Topping D10s USB DAC and Bridge Review

[Yorkshire Mouth]

I wasn’t particularly thinking of getting a benefit. I was thinking more of future proofing yourself if your current amp doesn’t have balanced inputs.

 

[artsky]

Hello guys, just got my D10s today. I wonder what revision does your unit say in the control panel? Mine says it is v1.04. Just making sure that my device is current, just in case there are later versions that are available.

 

[half_dog]

I wasn’t particularly thinking of getting a benefit. I was thinking more of future proofing yourself if your current amp doesn’t have balanced inputs.

Huuum I got it. I'm unable to tell if Topping D10s circuit can handle this kind of connection. Maybe @JohnYang1997 can talk more about it. I think he has already told it can't.

I don't mind the balanced connection but I would be much happier if the RCA output version had the same performance as the balanced version :v
Mostly its noise floor.

 

[Toku]

Huuum I got it. I'm unable to tell if Topping D10s circuit can handle this kind of connection. Maybe @JohnYang1997 can talk more about it. I think he has already told it can't.

I don't mind the balanced connection but I would be much happier if the RCA output version had the same performance as the balanced version :v
Mostly its noise floor.

Do not directly compare the S / N of RCA unbalanced and XLR balanced.
This is because the balanced connection sets the output voltage twice the unbalanced to make the S / N look better.
Therefore, the S / N of the balanced connection is 6 dB higher than the unbalanced.

In the old days, balanced connections had the same output voltage as unbalanced connections. However, the numerical competition overheated, and the output voltage became the current one in order to show the performance of the XLR balance better.
Recently, a promotion method that raises the output voltage from 4V to show the S / N value well has become conspicuous.

We must not be fooled by such publicity. There are no strict standards in the consumer audio world. Manufacturers are in a world where everything is OK to make products that sell.
I used to design professional equipment such as TV stations. Strict standards were observed at such sites.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Do not directly compare the S / N of RCA unbalanced and XLR balanced.
This is because the balanced connection sets the output voltage twice the unbalanced to make the S / N look better.
Therefore, the S / N of the balanced connection is 6 dB higher than the unbalanced.

In the old days, balanced connections had the same output voltage as unbalanced connections. However, the numerical competition overheated, and the output voltage became the current one in order to show the performance of the XLR balance better.
Recently, a promotion method that raises the output voltage from 4V to show the S / N value well has become conspicuous.

We must not be fooled by such publicity. There are no strict standards in the consumer audio world. Manufacturers are in a world where everything is OK to make products that sell.
I used to design professional equipment such as TV stations. Strict standards were observed at such sites.

When you get 4V output the noise is natural also larger. When you use differential amplifier to convert balanced to unbalanced the noise also gets reduced. The difference is in the noise performance of the differential amplifier not the signal level. Another thing is that 4V is double the voltage conpared to 2V so it's the same ratio compared to the auto range thresholds of AP 2.5V 5V etc. When designed properly you can achieve about the same performance with unbalanced output at 2V.

 

[half_dog]

@Toku Look what these two can do via RCA output =D
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/gustard-x16-balanced-mqa-dac-review.17419/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d30pro-review-balanced-dac.20259/

 

[Toku]

@Toku Look what these two can do via RCA output =D
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/gustard-x16-balanced-mqa-dac-review.17419/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d30pro-review-balanced-dac.20259/

amirm was measuring what I claim in the measurement of M400.
Both are data with USB input and XLR balanced output.

The first is the result with the current standard 4V output.
The second is the result with 5.5V output for SMSL promotion.
The third is the result when set to 2V, which is the same as the unbalanced output.

Nowadays, since a large voltage can be generated directly from a DAC chip, noise generation in an analog circuit is small and the difference is becoming small. Even so, it can be seen that increasing the voltage at the balanced output is advantageous for the S / N competition competing for 0.1 dB.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../smsl-m400-balanced-usb-mqa-dac-review.13732/

 

[JohnYang1997]

amirm was measuring what I claim in the measurement of M400.
Both are data with USB input and XLR balanced output.

The first is the result with the current standard 4V output.
The second is the result with 5.5V output for SMSL promotion.
The third is the result when set to 2V, which is the same as the unbalanced output.

Nowadays, since a large voltage can be generated directly from a DAC chip, noise generation in an analog circuit is small and the difference is becoming small. Even so, it can be seen that increasing the voltage at the balanced output is advantageous for the S / N competition competing for 0.1 dB.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../smsl-m400-balanced-usb-mqa-dac-review.13732/

There is advantage of voltage being 5V vs 4V because AP's noise is significant enough and 4V and 5V are in the same 5V range. One range below that is 2.5V. 2V and 4V have the same ratio to 2.5V and 5V hence performance is really the same. Just look at D30pro measurement, the both outputs have similar performance. Oh there's absolutely no benefit of higher voltage if AP doesn't have noise. We are reaching that DACs have far superior performance than AP you can't measure accuracy. We will see at least 3-4 dB improvement in performance with better analyzer (method).

Again, the performance degradation comes from the differential amplifier that convert balanced to unbalanced.

In M400 review I believe that Amir forgot to change the overlay from XLR to RCA in the RCA output measurement.

The noise mostly is still generated by the DAC not the analogue section. At least for balanced output. Only at the highest performance like Okto dac8 the opamps starting to have affect. Of course when designed properly.

 

[artsky]

Is it recommended that we "Disable software decoding of MQA" on Tidal when using the D10s since it isn't MQA capable?

 

[hira]

Very small noise is heard with driver 5.00.
There was no problem with 4.86.
Is the content of the driver update published somewhere?

 

[guitarmaker]

Just wish to share about inability of the D10s to support iOS or Android devices even with an adapter. Unlike it's previous predecessor, the D10 which I love and own since 2018, works perfectly with my iPhone and iPad using the the lighting USB adapter, I always thought this option as one of the D10 strongpoints which offered great flexibility on the type of sources one wants to use. I was really bummed to discover that the D10s does not give this option after acquiring. I was hoping the acquisition would serve me as a small tidy setup for my work office. Works flawlessly with any Mac or Windows and really like the sound how it pairs with the jds labs atom amp & HD6xx!!!

 

[half_dog]

Just wish to share about inability of the D10s to support iOS or Android devices even with an adapter. Unlike it's previous predecessor, the D10 which I love and own since 2018, works perfectly with my iPhone and iPad using the the lighting USB adapter, I always thought this option as one of the D10 strongpoints which offered great flexibility on the type of sources one wants to use. I was really bummed to discover that the D10s does not give this option after acquiring. I was hoping the acquisition would serve me as a small tidy setup for my work office. Works flawlessly with any Mac or Windows and really like the sound how it pairs with the jds labs atom amp & HD6xx!!!

That's weird, I can use mine D10s (and an E30) with my Galaxy S9 and a Moto G7 Plus without problem... I can't tell about Apple products.

 

[guitarmaker]

That's weird, I can use mine D10s (and an E30) with my Galaxy S9 and a Moto G7 Plus without problem... I can't tell about Apple products.

Maybe I might be wrong! I just checked shenzenaudio website and some one posted a review how his android doesn't connect! But I also checked on amazon and someone who is a car audio installer hooked up his D10s with his iPhone. Waiting on a reply for clarification from shenzenaudio and topping as well. I just might be the unlucky one. Can you send a photo and confirm audio output?

 

[JohnYang1997]

Maybe I might be wrong! I just checked shenzenaudio website and some one posted a review how his android doesn't connect! But I also checked on amazon and someone who is a car audio installer hooked up his D10s with his iPhone. Waiting on a reply for clarification from shenzenaudio and topping as well. I just might be the unlucky one. Can you send a photo and confirm audio output?

It might require a bit high startup current, so some devices won't power it up.

 

[guitarmaker]

It might require a bit high startup current, so some devices won't power it up.

Yup! Absolutely correct! Just received an answer from shenzenaudio and this is their reply:

Generally, the output current of mobile phones/iPad may be too low to meet the normal working requirements of D10s. We recommend connecting D10s and computer for use.
Thanks

Although the both have the same spec for Power input: DC 5V/0.5A (USB powered). It seems this even with the USB adapter it will not provide a high startup current it needs. Thank you guys for your replies!

 

[GeorgeWalk]

Yup! Absolutely correct! Just received an answer from shenzenaudio and this is their reply:

Generally, the output current of mobile phones/iPad may be too low to meet the normal working requirements of D10s. We recommend connecting D10s and computer for use.
Thanks

Although the both have the same spec for Power input: DC 5V/0.5A (USB powered). It seems this even with the USB adapter it will not provide a high startup current it needs. Thank you guys for your replies!

You can use the Apple Camera adapter with your iPhone for devices that need more current. You plug the iPhone power supply and D10s into the adapter. It works.

https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Lightn...ocphy=9001924&hvtargid=pla-403917398107&psc=1

 

[half_dog]

Maybe I might be wrong! I just checked shenzenaudio website and some one posted a review how his android doesn't connect! But I also checked on amazon and someone who is a car audio installer hooked up his D10s with his iPhone. Waiting on a reply for clarification from shenzenaudio and topping as well. I just might be the unlucky one. Can you send a photo and confirm audio output?

 

[guitarmaker]

Thanks half dog for making the Android POV!!! LOL!!!!

 

[guitarmaker]

You can use the Apple Camera adapter with your iPhone for devices that need more current. You plug the iPhone power supply and D10s into the adapter. It works.

https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Lightn...ocphy=9001924&hvtargid=pla-403917398107&psc=1

Thanks for the link! I already have two of the usb 3 adapters model A1619. Still doesn’t work for me. Maybe it’s an OS issue like they have had in the past. Can you send a video like half dog and verify if it works with your iOS device?

 

[GeorgeWalk]

Thanks for the link! I already have two of the usb 3 adapters model A1619. Still doesn’t work for me. Maybe it’s an OS issue like they have had in the past. Can you send a video like half dog and verify if it works with your iOS device?

I can't make a video because my camera is the only video device I have. But I just retested it and it works fine. The A1619 device is what I used. I also used a higher power USB power adapter with it -- an iPad adapter. The D10s worked fine as did the other DACs I tried.