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Topping D10 Balanced Review (USB DAC)

phoenixsong

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It was pretty obvious from the delay and conversation after Wolf's posting that something was being awaited. Out of the possibilities there aren't any more likely than the launch of the product itself
 

raif71

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I didn't read the entire thread, but I've often wondered why the D10 models have SPDIF outputs. Why not have inputs?
My D10 is connected to my yamaha receiver both by D10 rca out and optical out. This way I have extended my receiver to accept usb as an input. I can connect my DAP/phone and have the receiver to switch between listening via rca (using d10 dac) or optical (using the receiver dac).
 

JeffGB

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@JohnYang1997 Could you please tell me if using a typical TRS to RCA cable would damage the D10 balanced? I have an Audient iD14 mkii that also has TRS balanced outputs and it is fine with the TRS to RCA cable when I am using a single ended amp. The Audient is just impedance balanced AFAIK so I am concerned the cable might short the +- outputs and damage the Dac. If it has a series resistor on the outputs that might prevent any damage when used this way? Thanks in advance!
 

Toku

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What if we use it unbalanced? Will there be a significant effect on performance?

What would be the best way to use it with Unbalanced Amp? I mean which adapter would be best to convert TRS connectors to RCA?

I see in product description, it will not support any adapter for Single Ended output. So this means we can't use it for unbalanced amps?

Am I missing anything here?

Thanks,
Simar
It is clearly stated that the balanced output of D10B can only be used with a balanced connection. In addition, Topping declares that it will not take any responsibility for troubles caused by unbalanced connection.
It's officially displayed like this, so you probably won't answer your question.
Unbalanced connections will be at your own technical discretion.
 

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restorer-john

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Great little USB only D/A converter, but totally silly idea to have SPDIF/Toslink out instead of in. Just makes no sense. Think of all the millions of people wanting to upgrade a CD/DVD/TV sound etc.
 

Angsty

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An endgame DAC? I have 12x higher priced DAC but only +2dB better on SINAD. Jitter performance of D10B seems even better.
Making me wonder if I should return my D70s; I may still have some time left on my 45 day trial period. I wanted balanced and the D70s MCA and preamp mode are of no use to me. The Bluetooth on the D70s isn’t better than my BluDento.

Hmmm, Topping has got me thinking again. Oh, wait, no coax in. I do use coax in on the D70s. *whew*
 

JohnYang1997

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@JohnYang1997 Could you please tell me if using a typical TRS to RCA cable would damage the D10 balanced? I have an Audient iD14 mkii that also has TRS balanced outputs and it is fine with the TRS to RCA cable when I am using a single ended amp. The Audient is just impedance balanced AFAIK so I am concerned the cable might short the +- outputs and damage the Dac. If it has a series resistor on the outputs that might prevent any damage when used this way? Thanks in advance!
Don't do it.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

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@amirm

Can you confirm the source stack (i.e. I assume it was just your bog standard desktop running Roon with no fancy USB cable or low noise PC?).

Just want to confirm the measurements you got were without any special care and attention to the source noise.

Thanks,

Peter
Source is a "gaming" PC running 8 core i7 870 under latest version of Windows 10. It is running Audio Precision software which saturates one core and other bits like Roon player (I listen to music using it while testing). USB connection is through the hub in my monitor. USB cable is a 6 footer from Amazon. Every DAC is tested using this same setup. So no special measures other than using the USB hub in my monitor.
 

Xyrium

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Wow, I saw you mention "balanced" outputs and had to do a double take on the rear panel. Genius move Topping, using those TRS connectors to use the same space as RCAs. Thanks Amir!
 

Ranton

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Great product, although a bit skeptical on its practical applications. My reason to get and recommend balanced DACs is to directly drive power amplifiers or powered speakers. Without an on-board volume control this become a bit less practical for that purpose.

On the other and preamps and integrated amps with balanced inputs are far less common.

But it's always positive to have affordable high performing options!
I'm with you concerning this drawback, but the one application I could see this being a killer for is driving higher-end headphone amps. A "pure DAC" with balanced outputs and no redundant functions like volume control would be optimal. I think the addition of balanced outputs combined with the performance boost over the D10s makes this a real contender. Consider, for example, that you could do a D10b+A30Pro stack for 35% cheaper than a D30Pro+A30Pro stack. Or, you could do a D10b+A90 stack for considerably less than half the cost of a D90SE+A90 stack! I would actually consider the latter, as I don't care about MQA. Other than 5 points of SINAD that I probably won't hear anyway, would I be missing anything by forgoing the D90SE for a D10b?
 

Massimo

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At this rate, I'll only own topping DACs. Lol. I'm so glad I didn't spend the money on the Khadas tone board 2 or that schiit balanced dac to get balanced going to my THX 789.

Anyone find any good 1/4" to XLRF cables? I ordered this for $11USD.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08VS9LY7L/

View attachment 142538

The Khadas Tone 2 Board is a DAC and Headphone Amp, not just a DAC, and allows you to connect to amps with both unbalanced and balanced inputs. It is also considerably smaller and tidier (no added cables) if you need a headphone amp.
 
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fieldcar

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The Khadas Tone 2 Board is a DAC and Headphone Amp, not just a DAC, and allows you to connect to amps with both unbalanced and balanced inputs.
I'm well aware of the lackluster "amp". It's also got some funky controls, super expensive proprietary cables, and odd issues with the Nyquist filters.
 

sam_adams

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@JohnYang1997 Could you please tell me if using a typical TRS to RCA cable would damage the D10 balanced? I have an Audient iD14 mkii that also has TRS balanced outputs and it is fine with the TRS to RCA cable when I am using a single ended amp. The Audient is just impedance balanced AFAIK so I am concerned the cable might short the +- outputs and damage the Dac. If it has a series resistor on the outputs that might prevent any damage when used this way? Thanks in advance!

Don't do it.

Is there something about the output circuitry in the D10B that would make Balanced TRS-to-Unbalanced RCA cables—pictured below—cause a failure in the D10B?

btoub.png


From Rane Application Note AN110, Sound System Interconnection. Output from D10B on Left. Input to other device on Right.

Other than the signal level drop, increased SINAD, and possible ground loop issues caused by going from balanced to unbalanced, this has been standard practice for decades.
 
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In case anyone wonders what my avatar represents: It's a frame grab from a Dragnet 1967 TV episode ( https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0565600/ ) in which great character actor Vic Perrin plays someone convinced that gangsters from Jupiter are after him. I identify with his role.... He is perhaps best known for being the Control Voice in the wonderful TV series The Outer Limits: THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH YOUR TELEVISION SET & etc.

I'll admit I was concerned when I saw the picture at first, and then once I recognized the context, I stopped dialing the authorities. ;)
 

Rottmannash

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A few details from the Topping website that might answer a few questions before they are asked:

ESS ES9038Q2M DAC chip as already mentioned
16-32bit/44.1-384kHz PCM and DSD64-DSD256 Native
No remote control
Includes a pair of TRS to XLR adapters, but no XLR cable
Automatic power on/off even when using an "always on" USB connection

Definitely appears to be a very good value. It has just gone to the top of my desktop system wishlist.
Will the typical remote from other Topping DACS work on it? Or does it not have RC included as a feature?
 
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