Topping Centaurus R2R DAC Review

[VientoB]

Typical YT reviewer audio buzzword bingo. Will we ever get rid of these guys and those keeping them afloat by patreon?

All the YouTube reviewers who focus on DACs are just wafflers. Watching them is a good way to completely waste your time.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

It's a great piece of hardware. But we went too much off topic in this thread.

Sorry, my fault.

 

[m8o]

RE 'Go to "non-oversampling" mode and ultrasonic noise shoots through the noise, causing that off-the-charts green line. Best not to have a tweeter that attempts to go above 20 kHz!'

...and a hotter amp if it (and preamp if you're using one) has the bandwidth.

 

[welwynnick]

RE 'Go to "non-oversampling" mode and ultrasonic noise shoots through the noise, causing that off-the-charts green line. Best not to have a tweeter that attempts to go above 20 kHz!'

I don't think it's a risk that's necessarily confined to NOS DACs, there are several OS DACs with a variety of linear phase and minimum phase filters.
They have a slow filter option that's not as extreme as NOS, but still pretty liberal with the filter.
The Topping D90 III SABRE or Marantz NA-11S1 or MBL N31, for example, have a slow filter that doesn't bottom out until until 30-40kHz.
They were the first three tests I looked at and there are may others just like this. It's breaking the rules of digital audio, but I'm not sure it's necessarily that big a problem.
Topping:...............................................Marantz:.......................................... MBL:

Edit: Esoteric go further. In the default ORG (original) mode, the N-01 appears to have no reconstruction filtering at all, and measures like a NOS DAC.
There's no pre- or post-ringing on the impulse, and no image filtering, below. You can see the image of the 19kHz tone at about 25kHz is virtually unattenuated.

Many Esoteric players and DACs do have an FPGA controlled Master Sound Discrete DAC, but that's still a delta-sigma DAC, not R2R.
However, the N-01 (above) actually has an AKM AK4497 IC DAC instead. Esoteric converters with the Discrete DAC have a similar ORG filter.
It still appears to behave just like a good NOS DAC though, such as the Holo May, below:

Edit 2: I found a few other (expensive) converters that show the same behaviour.
First the TEAC UD-701N streaming D/A preamplifier, with up-sampling off / native:

Second, the iFi Audio NEO Stream streaming D/A processor , with "Bit Perfect Filter":

Third, the Métronome Technologie AQWO SACD/CD transport and D/A processor, with the Super Slow Roll-Off filter:

 

[raif71]

All the YouTube reviewers who focus on DACs are just wafflers. Watching them is a good way to completely waste your time.

Not necessarily so. For example in the video I just posted the 3 DACs measure extremely well so for me, watching the videos may make up my mind on what other features that may need considering. In the Centaurus, there is the feature of NOS which is not present in the DS DAC and it is fun to see reaction to this feature so it is not a complete waste of time. YMMV.

 

[R2R]

Dare use my likeness Topping!

 

[bigLP]

This is a question for students of social psychology, suggestibility, and marketing.

Its a social construct really. Enough people with enough influence said they were good and everyone else just agreed. We here at ASR are trying to correct these things.

 

[DualTriode]

 

[jazzfusion79]

This is one of the best examples of R2R currently. They should just remove the the NOS 2 filter setting altogether for public safety, just like mandatory seatbelts and other regulations pure dunning Kruger territory to be fa filter tinkerer imho .

R2R is usually not this good so kudos for the very real engineering effort , but why ?

listeners enjoy it , why not?

 

[VientoB]

listeners enjoy it , why not?

Audiophiles drink the R2R coolade

 

[jazzfusion79]

Audiophiles drink the R2R coolade

so what, people like what they like . And sometimes it's koolaid and that's fine too.

 

[VientoB]

so what, people like what they like . And sometimes it's koolaid and that's fine too.

It's fine as long as you realise that's what it is

 

[boxerfan88]

so what, people like what they like .

Fully agree. I find the recent "audiophile" bashing on ASR a bit much these days.
Scientifically lamp cord works fine as a power cord, and I choose to buy Belden power cable, it's like so what?
Or, cheap monoprice XLR cable works just fine, and I choose to buy Mogami cable with Neutrik ends, so what?
If people wanna buy R2R DAC and enjoy the harmonic spikes, so what?
This Topping R2R DAC is really well engineered, IMHO.
I find some of the posts these days can be quite judgemental, or dismissive, or condescending.
Just saying ...

 

[pkane]

Fully agree. I find the recent "audiophile" bashing on ASR a bit much these days.
Scientifically lamp cord works fine as a power cord, and I choose to buy Belden power cable, it's like so what?
Or, cheap monoprice XLR cable works just fine, and I choose to buy Mogami cable with Neutrik ends, so what?
I find some of the posts these days can be quite judgemental, or dismissive, or condescending.
Just saying ...

Subjectivist audiophiles take any disagreement with their golden ears as “bashing”. Just sayin’…

 

[boxerfan88]

Subjectivist audiophiles take any disagreement with their golden ears as “bashing”. Just sayin’…

See the generalization & labeling. Really sad state.

 

[pkane]

See the generalization & labeling. Really sad state.

Based on years of experience interacting on audio forums. Not a scientific fact, just my opinion.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

This Topping R2R DAC is really well engineered, IMHO.

I don't think anyone disputes this. I'm very impressed with how well it works. For a lot less money, you can buy a better DAC (with less distortion at the key music levels; better short and long-term stability), but you probably wouldn't hear any difference!

If people wanna buy R2R DAC and enjoy the harmonic spikes, so what?

R2R DACs themselves don't produce "harmonic spikes", failing to use the essential reconstruction filter, does. R2R DACs, properly filtered can be quite clean.

Prospective purchasers should have it clearly and regularly explained to them that they can do a better for their money, and the filter-less "improvements" they hear are not improvements but degradations. Also, some of the filter-less artefacts are likely to be audible intermodulation, not harmonic. People who like listening to systems which are degraded should not expect their biases to be supported by a science-based discussion board but should expect their reasoning to be challenged.

Scientifically lamp cord works fine as a power cord, and I choose to buy Belden power cable, it's like so what?
Or, cheap monoprice XLR cable works just fine, and I choose to buy Mogami cable with Neutrik ends, so what?

But there are also scientific reasons to support your choices. I also use Mogami with Neutrik. I don't do anything special with power cords, but I do inspect them for quality and during use, for wear or other concerns.

 

[unpluggged]

I find the recent "audiophile" bashing on ASR

Audiophilia is a socially harmful phenomenon akin to alcoholism and should be exposed and fought. And it's not a recent thing here.

 

[sonci99]

Imagine what the conclusions would be if this was a Chord dac..

 

[SMen]

Audiophilia is a socially harmful phenomenon akin to alcoholism and should be exposed and fought. And it's not a recent thing here.

Here is a different kind of scientific exposé. He's going to be reviewing the Centaurus - gives an initial impression on the Centaurus a few videos before this one.

I have found the measurements approach here very useful and enlightening. I'm all for debate, except when the debate itself becomes somewhat toxic, akin to ... etc.

I'll be comparing the Centaurus to a much, much cheaper and excellent sounding (I think) Dual ES9038Q2M DAC with Amanero usb board.