me luck.

 

[MCH]

I've ordered one of these little guys to replace my Adcom GFP-750 preamp and accept digital-out from my Bluesound Node. Wish me luck.

Good luck, i bought a new sony dvd player with coax out on purpose and doesn't work either. It's on its way back to amazon, and a second one coming...

 

[MCH]

Then I made a silly test, by putting the Tangent Toslink output into a digital-to-digital converter (5VDC-fed, "el cheapo" no-brand, with selectable Toslink In-Coax out or Coax in-Toslink out modes) I got on Amazon some time ago.

.

Hello Saponetto,
Can you share exactly which converter did you use?
Thanks!

 

[Saponetto]

Hello MarcosCh,

I cannot identify the device because it seems no longer to be available on the Amazon...
Imho, any Toslink In-Coax out or Coax in-Toslink out adapter, depending on your connection needs, would make the job.

Of course all of us are aware that this is a trick, just good to "negotiate" the needs of the D30Pro inputs with the source.

For your convenience, also consider to tests some good -real- glass Toslink cables:
My D30Pro gave interesting and positive results in terms of optical link stability by using a "Ludic Aesir" cable I got at Audiophonics.

 

[skyfly]

Several years ago, I tested a Toslink In-Coax out or Coax in-Toslink out adapter from Amazon. It was not specifically for hi-fi market.
It added quite much jitter when connected to a hi-fi DAC (analog output measured with Focusrite USB interface - I don't remember whether it was 2i2 or Solo -.).

 

[MCH]

I am thinking as well as alternative solution to try playing a CD in a dvd player connected to my tv via hmdi and from the tv to the D30pro via toslink (this one does work). Will the signal degrade or be processed in the tv or changed somehow?
(a bit desperate now, brought a new dvd player (sony) in amazon with coax out but again doesn't work with the d30pro...)

 

[skyfly]

I listened to a system with such a connection. Blu-ray player HDMI -> TV optical -> hi-fi DAC. The sound was more tiring than the sound from laptop USB -> hi-fi DAC in the same system. However, it was long time ago, when the jitter reduction in hi-fi DAC was not so good.

Many years ago, a magazine tested jitter from the digital audio output from TVs. I don't remember whether they tested HDMI or optical. The amount jitter was huge. Again, it was long time ago.

 

[MaxBuck]

I've ordered one of these little guys to replace my Adcom GFP-750 preamp and accept digital-out from my Bluesound Node. Wish me luck.

Now in place.

Great choice. My wife in the kitchen agrees; clarity and soundstage improved by a quantum step, like a veil has been lifted!

(Sarcasm only, of course. But it does sound and work great.)

You will soon see the Adcom on the For Sale subforum.

 

[tvrgeek]

What the heck. Going to give Topping one last try and see if superb objective specs translate into an audible improvement. It had better be stable and not have the spurious noise and other issues of the last Topping I had.

 

[Veri]

What the heck. Going to give Topping one last try and see if superb objective specs translate into an audible improvement. It had better be stable and not have the spurious noise and other issues of the last Topping I had.

Well. Try not to go into it too biased. It should sound absolutely "normal", if anything will you use it balanced out? Note it is ~4.15 Vrms out, not sure what you'll be comparing to.

 

[MaxBuck]

What the heck. Going to give Topping one last try and see if superb objective specs translate into an audible improvement. It had better be stable and not have the spurious noise and other issues of the last Topping I had.

Hope it works as well for you as it has for me. Zero noise, zero foibles.

I wonder whether the simplicity of my system has yielded dividends in operability. My components seem bulletproof to me. Perhaps my insistence on balanced connections is partly the reason.

 

[tvrgeek]

So, DAC came last night. Plug and play, so that's a better start than the last Topping. (E30)
HORRIBLE instructions. Really nothing more than plug and play.
There is a firmware update. Not found out how to see what level I have, but only 7 filters so I guess old.
There is a driver. I assume for ASIO, DSD etc. Again anything in the instructions would be helpful. Loading it now.
I hope the driver will have a dashboard to look at settings, firmware etc.
Curious, it says playing a 46K when it is playing a CD on a PC @ 44.1 Is this windows messing around? Is there any loss/gain in the translation?

They seem to assume we know all about them and need no information. I can see that for a $20 dongle, but not a $350 unit.

 

[tvrgeek]

Four generations
First outboard, an old MUSE Fuse Wolfson DAC, with a much improved power supply so no line noise .01 generation
Oppo BDP-103. Old but well respected. Newer but similar generation to the Muse
Schiit Asgard with AKM internal dac .001 generation
Topping .001 generation

The Muse does not do HD, but the other three do.

Wayback in the dawn of time, I found the Wolfson to sound better than the Burr Brown of the era. It beat my old NAD CD by a lot and a slight edge over the old Rotel CD. Back there, there were few that could tough the Rotel. Differences were clear.

I will also verify it is functional with no spurious garbage like the E30 I sent back last year. Loopback via a Scarlett IO box. Nowhere able to get the true specs, but can identify a serious defect.

All will feed the Asgard line stage. I also have my old Nakamichi preamp.
I will use my Grado's as they bring out the worst of the music where my Yamahas are smoother.
Then all will feed my main stereo. In all cases RCA out as I am running a couple of feet, not a couple hundred. The Schiit has all the line drive needed.
I will then test it as pre-out without the Asgard into the speakers.

What I am listening for is that glare on horns, violins and voices like Joni Mitchel. Can I crank up Harry James and my wife not leave the room covering her ears? Can't it tame Buddy Rich? How about really bad recordings like the 2400 Fulton St Jefferson Airplane. Does Amanda McBroom melt any still breathing male. I don't care about pulling out tiny details below the noise floor you can only hear with $5000 headphones. I only use phones on my desk to not disturb my wife in the morning. Such details are not audible with speakers in a real living room. I will be testing with cans and no eq. I will test with and without on speakers.

I still believe:
For a short distance, where electrical noise is not an issue, balanced lines and cans are total marketing BS. If one unit sounds better with balanced, then they have an incompetent SE design. From testing Amirm has done, that does seem common. So, not the technology, the implementation. The one place where it may have a tiny advantage is in class D modules that are a differential input. But that too depends on how well they do their input stage.

I hope to soon believe if DACs that cost more than $100 that are well executed sound the same or not. Of course, many may degrade in different ways. Kind of like expensive RCA cables. I have heard differences in some esoteric cable as they screwed things up compared to plain old Belden stranded 75 Ohm coax. Different yes. Better no. As far as a DAC, the question may be: Is cleaner better? For all I know, I may like the Muse better and will have wasted a frustrating year and a lot of money upgrading. Maybe there is a reason no one sells their OPPO.

I am recapping my old MOSFET amp today as the "upgrade" to the Parasound was a disaster. At least the week I have spent with LTSpice verifying my old design I can claim was an upgrade. Only change is upping the LTP current to match the VAS and a little less LTP emitter degen and new main filter bank with multiple low ESR caps. I may spring for some .5% degen resistors as the transistors were already matched. ( closest two from 20)

Tracks that can sound bad, or sound great:
Bream plays Alverez. Anything wrong and the base strings sound metallic
Ladies of the Canyon Tweeter killer
King James Version edge to trumpet crescendos
Buddy Rich band. He pushes the horns really hard
Children of Sanchez Should be smooth as butter
Growing up in Hollywood almost erotetic
2400 Fulton, just a bad recording.
Opening hand clapping on Clapton Unplugged. Bad recording and bad electronics makes it worse
I need to find some good HD files.

This is going to take a while unless pieces fall out quickly. To work.

 

[tvrgeek]

I went into setup, changed the mode to "DAC" but it did not keep this setting after a power cycle. This current firmware 2.44 should. I did not find a way out of setup without power cycle.

I found a WEB with the same music files in a dozen formats, so I can put it to the test. I am a little confused as the source file should set the format, not rely on the Widows parameters. I have never dealt with HD, so I don't know.

Do I need to load ASIO4all ? Or is that in the driver? What does it buy me ( if player supports it) ?

 

[tvrgeek]

Well, first pass did not take very long. Both the Schiit and Topping are both more detailed and smoother than the OPPO or Muse.
Enough of headphones. On speakers now. Differences are much smaller.

 

[MaxBuck]

Four generations
First outboard, an old MUSE Fuse Wolfson DAC, with a much improved power supply so no line noise .01 generation
Oppo BDP-103. Old but well respected. Newer but similar generation to the Muse
Schiit Asgard with AKM internal dac .001 generation
Topping .001 generation

The Muse does not do HD, but the other three do.

Wayback in the dawn of time, I found the Wolfson to sound better than the Burr Brown of the era. It beat my old NAD CD by a lot and a slight edge over the old Rotel CD. Back there, there were few that could tough the Rotel. Differences were clear.

I will also verify it is functional with no spurious garbage like the E30 I sent back last year. Loopback via a Scarlett IO box. Nowhere able to get the true specs, but can identify a serious defect.

All will feed the Asgard line stage. I also have my old Nakamichi preamp.
I will use my Grado's as they bring out the worst of the music where my Yamahas are smoother.
Then all will feed my main stereo. In all cases RCA out as I am running a couple of feet, not a couple hundred. The Schiit has all the line drive needed.
I will then test it as pre-out without the Asgard into the speakers.

What I am listening for is that glare on horns, violins and voices like Joni Mitchel. Can I crank up Harry James and my wife not leave the room covering her ears? Can't it tame Buddy Rich? How about really bad recordings like the 2400 Fulton St Jefferson Airplane. Does Amanda McBroom melt any still breathing male. I don't care about pulling out tiny details below the noise floor you can only hear with $5000 headphones. I only use phones on my desk to not disturb my wife in the morning. Such details are not audible with speakers in a real living room. I will be testing with cans and no eq. I will test with and without on speakers.

I still believe:
For a short distance, where electrical noise is not an issue, balanced lines and cans are total marketing BS. If one unit sounds better with balanced, then they have an incompetent SE design. From testing Amirm has done, that does seem common. So, not the technology, the implementation. The one place where it may have a tiny advantage is in class D modules that are a differential input. But that too depends on how well they do their input stage.

I hope to soon believe if DACs that cost more than $100 that are well executed sound the same or not. Of course, many may degrade in different ways. Kind of like expensive RCA cables. I have heard differences in some esoteric cable as they screwed things up compared to plain old Belden stranded 75 Ohm coax. Different yes. Better no. As far as a DAC, the question may be: Is cleaner better? For all I know, I may like the Muse better and will have wasted a frustrating year and a lot of money upgrading. Maybe there is a reason no one sells their OPPO.

I am recapping my old MOSFET amp today as the "upgrade" to the Parasound was a disaster. At least the week I have spent with LTSpice verifying my old design I can claim was an upgrade. Only change is upping the LTP current to match the VAS and a little less LTP emitter degen and new main filter bank with multiple low ESR caps. I may spring for some .5% degen resistors as the transistors were already matched. ( closest two from 20)

Tracks that can sound bad, or sound great:
Bream plays Alverez. Anything wrong and the base strings sound metallic
Ladies of the Canyon Tweeter killer
King James Version edge to trumpet crescendos
Buddy Rich band. He pushes the horns really hard
Children of Sanchez Should be smooth as butter
Growing up in Hollywood almost erotetic
2400 Fulton, just a bad recording.
Opening hand clapping on Clapton Unplugged. Bad recording and bad electronics makes it worse
I need to find some good HD files.

This is going to take a while unless pieces fall out quickly. To work.

It appears you really enjoy all this futzing around. Glad you have the equipment available to do it.

 

[Veri]

I found a WEB with the same music files in a dozen formats, so I can put it to the test. I am a little confused as the source file should set the format, not rely on the Widows parameters. I have never dealt with HD, so I don't know.

Do I need to load ASIO4all ? Or is that in the driver? What does it buy me ( if player supports it) ?

By default Windows (and Mac for that matter) only use the device set sample rate and resample all to this device setting. Only when using some exclusive mode application with ASIO or WASAPI (or CoreAudio) direct streaming it will automatically set the source sample rate.

Windows own driver can work with WASAPI. You need to install a driver for ASIO support. They achieve the same. But your player needs to be set up for it.

 

[tvrgeek]

Quick impressions, the Topping may be slightly smoother. Maybe a slight edge in resolution. Gentle cymbals in the background etc. Not much. I probably can't go much further until I get my old amp back in there.

Veri, AH! That is what I was looking for. Windows doing what it thinks I want, not what I want. So as I only have CD FLAC on the server right now, I'll set it accordingly, but I guess to use HD files, I will need to change the player too as Media Server does not do ASIO or WASAPI. I think. Maybe. But I like the UI better. So off for some reading.

 

[Rottmannash]

Quick impressions, the Topping may be slightly smoother. Maybe a slight edge in resolution. Gentle cymbals in the background etc. Not much. I probably can't go much further until I get my old amp back in there. Veri, AH! That is what I was looking for. Windows doing what it thinks I want, not what I want. So as I only have CD FLAC on the server right now, I'll set it accordingly, but I guess to use HD files, I will need to change the player too as Media Server does not do ASIO or WASAPI. I think. Maybe. But I like the UI better. So off for some reading. Try Foobar if all you're playing is local media.