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Topping D10s USB DAC and Bridge Review

Veri

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@JohnYang1997 , any news on release date of the balanced D10?
"Almost ready". For the other point, D10B (balanced) will have much better noise immunity due to TRS jacks, digital outputs are transformer isolated. So all issues should be gone!

The single ended D10/D10s is prone to (USB) grounding noise issues but for the $100 you can't really expect real elaborate power filtering, IMHO.
 

jmz

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Could someone please explain to me why I can hear noticeable D10s sound difference according to used operating system and drivers.

Windows 10 and TheSycon drivers are giving much better sound (more balanced with right amount of bass).
vs.
Linux with ALSA driver (sound dominated by high frequencies with very little bass).

Do I have to make some extra config work with Linux because default ALSA driver is not working in optimal way with D10s?
 
D

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A full galvanic isolator is rather expensive, so an iFi iDefender could work to break the power off the usb and get it externally. If you order it from amazon you can check if it works and solves the problem, or return it if it doesn't.
You could also get a $20 USB isolator from eBay (shipped from China) but that will be limited to 12Mbps (1.5 MB/s) transfer speed. A full-fledged full-speed one like an Intona costs hundreds of dollars.
I think you need a high speed isolator or it wont work at all, Hifime full speed isolator ( based on ADUM4160) does not work with any modern DACs I've tried, if they support >192kHz or DSD it probably wont work.
What makes you say this? It's one of Texas Instruments' best new chips really, works very well in many applications.
I agree about OPA1656, Im using in the D10S output specifically for it's high output drive, the D10s can drive headphones very nicely and cleanly with it.
Keeping in mind the output resistor which sets output impedance at 20 ohm may need to be reduced in value or shorted for good results, best to keep this value as high as tolerable.
 

usern

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I got my A30pro and could test D10s RCA output. Sometimes indeed there is noise, but A30pro ground lift eliminates that.
 
D

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A quick question
I noticed a couple times that the volume from D10s seemed much lower than usual even with windows volume at max, the first time I reinstalled drivers and it fixed it.
When it happened again I discovered there is seperate volume control in Topping control panel and it was lowered some...
I never touched it, something else is changing it... Any ideas what?

I now noticed the CP volume control always tracks the Windows volume control exactly, there must be a bug or glitch causing it to stop tracking the windows volume correctly.
 
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TheTalbotHound

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"Almost ready". For the other point, D10B (balanced) will have much better noise immunity due to TRS jacks, digital outputs are transformer isolated. So all issues should be gone!

The single ended D10/D10s is prone to (USB) grounding noise issues but for the $100 you can't really expect real elaborate power filtering, IMHO.

Will its price be similar to that of the D10s or somewhat higher? What with it being balanced and the knock on effects of the AKM fire on the DAC chip market.
 

Veri

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Will its price be similar to that of the D10s or somewhat higher? What with it being balanced and the knock on effects of the AKM fire on the DAC chip market.
I thought I read $120 but don't quote me on that :p
 

jannek

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The single ended D10/D10s is prone to (USB) grounding noise issues but for the $100 you can't really expect real elaborate power filtering, IMHO.

It would really be great if the D10/S/B would have a separate power supply plug and DC to USB cable like E30 and D50 do. Or - if space on the rear is limited - a y-cable which separates data and power to double USB. Like the iFi Gemini cable (but maybe with less magic and a more realistic price). Maybe as a solution/accessory for people who have issues with noise from the source.
 
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jmz

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It would really be great if the D10/S/B would have a separate power supply plug and DC to USB cable like E30 and D50 do. Or - if space on the rear is limited - a y-cable which separates data and power to double USB. Like the iFi Gemini cable (but maybe with less magic and a more realistic price). Maybe as a solution/accessory for people who have issues with noise from the source.

There is a solution how to easily separate USB signal from USB power.

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dc-p...e-for-external-usb-a-power-supply-p-8389.html

usb-b-adapter-cable-for-external-usb-a-power-supply.jpg


8389_adaptateurUSB-B_USB-A_45.jpg


Now external linear power supply can be used. Could someone tell what power should have this external power supply? Is 5V 1A enough? What if I will connect 5V 2A?
 

jannek

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Wow, I did not know that. Only knew the solution by AQVOX which is not available any more. Thank you very much.
Power requirement of the D10/S is 5V/0,5A according to the Topping page. It is no problem to use a power supply capable of more current.
 
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jmz

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jannek

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My idea of using an external psu is not improving sound but eliminating possible grounding noise in some combinations.
Not planning to spend the same money for an iDefender and an iPower as for the DAC itself.
Is my thought wrong?
 

jmz

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Since we are talking about sound noise or other sound distortions.

Could someone please explain me this situation?

I have had a small problem with my configuration D10s and Intel NUC NUC8I5BEH.

When NUC was sitting on the top of D10s like on the picture I was hearing randomly crack/sizzle in the sound. Something like badly worn vinyl disc.


index.php



I used Supra Cables High Speed Type A-B USB 50cm cable between NUC and DAC and 200cm Belden 1694a coaxial cable with Canare true 75ohm RCA. My amplifier is Marantz PM6006 UK Edition.

I'm not an expert in electronic but I can see that D10s is using audio transformer on digital output.
https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Pulse-Electronics/PE-65612NL?qs=0Ba7fqpihnjaWgPSZtGigw==

index.php




My first thought was to separate them but I didn't have space. So I used some stuff from my workshop and created this solution ;-) My intention was to create some sort of shield between them. It is 3mm thick brass plate 150 x 150mm. It is big enough to cover the whole DAC width and length. The "table" legs are finished with rubber feet.

index.php


This whole setup is sitting on the top of HP Microserver Gen10. But when the DAC is working the server is always down as it is backup server not being used every day.

Since NUC is on this "table" the sound problems are gone.
 

Veri

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My idea of using an external psu is not improving sound but eliminating possible grounding noise in some combinations.
Not planning to spend the same money for an iDefender and an iPower as for the DAC itself.
You don't need the iPower though. Could use the defender thing to break USB power and connect a cheap 5V power supply like a samsung one and that could do it too (possibly). I guess that cable from the image would accomplish the same thing.
 
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jannek

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I was just exaggerating. :-D
I have more than enough USB power supplies from various devices. Mostly used an old (genuine) iPad power supply for audio.
 

Toku

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Since we are talking about sound noise or other sound distortions.

Could someone please explain me this situation?

I have had a small problem with my configuration D10s and Intel NUC NUC8I5BEH.

When NUC was sitting on the top of D10s like on the picture I was hearing randomly crack/sizzle in the sound. Something like badly worn vinyl disc.


index.php



I used Supra Cables High Speed Type A-B USB 50cm cable between NUC and DAC and 200cm Belden 1694a coaxial cable with Canare true 75ohm RCA. My amplifier is Marantz PM6006 UK Edition.

I'm not an expert in electronic but I can see that D10s is using audio transformer on digital output.
https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Pulse-Electronics/PE-65612NL?qs=0Ba7fqpihnjaWgPSZtGigw==

index.php




My first thought was to separate them but I didn't have space. So I used some stuff from my workshop and created this solution ;-) My intention was to create some sort of shield between them. It is 3mm thick brass plate 150 x 150mm. It is big enough to cover the whole DAC width and length. The "table" legs are finished with rubber feet.

index.php


This whole setup is sitting on the top of HP Microserver Gen10. But when the DAC is working the server is always down as it is backup server not being used every day.

Since NUC is on this "table" the sound problems are gone.
I use NUC8i7BEH, but there is no problem even if it is combined with D10s, E30, D50s, etc.
You have to understand what a PC is like.
A PC is a powerful electromagnetic wave generator. It is a transmitter that emits radio waves from hundreds of kHz to hundreds of MHz.
If you stack the D10s on the NUC8i5, it will be disturbed (EMI) and the D10s will not operate normally.
To eliminate it you have installed a stand that made you have a metal shield plate. It is effective in preventing electromagnetic interference, but the first thing to do is not to stack the NUC8i5 and D10s.
 
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jmz

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I use NUC8i7BEH, but there is no problem even if it is combined with D10s, E30, D50s, etc.
You have to understand what a PC is like.
A PC is a powerful electromagnetic wave generator. It is a transmitter that emits radio waves from hundreds of kHz to hundreds of MHz.
If you stack the D10s on the NUC8i5, it will be disturbed (EMI) and the D10s will not operate normally.
To eliminate it you have installed a stand that made you have a metal shield plate. It is effective in preventing electromagnetic interference, but the first thing to do is not to stack the NUC8i5 and D10s.

Thank you for the answer. I have 2 identical sets D10s and Intel NUC. In both situations I have had this same problems when stacked one on another. In first set I separated them far enough to solve this problem. Second set (on pictures) the stand solved the problem. In the future I will have more space for set 2 and I will separate them more. But it looks like electromagnetic shielding on Intel NUC and D10s is not great.
 

Toku

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Thank you for the answer. I have 2 identical sets D10s and Intel NUC. In both situations I have had this same problems when stacked one on another. In first set I separated them far enough to solve this problem. Second set (on pictures) the stand solved the problem. In the future I will have more space for set 2 and I will separate them more. But it looks like electromagnetic shielding on Intel NUC and D10s is not great.
The surface of the aluminum case of Chinese products is electrically insulated by an anodized coating.
And the aluminum case and the ground of the PC board are not connected. Therefore, the shielding effect is low against high frequencies.
In addition, Intel's NUC started to use more plastic for the case from the NUC8ix series, and the shielding effect became worse.
 
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