Topping Centaurus R2R DAC Review

[Bob101]

I think I'll keep my E70.

Martin

Same here. I use it as a pre-amp, and the volume-knob is essential to me. If I still used mainly integrated amps, I would still use my E50...

 

[Purité Audio]

Sure, My point was that most of the tweakos think there is something magical about legacy brands and that Chinese manufacturers of reasonably priced components don't have any of that magic that the Stereophile/Absolute Sound subjective reviewers claim to find in five and six-figure gear.

To be fair they have to if they wish to remain employed.
Keith

 

[Robbo99999]

I understand your POV.

I just think there are people not on a budget and willing to spend “stupid” money on a device as long as it delivers. On ASR, it means a SINAD that puts the device into the excellent ranking category of Amir, which this one achieves.

Well, ok, but I think even people that don't have to have a budget don't like to spend more than they need to for a device; anyway, the point is clear, it's expensive for what it is and doesn't measure excellently whilst using a non-sensical R2R philosophy that hamstrings it's performance.

 

[Sokel]

Here at ASR we admired the excellence of engineering last time I checked,price is irrelevant.
If one can understand the challenges behind an R2R design all we can do is admire Holo's engineering,118dB SINAD is stratosphere (Topping felt a little short but not much) .
People here used to see R2R doing 70's SINAD probably sticked to that without looking around.Nope.There's obviously lots of ways to reach the same point.

 

[Robbo99999]

Here at ASR we admired the excellence of engineering last time I checked,price is irrelevant.
If one can understand the challenges behind an R2R design all we can do is admire Holo's engineering,118dB SINAD is stratosphere (Topping felt a little short but not much) .
People here used to see R2R doing 70's SINAD probably sticked to that without looking around.Nope.There's obviously lots of ways to reach the same point.

Lol, are you defending this product!? To be honest I think you have to be a bit deluded to defend this product.

 

[Sokel]

Lol, are you defending this product!?

Not by a long shot!
I'm defending the engineering team who busted the myth "R2R can only do 70'-80's"
That's a whole other world.

 

[Robbo99999]

Not by a long shot!
I'm defending the engineering team who busted the myth "R2R can only do 70'-80's"
That's a whole other world.

Who gives a **** if they managed to create an expensive & averagely performing product whilst purposefully tying one hand behind their back - it's just stupid.

 

[fatoldgit]

‘Audiophiles’ belief that an earlier version of something is always better, Cd was better than streaming, vinyl was better than CD, it’s a men of a certain age, issue.
Keith

You ASR people just dont get it do you (/s just in case)

According to many persons, including golden ear reviewers, R2R DAC's (in this case a BorderPatrol DAC) "do no harm" (putting aside any rolled off HF response, aliasing back into the audible zone etc) and provide a sound that is "Clear, open, transparent, sound flows forth like sweet water poured from the hands of friendly, loving gods"

If I could wax as lyrical as this reviewer can, I could start making candles.

And of course, the review summary needs to take a dig at us objectivists:

"Measurements, schmeasurements—do yourself a favor and try this BorderPatrol DAC. Yes, it’s a Redbook-only converter, and yes, it sports NOS chips. And so what? Chances are, you’ve never heard digital like this, and certainly at nowhere near its price. There is no oversampling, no up-sampling, and no filtering. This is “do no harm,” taken seriously. Add a choke-input and tube rectified power supply, and forget David, here you have an Audio Goliath. Clear, open, transparent, sound flows forth like sweet water poured from the hands of friendly, loving gods. According to the musicians who made it, this was how your music was supposed to sound"



Peter

 

[Sokel]

Who give a **** if they managed to create an expensive & averagely performing product whilst purposefully tying one hand behind their back - it's just stupid.

I don't think it's expensive in general.It may be expensive as a Topping,the particular one,but at Holo's implementation I actual think is more than decent price-wise.
Price is such a broad matter we will never agree.

 

[totti1965]

@Roland68 wrote:
The D90 III Discrete is an r2r DAC and is therefore primarily intended for a different group of buyers, such as the Gustard A26 and R26. So it is an additional option in the same price range.
The first D90 was replaced by the D90SE because AKM DAC chips were not available, the D90LE was just the additional version without MQA (at the customer's request).
In the end, Topping only released a successor to the D90SE after 3 years.

The D90 III Discrete is an r2r DAC and is therefore primarily intended for a different group of buyers, such as the Gustard A26 and R26. So it is an additional option in the same price range.
The first D90 was replaced by the D90SE because AKM DAC chips were not available, the D90LE was just the additional version without MQA (at the customer's request).
In the end, Topping only released a successor to the D90SE after 3 years.

@SoundsGood2Me (this is because you liked my post #60 from yesterday): Roland (and me) were wrong with the assumption that the D90 III Discrete is R2R. Please Look at post #62!

 

[Robbo99999]

I don't think it's expensive in general.It may be expensive as a Topping,the particular one,but at Holo's implementation I actual think is more than decent price-wise.
Price is such a broad matter we will never agree.

(There's no point in comparing it to price performance of other R2R DACS because who cares about whether it is R2R or IC, what matters is the performance & price, not the fact they chose an inherently hamstrung technology to implement into the DAC in the first place & then suceeded in making it perform adequately for a high price.)

 

[antcollinet]

because who cares about whether it is R2R or IC

Some people do. You are not everyone. Nor am I.

If this is as stupid a product as you believe, it will achieve no sales.

I wouldn't buy one. I have no illusions regarding the value of R2R. However as an engineer, I can also admire the engineering achievement of meeting the product managers goal of an R2R dac that performs this well. Bear in mind is it not the engineers who decide what product will be developed.

 

[unpluggged]

However as an engineer, I can also admire the engineering achievement of meeting the product managers goal of an R2R dac that performs this well.

As an engineer, I consider an achievement a design that matches required specifications and performance with the least possible effort, complexity and cost (both in design and production). Fancy esoteric gimmicks have nothing to do with engineering, they are more akin to building Eiffel tower models from matchsticks: impressive and competitive, but short-lived, expensive and useless.

 

[Sokel]

As an engineer, I consider an achievement a design that matches required specifications and performance with the least possible effort, complexity and cost (both in design and production). Fancy esoteric gimmicks have nothing to do with engineering, they are more akin to building Eiffel tower models from matchsticks: impressive and competitive, but short-lived, expensive and useless.

That's for the bare minimum.
By the same school of thought Shah Jahan could shovel a 2 x 3 m hole to throw Mumtaz in it and be done with that.
He built Taj Mahal instead.

Audio is a hobby,it's fun!What you describe is suit for necessities where the bare minimum is an achievement.
Show me any other hobby where the bare minimum is enough and I will correct myself at once.

 

[Short38]

Why did they bother?

 

[win]

Topping must have gone to great pains in building these, precision of the parts in the resistor network is important to performance of R2R dacs. But, why bother?

I like this premise. To me. It means that Topping wanted the engineering challenge.

 

[BeeKay]

What’s this really about? Most here will fail to tell a R2R from a Delta-Sigma. Assuming both are decently designed. So, what’s the point for bashing? Price? Up to each individual.

I mean I even can enjoy vinyl - knowing it’s technically useless compared to ditigal. It’s a hobby. Other aspects than engineering dogma may play a role, too. And as long we are honest about the technology we all can take our personal decisions and be happy if we want to…

 

[Sonic-Wall]

Honestly, I do not understand the whole discussion around this R2R DAC.
Topping developed for the first time a new R2R DAC with a good performance.
I think this is perfectly fine, because there is obviously a market for that.

There are other companies that replace an AKM chip with a mediocre ESS DAC chip and add another few gimmicks to the DAC and promote this product as the greatest invention on earth. Of course, they charge significantly more for this „brand new“ product.
These are the companies that should be criticized or ignored in this forum, due to zero innovation.

 

[VientoB]

I like this premise. To me. It means that Topping wanted the engineering challenge.

But they just bought in some Holo Audio ladder modules.

 

[SoundsGood2Me]

@SoundsGood2Me (this is because you liked my post #60 from yesterday): Roland (and me) were wrong with the assumption that the D90 III Discrete is R2R. Please Look at post #62!

Thanks for the reply, yes I am aware that the actual R2R DAC is a module made by Holo Audio. interesting stuff.

But! -118dB S/N is still better than best hearing ability at -115, and the only sources that many listen to is CD which is -96 S/N so no modern DAC will be challenged. They're even only moderately challenged by the only commercial success at HiRes which was Sony's DSD128, which amazes me when I cue up Roger Watters The Wall Live and I'm, literally, standing in the croud right at the soundbooth. You can hear every hand clap and the band in 3D - I advise this album even only CD.

Hope you and yours have a Rockin' New Year! Pic not related.