Topping B200 Monoblock Amplifier Review

[SoySalsaPicante]

So, I just received a pair of these. I have the Topping Pre90 with extension in another rig and like it. The Topping gear generally measures well so at this price, it just made sense to grab a pair, of B200s especially if I could beat tariffs etc. In a medium-sized listening room, I'd previously run a Fosi Zd3 DAC/preamp signaling a pair of Fosi Za3 amps in mono mode. These were driving Elac Unifi Reference mains and a Hsu subwoofer. Really liked this rig, but was itching to swap out the Za3 for the superior B200s. The input impedance of the B200s is a bit on the lower side. I wondered if the Fosi Zd3 would have sufficient current to properly power the B200s with this speaker combo. The short answer was no, at least not in the low-gain setting of the B200s. So I switched to high gain with considerable improvement -- though I still think the original pair of Fosi Za3 sounded a bit more full and balanced. My Elacs have nice detail with the B200s but just seem a tad thin overall. I realize such descriptive adjectives might be vague, certainly very subjective, but I was a little surprised. This might also be an A/B amp vs D amp issue. Not sure. I think the B200s are still a great value. I post this just to emphasize what many others say, that the preamp you mate with the 200s matters. The Fosi Zd3 seems to be "able", but it's not effortless. Even at 50% of the Zd3 "preamp" volume band, I'm probably only at 65-70 dB of sound intensity. 100% of the volume band is probably at about 95-100 dB?? Lounder than I would ever normally listen .....but not by a huge margin. So the Fosi Zd3 "can" feed the B200s but not with much headroom a lot of head room.

ZA3s (at full volume) have a higher gain than even the High Gain setting on B200s. ZA3s also have load-dependent frequency response, and, assuming you're doing volume-matched listening comparisons (which I can't tell if you are--you can use a free smartphone app like DecibelX if you want to try without spending a dime), any difference you're hearing (where B200s allegedly sound thinner) most likely has to do with the ZA3s rolling off at the top end whereas B200s are remaining flat, giving an illusion of a thinner sound when comparing them.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Nice... nothing standing out, basically SOTA measurements wise. Power vs distortion is very clean, multi-tone great and plenty of power on tap. Thanks for the in depth testing Amir.

Pics;

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JSmith

Nice to see quality parts in there—Nichicon caps especially. No bargain basement ones that will bulge, leak, or worse as the product ages.

 

[peixe]

Noob question: Can I use this amp to feed a guitar cabinet? How is the flatness of this amp compared to traditional "FRFR" characteristic of "linear" guitar amps?

 

[JSmith]

in my opinion very subjective; your opinion?

Not watched it... however if there are no measurements or controlled comparison, then it is just subjective opinion based on nothing solid. Unless the video covers functionality, build quality etc., but I assume it's about "the sound".


JSmith

 

[Sokel]

So, I just received a pair of these. I have the Topping Pre90 with extension in another rig and like it. The Topping gear generally measures well so at this price, it just made sense to grab a pair, of B200s especially if I could beat tariffs etc. In a medium-sized listening room, I'd previously run a Fosi Zd3 DAC/preamp signaling a pair of Fosi Za3 amps in mono mode. These were driving Elac Unifi Reference mains and a Hsu subwoofer. Really liked this rig, but was itching to swap out the Za3 for the superior B200s. The input impedance of the B200s is a bit on the lower side. I wondered if the Fosi Zd3 would have sufficient current to properly power the B200s with this speaker combo. The short answer was no, at least not in the low-gain setting of the B200s. So I switched to high gain with considerable improvement -- though I still think the original pair of Fosi Za3 sounded a bit more full and balanced. My Elacs have nice detail with the B200s but just seem a tad thin overall. I realize such descriptive adjectives might be vague, certainly very subjective, but I was a little surprised. This might also be an A/B amp vs D amp issue. Not sure. I think the B200s are still a great value. I post this just to emphasize what many others say, that the preamp you mate with the 200s matters. The Fosi Zd3 seems to be "able", but it's not effortless. Even at 50% of the Zd3 "preamp" volume band, I'm probably only at 65-70 dB of sound intensity. 100% of the volume band is probably at about 95-100 dB?? Lounder than I would ever normally listen .....but not by a huge margin. So the Fosi Zd3 "can" feed the B200s but not with much headroom a lot of head room.

Regardless of anything else, gain-staging is the most important thing when designing a system.
It should start as a detailed equation with all factors in mind.

Mixing and maxing can work, but only by luck.
Having a way to check both elctrically and acoustically at every step is not the worst idea either. Doesn't have to be an AP or a Klippel, basic gear can do the trick.
There's a gazillion things that can go wrong and some usually do, levels is absolutely one of them.

Edit: it's not only the output that matters, there's gear around who can have THD well below 100dB when fed by 1V for example but can do 60dB when fed by 2V, both older and new.
A way to check is mandatory.

 

[ohmywatt]

Regardless of anything else, gain-staging is the most important thing when designing a system.
It should start as a detailed equation with all factors in mind.

Mixing and maxing can work, but only by luck.
Having a way to check both elctrically and acoustically at every step is not the worst idea either. Doesn't have to be an AP or a Klippel, basic gear can do the trick.
There's a gazillion things that can go wrong and some usually do, levels is absolutely one of them.

Edit: it's not only the output that matters, there's gear around who can have THD well below 100dB when fed by 1V for example but can do 60dB when fed by 2V, both older and new.
A way to check is mandatory.

I'm still trying to figure out gain staging. Increase gain if needed upwards in the chain (phono stage for example) and set gain on the amplifier as low as possible to achieve maximum headroom in order to mitigate distortion/noise? Is this a good rule of thumb? How does Vrms between components play into this? Most modern consumer components are rated at 4 Vrms compared to 20+ Vrms for "pro-audio" equipment. From my limited understanding, pairing equipment rated at high Vrms numbers will be beneficial. Is this correct?

 

[misterdog]

I'm still trying to figure out gain staging.

Basically all correct, see attached from Toping Pre 90 where distortion falls with increased Vout. Though not all components may follow this, your phono out for example.
Topping DAC's usually have switchable 4 or 5V output, with 'better' SINAD from the 5V, Amir measures the 4V because people say this should be the 'standard' which is rubbish.

Benchmark DACs, such as the DAC3 series, have a factory-set output voltage of approximately 12.28 V RMS (24 dBu), suitable for professional studio use.

As we can see distortion falls towards the maximum 17V.

I currently use the B200 to feed my Quad 989 ESL's, and I'm very impressed.
So much so that I've ordered B100 to try at low gain which is 0dB ! so acting as a unity gain buffer, in order to utilise maximum Vout from my Pre90.
I measured my speakers Vin at only 3/5V giving 70/80dB SPL at my listening position 2Metres away.

I've no idea if the B100 will be a benefit, but the noise from B100 at low gain is 0.7uVrms compared to 2.3uVrms with B200.

 

[Sokel]

I'm still trying to figure out gain staging. Increase gain if needed upwards in the chain (phono stage for example) and set gain on the amplifier as low as possible to achieve maximum headroom in order to mitigate distortion/noise? Is this a good rule of thumb? How does Vrms between components play into this? Most modern consumer components are rated at 4 Vrms compared to 20+ Vrms for "pro-audio" equipment. From my limited understanding, pairing equipment rated at high Vrms numbers will be beneficial. Is this correct?

You can only know if you measure.
Though you can get a good picture here:

'The Signal Chain: How do noise and distortion propagate through my system?'

Apr 24, 2022

This article is to explore how noise and distortion change through our system, and how different components can influence the final output.

<Note 1: This article assumes some knowledge of performance terms, what frequency response and harmonics are, and so forth. There are other articles, many of which are linked in my signature, that can provide the background for these terms.>

<Note 2: This article is very long. There are not any good shortcuts to understanding the problem and complexity of signal chain analyses. Trying to reduce years of education and practice into a few posts on the...

• DonH56
• Replies: 53
• Forum: Audio Reference Library

• 

 

[Ajaxlegends]

Hi all,

I want to get the Topping B200 but I want to use it with my Wiim Ultra. Can I use XLR to RCA cable from the Topping B200 to the Wiim Ultra without damaging anything? And then put the Wiim at 2v?

Thanks in advance.

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

Hi all,

I want to get the Topping B200 but I want to use it with my Wiim Ultra. Can I use XLR to RCA cable from the Topping B200 to the Wiim Ultra without damaging anything? And then put the Wiim at 2v?

Thanks in advance.

Just use these cables and you'll be fine:

Buckeye Amps Cables

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

 

[Ajaxlegends]

Just use these cables and you'll be fine:

Buckeye Amps Cables

Buckeye Amps utilizes the most advanced audio amplifier technologies available. Authorized seller for Hypex and Purifi Class D amplifiers. Based in the US. Free shipping and worldwide service!

www.buckeyeamp.com

Cheers! I'm in Europe so I assume any cheap RCA to XLR I can get on Amazon will do?

And can I use a 3,5mm splitter cable to connect the 12V trigger to both mono amps from one trigger out from the Wiim Ultra?

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

Cheers! I'm in Europe so I assume any cheap RCA to XLR I can get on Amazon will do?

And can I use a 3,5mm splitter cable to connect the 12V trigger to both mono amps from one trigger out from the Wiim Ultra?

Yes, a 3.5mm splitter will work fine. That’s how I do it.

I am not 100% confident on said inexpensive RCA to XLR cables. I have seen comments from much more knowledgeable members stating that not all RCA to XLR cables are wired the same/will work and I don’t want to tell you something that risks damaging your not inexpensive monoblocs.

 

[Ajaxlegends]

Yes, a 3.5mm splitter will work fine. That’s how I do it.

I am not 100% confident on said inexpensive RCA to XLR cables. I have seen comments from much more knowledgeable members stating that not all RCA to XLR cables are wired the same/will work and I don’t want to tell you something that risks damaging your not inexpensive monoblocs.

Perfect!

I will search for a better cable tomorrow, it's kind of limited to Audioquest or Amazon here.

 

[theREALdotnet]

Perfect!

I will search for a better cable tomorrow, it's kind of limited to Audioquest or Amazon here.

This cable from Topping will work, though it seems more expensive than the Buckeye one:

TOPPING TCRT1 RCA - TRS Cable

shenzhenaudio.com: professional headphone, earphone, amplifier, dac, decoder, hifi player, cable supermarket. you will find good price here.

shenzhenaudio.com

It's very short (for Topping stacks), in case that's what you're after.

 

[Ajaxlegends]

This cable from Topping will work, though it seems more expensive than the Buckeye one:

TOPPING TCRT1 RCA - TRS Cable

shenzhenaudio.com: professional headphone, earphone, amplifier, dac, decoder, hifi player, cable supermarket. you will find good price here.

shenzhenaudio.com

It's very short (for Topping stacks), in case that's what you're after.

Thank you, didn't realize TRS would fit as well in the XLR from Topping. Never had that cable. I think I could make 125CM work!

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

This cable from Topping will work, though it seems more expensive than the Buckeye one:

TOPPING TCRT1 RCA - TRS Cable

shenzhenaudio.com: professional headphone, earphone, amplifier, dac, decoder, hifi player, cable supermarket. you will find good price here.

shenzhenaudio.com

It's very short (for Topping stacks), in case that's what you're after.

Not the hero we deserve, but the hero that we need!

 

[babadono]

re. unbalanced to balanced.
They need to be wired correctly..

https://www.jensen-transformers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/an003.pdf

see figure 2.1...and pay attention...an ohmmeter can/will read that it is done properly even if incorrect. You must visually inspect that is is done correctly.

 

[Ajaxlegends]

re. unbalanced to balanced.
They need to be wired correctly..

https://www.jensen-transformers.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/an003.pdf

see figure 2.1...and pay attention...an ohmmeter can/will read that it is done properly even if incorrect. You must visually inspect that is is done correctly.

I'm not very technical so not sure if I would spot it if it's done incorrectly.

Would this cable work or be a risk? They also have it in TRS to RCA. (https://www.amazon.nl/gp/product/B0BX5WQHYM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A11WL42X61W6HW&th=1)

Otherwise I'll just get the Topping cable for 4x the price to be safe.

 

[Panelhead]

Basically all correct, see attached from Toping Pre 90 where distortion falls with increased Vout. Though not all components may follow this, your phono out for example.
Topping DAC's usually have switchable 4 or 5V output, with 'better' SINAD from the 5V, Amir measures the 4V because people say this should be the 'standard' which is rubbish.

Benchmark DACs, such as the DAC3 series, have a factory-set output voltage of approximately 12.28 V RMS (24 dBu), suitable for professional studio use.

As we can see distortion falls towards the maximum 17V.

I currently use the B200 to feed my Quad 989 ESL's, and I'm very impressed.
So much so that I've ordered B100 to try at low gain which is 0dB ! so acting as a unity gain buffer, in order to utilise maximum Vout from my Pre90.
I measured my speakers Vin at only 3/5V giving 70/80dB SPL at my listening position 2Metres away.

I've no idea if the B100 will be a benefit, but the noise from B100 at low gain is 0.7uVrms compared to 2.3uVrms with B200.

You will run out of system gain running the Topping dac with the B100 in low gain mode. If I understand, the gain is one. So with a dac that can output 5 volts, that is output of 5 volts from the B100’s. With a four ohm speaker that is 6 watts. Eight ohm is 3 watts.
I run my B100’s in low gain mode now. Set the RAW-MDA1 around -10 to -15dB attenuation running balanced output. But speakers are 105dB at 1 watt. Couple watts is overkill.
With speakers that have efficiency around 90dB the dac would need to be set around 0dB. Not sure this still would be loud enough for most listeners.
Course using a pro interface with 12 volt output you will get 36 watts. For peaks.
Think the low gain setting on the B100 is for measurement purposes. And horn speakers.

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

You will run out of system gain running the Topping dac with the B100 in low gain mode. If I understand, the gain is one. So with a dac that can output 5 volts, that is output of 5 volts from the B100’s. With a four ohm speaker that is 6 watts. Eight ohm is 3 watts.
I run my B100’s in low gain mode now. Set the RAW-MDA1 around -10 to -15dB attenuation running balanced output. But speakers are 105dB at 1 watt. Couple watts is overkill.
With speakers that have efficiency around 90dB the dac would need to be set around 0dB. Not sure this still would be loud enough for most listeners.
Course using a pro interface with 12 volt output you will get 36 watts. For peaks.
Think the low gain setting on the B100 is for measurement purposes. And horn speakers.

Can also use a Topping L70 for gain staging; it has, “cleaner gain,” so put an L70 in (between the RAW-MDA1 & the B100s) and set it to High Gain, then leave B100 on Low or Medium Gain (since, in Amir’s testing, Medium Gain on B100 had virtually negligible hit to performance over Low Gain).