Topping Centaurus R2R DAC Review

[SMen]

Fact is that the market is flooded with DACs to the point that little has left for one of them to point out as something different.
Hence attempts like this.
Pointing to the traditional audiophile market (yes,along with its myths) is maybe a way to differentiate.

Thing is that this recipe is very strict,the R2R element alone doesn't cut it.Neither the fact that modules come from a somehow closer to this community company (Holo) who follows its unwritten rules (but not there yet,it's more of a satellite) .The first miss (to the hardcore community) is the digital VC (or the VC at all) .
I understand that they keep it for their pre,but...

And then is the fact that Topping has tied itself to the measured performance above anything else neglecting all else (despite the marketing stuff which is funny sometimes) and it's been strongly opposed the subjective stuff.Origin doesn't help either,along with some hardware failure and the fact one cannot brag a "built like a tank" device.

I don't know,I feel they should stick to things like E30,etc,it's these stuff that made them known.

digital VC? Trying to follow

 

[Sokel]

digital VC? Trying to follow

Volume control.

 

[SMen]

View attachment 414097View attachment 414098


Jitter and multitone of the Cyan 2 with oversampled DSD256 through HQPlayer. Retrieved from https://community.roonlabs.com/t/best-native-dsd-dacs-for-use-with-hqplayer/132298/

Not directly comparable though. Also DSD is handled through a different pathway on the Holo Audio board.

I am pretty sure that the Centaurus also uses two sections: one for DSD and one for PCM.

 

[antcollinet]

I am pretty sure that the Centaurus also uses two sections: one for DSD and one for PCM.

How do you R2R DSD? Surely you need to decimate it to PCM first.

 

[SMen]

In fact following on from my last post about the Centaurus using a section for DSD an another for PCM here is a question for the digital aficionados here...

Delta-Sigma Modulation - both the AKM and the ESS chips use this ... so if my understanding is correct they both ultimately convert audio signals into a 1-bit stream.

The Topping Discrete 1 bit machine does this 'discretely'. We have whole stack of op amps where 'discrete' simply is interpreted as 'better'. I'm not into bias etc here but...

Could the separate 'handling' of PCM and DSD be a factor for consideration when considering this Centaurus R2R DAC?

 

[SMen]

How do you R2R DSD? Surely you need to decimate it to PCM first.

Yes as in ... +1 ... for those who know how do these separate conversion channels work exactly? Me, I have no idea!

 

[binaryblaze]

I am pretty sure that the Centaurus also uses two sections: one for DSD and one for PCM.

yes since it uses the Cyan 2's DAC module (or a very close relative of it)

 

[Sokel]

How do you R2R DSD? Surely you need to decimate it to PCM first.

You can surely do a no DAC DSD,diyaudio has a nice thread,and take it from there:

(for those not familiar,the "no DAC" is the one on the right)

and here's another example:

TWSDAC-DSD – THE WELL Audio

www.thewellaudio.com

 

[yys310]

No, my mistake, I was wrong.
@yys310 corrected me a few posts later and wrote that it is not an R2R DAC but a DAC with a 1-bit DSM module.
I am no longer sure whether I got this information from a Topping employee at the trade fair stand or whether I had confused it with another DAC.

The rest should be correct though.

Is the thread deleted? I looked up my posts log and can't find the post...
I did remember correcting someone about the D90 discrete or D900 though.

 

[SMen]

I wonder how the DSD section of the Topping R2R using the Holo plug in, differs from the 1 bit discrete on the Topping D90 Discrete ? ...

 

[antcollinet]

Could the separate 'handling' of PCM and DSD be a factor for consideration when considering this Centaurus R2R DAC?

I don't see how. The only thing that matters is the signal on the output.

Plus if I am correct - in order for this DAC to do an R2R conversion on DSD it must first be converted to PCM. In which case, it is not so much a separate handling, but an extra step.

 

[antcollinet]

You can surely do a no DAC DSD,diyaudio has a nice thread,and take it from there:



View attachment 414148

(for those not familiar,the "no DAC" is the one on the right)

and here's another example:

TWSDAC-DSD – THE WELL Audio

www.thewellaudio.com

View attachment 414152

True - but then the user wouldn't be getting all that R2R goodness.

Seriously - there would probably be major complaints.

 

[NTTY]

I'm pretty sure most ASR readers wouldn't fall for R2R magic - at least those that agree with the principles of the site.

This is a bias.
If you’re into the science of this site, you know this DAC is way beyond what you can hear, and that as an R2R discrete DAC, this is crazy good.

 

[Roland68]

Is the thread deleted? I looked up my posts log and can't find the post...
I did remember correcting someone about the D90 discrete or D900 though.

#31

 

[Robbo99999]

Search thread titles for "r2r". You might be surprised .

Ha, ok, I'll take your word for it!

 

[Robbo99999]

This is a bias.
If you’re into the science of this site, you know this DAC is way beyond what you can hear, and that as an R2R discrete DAC, this is crazy good.

How do you mean? Even if is beyond "hearing" then why would an ASR reader that understands the principles of the site, why would they choose to buy an R2R DAC that is expensive as well as technically not measuring as well as other better value DACS? Why would such a person buy an R2R DAC when the main reason people buy R2R is for "magic". I'm not really sure what you mean?

 

[welwynnick]

Even if is beyond "hearing" then why would an ASR reader that understands the principles of the site, why would they choose to buy an R2R DAC that is expensive as well as technically not measuring as well as other better value DACS?

I've been wondering for a while why this is being discussed on ASR at all.

 

[Purité Audio]

It would be perfect to dispel R2R ‘magic’ if one were of a mean disposition, which I am.

Keith

 

[NTTY]

How do you mean? Even if is beyond "hearing" then why would an ASR reader that understands the principles of the site, why would they choose to buy an R2R DAC that is expensive as well as technically not measuring as well as other better value DACS? Why would such a person buy an R2R DAC when the main reason people buy R2R is for "magic". I'm not really sure what you mean?

If you’d need a purse, why would you buy a Louis Vuitton?

There’s no magic behind R2R conversion. It does the job as shown by Amir. So why not? Because it’s too expensive?

What to prefer: a per the books implementation of an ESS or AKM which delivers 120dB SINAD as expected, or a discrete somehow unique R2R not too far 111dB SINAD? Let people decide.

There’s life beyond pure performance based on one single metric. If you want inexpensive super high performance DACs, you have plenty.

There’s no “if you’re into science”, you just want to classify people in two colors. But sorry, there’s room for a rainbow of us.

 

[Overseas]

No rainbow please.
Lets stick to audio.