- Thread Starter
- #41
Nothing is better for free.
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Topping D10s + E1DA Cosmos ADC as a measuring system
- Thread starter pma
- Start date
Another low cost alternative, with the advantage of direct voltage readout and either manual or auto range changing. 10k/20k input impedance.
What the world still needs is something like this with a 1M input impedance so scope probes can be used directly...
What the world still needs is something like this with a 1M input impedance so scope probes can be used directly...
- Thread Starter
- #44
IVX
Major Contributor
Usually, resistors-neighbors on the reel are a lot closer than rated tolerance. They would be -.5%(if 1% tolerance) out from the nominated value but .1% to each other. The same thing with MLCC, you can buy the reel and it may be +3% for nearly all 10000pcs of C0G caps. Another reel -2% and so on.
Now if someone can just design a circuit to get S/PDIF out of this thing in the usual consumer format with a 0.5 V Peak-to-peak V. This should be doable, since the aforementioned signal is already being generated and made available on one of the pins of the internal ADC, only to get "discarded."
Such an addition would make the Cosmos fit so many more usage scenarios - one can hope and dream...
Such an addition would make the Cosmos fit so many more usage scenarios - one can hope and dream...
What is the opinion on using the Topping E30 II or the Topping E50 over the D10s. The E30 II is in the same ballpark as the D10s, so that would be the more likely for many people. The E50 is closer to the cost of buying 2-2.5 D10s. Basically D10s around $110, E30 II at $150, and E50 at $270.
Here is ASR reviews of each:
D10s: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-d10s-usb-dac-and-bridge-review.14859/
E30 II: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-ii-dac-review.36028/
E50: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e50-review-balanced-dac.26219/
Considering this pairing with the Cosmos ADC, I think that stepping up to at least the E30 II may be worthwhile now that it is available. It is a just under 40% more cost, meanwhile you get a good increase in specs. I think the E50 is the best at that price point for what it gives (and I like the performance in specific ways over the E30 II), but the extra $120 over the E30 II, or $160 over the D10s, would be a harder pill to swallow.
Thoughts? I believe this thread was started before the E30 II was available, or at least reviewed, while the E50 is really a different price class, so understandable being left out.
Here is ASR reviews of each:
D10s: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-d10s-usb-dac-and-bridge-review.14859/
E30 II: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-ii-dac-review.36028/
E50: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e50-review-balanced-dac.26219/
Considering this pairing with the Cosmos ADC, I think that stepping up to at least the E30 II may be worthwhile now that it is available. It is a just under 40% more cost, meanwhile you get a good increase in specs. I think the E50 is the best at that price point for what it gives (and I like the performance in specific ways over the E30 II), but the extra $120 over the E30 II, or $160 over the D10s, would be a harder pill to swallow.
Thoughts? I believe this thread was started before the E30 II was available, or at least reviewed, while the E50 is really a different price class, so understandable being left out.
IVX
Major Contributor
The only point I want to say is ES9068 has a noticeable worse IMD 19+20 vs ES9038Q2M. Also, if you have any just Ok ADC, you don't really need Cosmos ADC, Cosmos APU is enough. In other words, Cosmos APU + almost any DAC will outperform Cosmos ADC for THD, THD+N, SNR, DR. Only the IMD test requires Cosmos ADC, and frequency response up to 190k if needed(or for a high-quality recording).
Fair enough. I bought a pair of the Cosmos ADC and APU on AliExpress this morning. So either way, that is bought.
Still have not decided on DAC yet. What would you recommend regarding analog attenuation coming from an amplifier to be analyzed by the ADC?
Still have not decided on DAC yet. What would you recommend regarding analog attenuation coming from an amplifier to be analyzed by the ADC?
IVX
Major Contributor
Cosmos ADC is ready for up to 43Vrms input in the AUX connector, is that not enough?
IVX
Major Contributor
ajc9988, did you read that? https://e1dashz.wixsite.com/index/cosmos-adc
Yes, and this is the part that I missed (or more likely forgot about):
"Cosmos ADC has 2 FDA XLR inputs 1.7-10Vrms, and a tiny 2.5mm 43Vrms AUX input as a gift to DIYers who like to play with power amps(do not plug/unplug that jack when the amp is On!)." So that is why I put 10Vrms and thought attenuation, whereas the 43Vrms is there.
I have just been reading that, the stuff on the APU, and specs for different DACs (I basically used the ASR list from Amir and worked backwards from SINAD score to examine price ranges for the products in the top tier, and then dug into the specifics on each one that I could find on different types of distortion, and I'm still going back and forth trying to determine; for example, your mentioning the ES9038Q2M having less IMD 19+20 compared to the ES9068, but then needing to see, in the specific DACs whether the less IMD is effected due to having lower noise values overall for the device so that the higher end DAC with those chips may still outperform the lower end implementation, even if the distortion values are higher relative to the noise floor (if higher in absolute terms, then that is a different discussion that cuts against their consideration)). As such, it really just fell through the cracks (plus last night I was intoxicated by the time I mentioned buying the pair).
So, continuing my thinking on those three DACs (just in case my thinking helps others trying to pick a DAC):
The data from Amir on those DACs is using balanced for the input, which can be 3dB more, or rather the single ended out of the E50 is likely going to be 118 or 119, putting it in range with the E30 II, which is also single ended, but utilizes the 2x AK4493 chips. This also then raises whether or not the 19+20 IMD is significant on the E30 II. Don't have an answer for that yet. But on single ended, these two units may be closer in performance.
Meanwhile, to then get a unit for balanced connections, the D10 Balanced becomes the obvious choice. This has a similar SINAD to the E30 II single ended, but is 3dB less than the E50. But this uses the ES9038Q2M and is an excellent implementation thereof.
But, there is a bit of jitter seen in both the D10 Balanced and the E30 II that is not seen in the E50. So if planning on coax, it would likely be better to step up to the E50 to avoid the jitter while getting both SE and Balanced in a single package with excellent performance.
That brings setting up to do both to $300 for the pair of D10 Balanced and E30 II, or there is the E50 for $270.
The data from Amir on those DACs is using balanced for the input, which can be 3dB more, or rather the single ended out of the E50 is likely going to be 118 or 119, putting it in range with the E30 II, which is also single ended, but utilizes the 2x AK4493 chips. This also then raises whether or not the 19+20 IMD is significant on the E30 II. Don't have an answer for that yet. But on single ended, these two units may be closer in performance.
Meanwhile, to then get a unit for balanced connections, the D10 Balanced becomes the obvious choice. This has a similar SINAD to the E30 II single ended, but is 3dB less than the E50. But this uses the ES9038Q2M and is an excellent implementation thereof.
But, there is a bit of jitter seen in both the D10 Balanced and the E30 II that is not seen in the E50. So if planning on coax, it would likely be better to step up to the E50 to avoid the jitter while getting both SE and Balanced in a single package with excellent performance.
That brings setting up to do both to $300 for the pair of D10 Balanced and E30 II, or there is the E50 for $270.
IVX
Major Contributor
the best choice is a DAC ES9038Pro based.
KaMiKaZeCATS
Member
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- Jul 26, 2020
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Sorry to start a slightly old thread but what's the point in using a attenuator with the e1da? The input voltage is quite versatile in terms of sensitivity? Unless you are going above 43vrms I don't really see a point....
Asking since I have one and im doing measuments perfectly fine within the limitations of the e1da and I am pretty new to this.
Asking since I have one and im doing measuments perfectly fine within the limitations of the e1da and I am pretty new to this.
- Thread Starter
- #57
Already replied several times, mini jack is too tiny and there is a risk that it will make short-circuit of amplifier output, when accidentally pushed in or pulled out from the female mini jack of the Cosmos. Remember 40Vrms/4ohm makes 400W power and 10A current, and almost unlimited current when shorted, depending only on level of protection circuit design. One cannot rely on amp protection circuits. I speak based on experience, not on debate.
Some more photos:
Quality control should have been better. There is a lot of metal dust filings (see top right corner, near the screw), which might be potentially hazardous to a proper function. They may be easily removed by compressed air. It should have been done before shipping, @IVX .
And some more measurements Topping D10s/E1DA
Best Topping D10s SINAD ever, I would say.
IVX
Major Contributor
This thread has been very useful for me in developing a Cosmos-based measurement setup. However I have not had any success with the Olimex USB-ISO.
My setup is a MacBook Air (2020) running REW, Topping D10s, and the Cosmos ADC. As in several posts above, the loop Mac --> D10s --> ADC --> Mac is very noisy. Inserting the Olimex USB-ISO did not work at all (Mac --> USB-ISO --> D10s --> ADC --> Mac). The D10s is recognised and seems to work but the results were awful. I looked at the output of the D10s on a scope and could see that the signal was appearing and disappearing intermittently, and stopped completely after a few seconds. Nothing I could do would fix this, including supplying power to the USB-ISO.
So I gave up on that, and tried the Topping isolator instead (HS01). This seems to work as it should and I get pretty clean results. I still need to experiment but the D10s is showing THD+N of -108dB right now, so things are at least ok.
I don't know if my USB-ISO is faulty or if it just does not play nicely with the Mac and D10s combo but I thought I'd relate this experience in case it is helpful for others.
My setup is a MacBook Air (2020) running REW, Topping D10s, and the Cosmos ADC. As in several posts above, the loop Mac --> D10s --> ADC --> Mac is very noisy. Inserting the Olimex USB-ISO did not work at all (Mac --> USB-ISO --> D10s --> ADC --> Mac). The D10s is recognised and seems to work but the results were awful. I looked at the output of the D10s on a scope and could see that the signal was appearing and disappearing intermittently, and stopped completely after a few seconds. Nothing I could do would fix this, including supplying power to the USB-ISO.
So I gave up on that, and tried the Topping isolator instead (HS01). This seems to work as it should and I get pretty clean results. I still need to experiment but the D10s is showing THD+N of -108dB right now, so things are at least ok.
I don't know if my USB-ISO is faulty or if it just does not play nicely with the Mac and D10s combo but I thought I'd relate this experience in case it is helpful for others.
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