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Topping D10s strange and scary DSD static onset issue

Doggie

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Hello all, proud owner of a new Topping L30 + D10s stack. Many thanks to everyone on this forum who test these units and helped me make an informed decision.
I've been having a very concerning problem with my D10s that has seemingly just started related to DSD playback. On any DSD sample rate, both native and DoP, after a few seconds of playback I get this sudden, loud onset of pinkish noise. This does not start immediately with a track, a track could play fine for minutes on end or just seconds before this starts. Its worth noting that when the noise starts, there's usually a small pop noise, the actual audio/music starts to fade out/sound distant like its being played across a room, while the pink noise steadily rises. Noise stops when the DAC changes to PCM, or the DSD stream is simply stopped briefly and restarted. It happens with actual DSD files and PCM that is converted/upsampled to DSD.

It's a seriously loud noise that makes me worry it will potentially damage my D10s, L30 or worse, my ears. Any ideas on what could cause this issue? Should I return my D10s for a replacement?

Setup: Windows 10 > Foobar2k using Topping ASIO drivers > D10s > L30
What I have tried:
- Different versions of the ASIO driver
- Different versions of the SACD decoder plugin
- Forcing both native and DoP
- Increasing buffer sizes
- Removing any and all DSP and processing

I've seen quite a few different pathways people set up to get DSD out of Foobar using Topping DACs and related hardware but I can't find a consensus on what plugins/proxies are the most ideal. The SACD plugin included with official Topping drivers seems to be older and missing quite a few features. Here's a picture of my components list, wouldnt be surprised if I'm just doing something completely wrong here.
components.JPG
sacd.JPG

Tinfoil hat edit: It seems to be particularly triggered by loud volume spikes in DSD, such as a when a violent snare drum enters the mix or a "drop" etc. Otherwise it's pretty hard to reliably reproduce. On occasion, a track that seems to glitch out at said volume spike will play through with no issues. Next 5 attempts it will fail close to the same point though. A really weird issue.
 
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pvehling

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What do you have set under Output and that ASIO option?
 
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Doggie

Doggie

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What do you have set under Output and that ASIO option?
Official Topping ASIO driver. Same happens using DSD Transcoder output using both native and DoP. Exclusive mode (WASAPI) simply does not output DSD to my D10s. Not sure if this is expected behaviour or not. Here's a picture of my ASIO page. Presence of the JRiver driver is definitely not at fault as I have literally just installed Media Centre to check if DSD playback works in that.

1668318105809.png
 
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pvehling

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Yeah you can't use Wasapi for DSD. D10s supports native DSD, so make sure that is selected and turn off PCM or DoP. There may be conflicts with multiple plugins too..
 
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Doggie

Doggie

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Thank you, this is the ASIO out plugin I'm currently using though. I've noticed there is also a foo_out_asio_dsd plugin, is this the same plugin or a depreciated method?
As I mentioned, this problem happens even when DSD Transcoder is being used to enforce that for example, DSD64 is being output as DSD64 and not DoP. D10s recognizes that it receiving DSD on its display. This problem occurs whenever the DAC is being fed DSD through any method...
 
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nsfgp

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@Doggie https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-dac-review.12119/post-1350869

EDIT: Just for the sake of completeness which you may not need. If you have/want to play DSD512/DSD1024 files. You can enable the DSD_Processor in the SACD tab (the DSD processor components needs to be installed first if not already). Then set up the resampling as below for 512/1024. Then you are all set for playing any DSD files. For 99% people these would be for testing purpose only but nice to set it up and ready. This is needed as D10S only goes up to DSD256 native due to PCM384 max support.

1668323433694.png
 
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Doggie

Doggie

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@Doggie https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-dac-review.12119/post-1350869

EDIT: Just for the sake of completeness which you may not need. If you have/want to play DSD512/DSD1024 files. You can enable the DSD_Processor in the SACD tab (the DSD processor components needs to be installed first if not already). Then set up the resampling as below for 512/1024. Then you are all set for playing any DSD files. For 99% people these would be for testing purpose only but nice to set it up and ready. This is needed as D10S only goes up to DSD256 native due to PCM384 max support.
Thanks, and apologies for the late reply. I followed your guide and in the process found I had gotten versions of plugins a little mixed up. I am now using the ASIO+DSD output plugin instead of the older ASIO one, and uninstalling any unused components. I also enabled "restart driver on PCM/DSD change" as I thought this might help a little. It seemed to as I was able to play a couple of DSD tracks all the way through without the problem, but after a bit it returned. I also noticed over the last two days after I've left the DAC at my desk, I've come back to find it has "frozen" and won't respond to any audio input until it is unplugged/replugged from USB. When this happens, the LCD just displays a dot, or three dashes.

I thought this may be a USB/power related issue as changing USB ports was the one thing I didn't try. It was plugged into a 3.1 port (oopsie, I know they can be trouble with high speed 2.0 audio stuff) so I moved it to a 2.0 on my mobo far away from other used ports. Touch wood, but it seems to be working properly now as I have played a few hours of uninterrupted DSD.

I've read a few posts on here from other users who seemingly have had issues getting enough power to Topping DACs, and some have used a Y split cable that can provide 5v current from a sturdier, isolated USB power supply. Is this worth doing in my case, and if so, is there any particular cable thats recommended? I'd ideally like to use one that doesn't also draw 5v from the PC side as I've seen cheap cables wired that way.
 

pvehling

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If it's working, then I'd just use it as is until something happens (or doesn't hopefully!).. Those types of cables you're talking about can be had for cheap on ebay and are mostly the same quality. You could even just use the data only part connected to the DAC and the power port on a USB3 port (which provides more power than 2, depending on motherboard).

FYI, I used this one which would work on your D10s.. not sure about availability in AU though: https://www.amazon.com/C2G-28108-USB-Cable-Y-Cable/dp/B0013LSFJI
 

deadwood83

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WHat about a decent powered USB hub? Then you get the isolation and the world is your oyster regarding powering it. + more USB ports.
 
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Doggie

Doggie

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WHat about a decent powered USB hub? Then you get the isolation and the world is your oyster regarding powering it. + more USB ports.
I had considered this, but my main concern was retaining full usb 2.0 speeds, which I understand must be maintained for DACs to use high sample rate audio? Are there any cheap hubs capable of that while also providing proper isolation? I looked into a few USB decrappifier things the other day because I do have a slight GPU noise/ground loop issue with my computer (this has been present over many other DACs/amplifiers ive used) but noticed that they were quite expensive. I think Topping themselves make one, but it is something like $100 US which is a bit out of my budget at the moment. Will an average usb hub actually have proper isolation?

If it's working, then I'd just use it as is until something happens (or doesn't hopefully!).. Those types of cables you're talking about can be had for cheap on ebay and are mostly the same quality. You could even just use the data only part connected to the DAC and the power port on a USB3 port (which provides more power than 2, depending on motherboard).

FYI, I used this one which would work on your D10s.. not sure about availability in AU though: https://www.amazon.com/C2G-28108-USB-Cable-Y-Cable/dp/B0013LSFJI
Thanks for the link, I'll try to find the same one available over here.

Fingers crossed this thing stays working. I had a pretty awful experience getting it shipped from the Aussie reseller I bought it from and would expect a similar hassle with the return.
 

deadwood83

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I had considered this, but my main concern was retaining full usb 2.0 speeds, which I understand must be maintained for DACs to use high sample rate audio? Are there any cheap hubs capable of that while also providing proper isolation? I looked into a few USB decrappifier things the other day because I do have a slight GPU noise/ground loop issue with my computer (this has been present over many other DACs/amplifiers ive used) but noticed that they were quite expensive. I think Topping themselves make one, but it is something like $100 US which is a bit out of my budget at the moment. Will an average usb hub actually have proper isolation?


Thanks for the link, I'll try to find the same one available over here.

Fingers crossed this thing stays working. I had a pretty awful experience getting it shipped from the Aussie reseller I bought it from and would expect a similar hassle with the return.

I have had my DX7 Pro plugged into an Anker USB 3.0 hub with 7 data ports and 3 QC3.0 ports since.... 2019? 0 issues. The big scary back in the day was pre-3.1 spec. USB-IF forum did not have any sort of standards for EMI shielding nor layout so you had an amazing 2.4ghz field extend 1-4" from your active ports. SOme MFGs like Intel and Anker never suffered from this but others just blindly built to minimum viable.
 

Sokel

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Strange thing is that some problems related to XMOS 208 interface (with properly set up all the rest) can be fixed by increasing buffer size in driver panel and REDUCING buffer size in foobar as much as going in the 100ms area.
Specially for DSD256 and DSD512.
Try it if you like.
 

Raneman

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Stumbled across this post researching some Topping DACs and thought I'd share something that might be of use? I was having the exact same issue with my Okto, Mac, and Audirvana. Others were too, with the only common factor being the Okto. Playing DSD files were subject to random violent static crashes, and for quite a while I just gave up and converted to PCM. When Audirvana lost their minds, I demo'd Jriver and thought I'd take another crack at getting the Okto happy with DSD. Out of the chute the problem still occurred, but I started playing with every setting that I could find. What eventually worked was having Jriver "load full file (not decoded) into memory" when it was in Bitstream DSD mode. It's been solid all day long.

The thing is, I'm not sure if that static crash is a result of a specific problem with DSD that I fixed, or if that's just the canary in a coal-mine for some DSD issues in general.
Anyway...hope it helps.

 

Sokel

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Stumbled across this post researching some Topping DACs and thought I'd share something that might be of use? I was having the exact same issue with my Okto, Mac, and Audirvana. Others were too, with the only common factor being the Okto. Playing DSD files were subject to random violent static crashes, and for quite a while I just gave up and converted to PCM. When Audirvana lost their minds, I demo'd Jriver and thought I'd take another crack at getting the Okto happy with DSD. Out of the chute the problem still occurred, but I started playing with every setting that I could find. What eventually worked was having Jriver "load full file (not decoded) into memory" when it was in Bitstream DSD mode. It's been solid all day long.

The thing is, I'm not sure if that static crash is a result of a specific problem with DSD that I fixed, or if that's just the canary in a coal-mine for some DSD issues in general.
Anyway...hope it helps.

Hope you're not using volume control with DSD.
 
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