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Topping D30 DAC Measurement and Review

solderdude

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Ultimately my mod would make those ldos response faster to voltage drops under load.

I understand... except there aren't varying loads. There is no headphone load nor speaker load.
When there aren't any varying loads (can easily be shown by measurements of the power supply voltage rail) then why would the modification still appear to impact 'speed' in the audio realm ?
It does not make sense, in order to have audible changes there must be substantially measurable ones.
The power supply rails is where the changes occur.
To substantiate claims AC measurements in the powersupply rails of the analog/DAC sections with before and after mod situations and full measurements of the audio output would give clear results and get Julf of your back as well as me asking things that remain unanswerred.
 

solderdude

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I am sure FFT on 1kHz test tone will yield a sharper peak.

Why would 1kHz pole in an FFT be 'sharper' and how would that become audible ?
Did skirting become less after the mod ?
Did the harmonics change in amplitude before and after the mod.

I don't own any Topping gear so can't send any your way. I only have some G1217 prototypes on a shelf. Personally I don't use tubes... they are from another era :D

What I usually do before modding anything is doing some base measurements, apply mods and compare before and after.
I can't acces google drive from work. When I do not forget I will have a look at home to see what was measured.
 

solderdude

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i had a friend in electrical engineering and i was doing a comparison near the bench presenting her a quick mod and asked for opinions. That’s it.

Ah.. O.K. clear... sighted observation after mods. No verifications. Now your findings make sense.
 

solderdude

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Had a look at the google docs.

The measured voltages cannot possibly exist on capacitors.
The peaks you see are caused by leakage of SMPS, one that operates around 0.5MHz.
Of course, even when you modify the crap out of the power supply you will never get it to suppress 500kHz needle pulses anyway.
For this only decoupling caps work.
That's the biatch when using a scope. Most likely when you connect the ground and probe together on both pins of a component (so basically shorted input) you may still see them.
If those voltages were really there the currents would have to be huge and extremely short. In other words the peaks you see are measurement errors. The amplitude changes might as well have come from how the probe and probewire(s) have been draped over the DUT and table.

DAC's and amplifiers, certainly with regs feeding the output stage, differ substantially.
The reg mods in a D30 cannot possibly cause the perceived improvement. It looks more of a subjective case of associating.

Technically I agree that with such large capacitors on the outputs of the regs you would need to install reverse diodes on the regs.
Also that large capacitors on the output of regs is suboptimal.
However, it looks like that it works and larger caps can provide transients much better than LM317/337 regs can.
Output power is drawn from the other 2 large caps though and the 1 Ohm + large caps also form a low pass filter to remove HF noise.

I don't know how many Modi's have been returned to Schiit with blown power supplies. There may be some merit to John's claim that a blown reg (would effectively become short between in and output and thus overvoltage) may well be the root cause of blown output stages.
Could also be SOA being reached of shorted output devices peak currents.
Jason probably knows by now.
 
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Svperstar

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Curious have any other drivers surfaced besides the one from a couple years ago Gustard was using?
 

Svperstar

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Do you need a new driver for some reason? Its just using XMOS so basically any XMOS driver should work fine.

Just testing some things. I haven't looked into the driver situation in ages was curious if there was a new standard.

I'm aware it will run without a driver but I use volume equalization under enhancements for gaming and it works better then any plugin I have used.
 

Jimster480

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Just testing some things. I haven't looked into the driver situation in ages was curious if there was a new standard.

I'm aware it will run without a driver but I use volume equalization under enhancements for gaming and it works better then any plugin I have used.
Where is that option? I've never seen it.
 

Svperstar

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Where is that option? I've never seen it.

Sound control panel -> Playback -> D30 properties -> Enhancements -> Loudness equalization.

For settings set short it increases the effect. Its great for hearing footsteps in FPS games.
 

Jimster480

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Sound control panel -> Playback -> D30 properties -> Enhancements -> Loudness equalization.

For settings set short it increases the effect. Its great for hearing footsteps in FPS games.
Cool I will check it out! Thanks!
 

danielkt

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Just bought Topping D30 and in user manual said that it's normal to feel current weak electrical when touching aluminium case with hand.
But when I touch the switch (on off or input selector), it feels very very strong and shocking. Is it normal ? Anybody feel the same ?
 

JohnYang1997

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Just bought Topping D30 and in user manual said that it's normal to feel current weak electrical when touching aluminium case with hand.
But when I touch the switch (on off or input selector), it feels very very strong and shocking. Is it normal ? Anybody feel the same ?
Check the grounding.
 

Neutron

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Just bought Topping D30 and in user manual said that it's normal to feel current weak electrical when touching aluminium case with hand.
But when I touch the switch (on off or input selector), it feels very very strong and shocking. Is it normal ? Anybody feel the same ?

Not myself. Switch levers shouldn’t carry voltage under normal circumstances. Consider requesting replacement.

you could verify if there is voltage using a multimeter. BTW, have you connected it with ither devices? Which socket you used?
 
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Jimster480

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Just bought Topping D30 and in user manual said that it's normal to feel current weak electrical when touching aluminium case with hand.
But when I touch the switch (on off or input selector), it feels very very strong and shocking. Is it normal ? Anybody feel the same ?
Really? That sounds like it's not grounded.
 

danielkt

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Not myself. Switch levers shouldn’t carry voltage under normal circumstances. Consider requesting replacement.

you could verify if there is voltage using a multimeter. BTW, have you connected it with ither devices? Which socket you used?

yes, it is connected to amplifier (rca cable) and tv (digital coax cable). The power adapter (included from topping) has no grounding, it has only 2 plug connect to ac power.
Is it possible the current comes from other device (amplifier or tv) via rca or digital cable ?
btw this device work & sound perfectly...
 

Neutron

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yes, it is connected to amplifier (rca cable) and tv (digital coax cable). The power adapter (included from topping) has no grounding, it has only 2 plug connect to ac power.
Is it possible the current comes from other device (amplifier or tv) via rca or digital cable ?
btw this device work & sound perfectly...

Please pardon me if my response seems a bit out of order. My speculation first. I had opened this thing before and saw its shunt voltage regulators are standing inside the unit. The LM317/337 it has inside uses tabs as input/output in addition to the legs. So if the tab touchs the casing from inside, you will have voltage passing to the ground (case and switches grounded together).

I borrowed the image from web to give an idea. Check the two large black blocks next to LED. The reason I say this is because input switch is not hooked up with power section, thus should not carry the same voltage as power switch in case of bad switches. The aluminum surface is oxidized so it's not as conductive as metal switches and that's why it is not hurting your fingers. The reason why protection not triggered is a further question.

You should try opening it and see if that is the problem. You only need to remove front panel to slide the board out. To fix it, just push the regs down towards the board a bit or tape the tabs.
 

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JohnYang1997

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Oh I thought it's A30. D30 wise, it's only possible due to you computer(up or down stream devices) not being grounded. Otherwise it's fully isolated from the earth, and there should be no tingling feeling when touching.
 

danielkt

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Please pardon me if my response seems a bit out of order. My speculation first. I had opened this thing before and saw its shunt voltage regulators are standing inside the unit. The LM317/337 it has inside uses tabs as input/output in addition to the legs. So if the tab touchs the casing from inside, you will have voltage passing to the ground (case and switches grounded together).

I borrowed the image from web to give an idea. Check the two large black blocks next to LED. The reason I say this is because input switch is not hooked up with power section, thus should not carry the same voltage as power switch in case of bad switches. The aluminum surface is oxidized so it's not as conductive as metal switches and that's why it is not hurting your fingers. The reason why protection not triggered is a further question.

You should try opening it and see if that is the problem. You only need to remove front panel to slide the board out. To fix it, just push the regs down towards the board a bit or tape the tabs.

Yes I have opened & check that no component touch the case alluminium..
Also I check it with multimeter, the switch give +- 100 mv max (fluctuate) with bare foot to floor. The case alluminiumitself gave very small or almost 0 v.
My amplifier case gave 0v.

Thanks all for responding this problem, I think to seal the switch with sometthing like tape
 

Neutron

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Yes I have opened & check that no component touch the case alluminium..
Also I check it with multimeter, the switch give +- 100 mv max (fluctuate) with bare foot to floor. The case alluminiumitself gave very small or almost 0 v.
My amplifier case gave 0v.

Thanks all for responding this problem, I think to seal the switch with sometthing like tape

that’s rather strange. Switch levers shouldn’t carry voltage. Have you checked voltage of other grounding points, such as RCA connector exterior, side leg of power socket?
 
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