Topping B200 Monoblock Amplifier Review

[RickS]

Several posts were deleted here due to linking to monetized youtube content.

Also the original post lacked a objective summary. If you are posting a link to offsite content, please prepare the summary first. As you do, please consider the value of content to the overall membership. Thanks!

 

[babadono]

Yea but its fun to make fun of other "experts" subjective reviews

 

[whoever]

Ok....tu put on some more oil on the fire....

Have had it now for a couple of weeks.

I've had a couple of power amps, from Advance Paris (AB), from Nuprime (D), from Mytek (D)...had the Mytek for the longest period, but always missed something of body which i remembered from the Advance at the beginning.
The Topping is beyond all of these i heard until now. The separation and depht and scene is absolutely astonishing. I agree with iiwi reviews especially on one point: the music never dies....every single note seems to have a much longer life than before, and this breaks the boundaries of everything. I have never heard such clarity neither.
For those who have it....i have listened to the "He's Simple, He's Dumb, He's The Pilot" from Grandaddy 15 times today because i was unable to move in the middle of this sheer beauty!
My wide doesn't like this band....she sat with me and stayed for two rounds and said...."ok....i get it!"

 

[BeeKay]

Even fairly old (about 59) but pristine recordings (engineer: Fred Plaut) absolutely shine and make me want to listen into more and more details.

 

[whoever]

same....getting older...45....listening to all this gets me idea in the head to throw everything over board and become a musician !

 

[Interstellar]

Hello folks!

Is anyone using this as a headphone amplifer with something else as a pre-out to control the volume?

I know it's a thing with products like the Benchmar AHB2 but I'm curious to know how this one performs given the far lower price point, granting an easier path to monoblock usage.

 

[nice-n-easy]

Six months later and I’m still very happy with the B200’s. Reading all the comments, it’s great to see that all the owners are enjoying these wonderful amps. It’s a great feeling making the right choice when spending money in this hobby.
It’s a shame that the tariffs have squandered a great value proposition these amps offer. Hopefully they can make a reasonable tariff deal happen so more people are able to enjoy these amps because the current price after tariffs is truly ridiculous. I’m looking to buy the upcoming Topping DX5 II when it’s released but these tariffs might ruin those plans.

 

[BeeKay]

Consider spending some time in old Europe. Tax, shipping, and a worry-free two-year European product warranty are included. This means you’ll deal with your dealers here, eliminating any further hassle.

 

[sk8ordie]

Ok....tu put on some more oil on the fire....

Have had it now for a couple of weeks.

I've had a couple of power amps, from Advance Paris (AB), from Nuprime (D), from Mytek (D)...had the Mytek for the longest period, but always missed something of body which i remembered from the Advance at the beginning.
The Topping is beyond all of these i heard until now. The separation and depht and scene is absolutely astonishing. I agree with iiwi reviews especially on one point: the music never dies....every single note seems to have a much longer life than before, and this breaks the boundaries of everything. I have never heard such clarity neither.
For those who have it....i have listened to the "He's Simple, He's Dumb, He's The Pilot" from Grandaddy 15 times today because i was unable to move in the middle of this sheer beauty!
My wide doesn't like this band....she sat with me and stayed for two rounds and said...."ok....i get it!"

Agree with you. Ive had mine since December and theyre perhaps my favourite amps Ive had, of many amps. As you say, the detail and clarity is something special. Running them with Harbeth speakers and don’t feel the need to change anything for the first time in a while.

I also like the three inputs. Have my streamer in one; EAR phono stage in two and DJ setup into three. No need for a preamp. It’s great.

Picked up a new pair from a local hifi store on sale for $1738AUD. Pretty happy.

 

[board]

Both hypothesis are full correct. But, because some older generations of Wilson Audio Watt/Puppy Speakers will go down to 1.6 Ohm or even 1.2 Ohm - it may be that the Topping B200 is not the right amplifier for them, even if the B200´s output resistance is very very low. The B200 doesn’t like complex load under 2 Ohm.

But for 99.8 % of the speakers out there, the Topping B200 is quite a perfect amp!

Sorry for my terribly late response. I won't bore you with all of the reasons why.
So, first of all thank you for your very helpful response.
If it's better that I send you a private message or start a new topic, just let me know. Hopefully you can help me understand this topic.

Do I understand you correctly that quite possibly (not guaranteed) the reason I could hear a difference between a Naim NAC 202/NAP 200 two-box set and an Arcam SR250 and a Nord Purifi integrated amp was because the frequency response differed?
And the cause of this was perhaps, or maybe even likely, because of the load that my speakers (GoldenEar Triton 1) put on them in combination with the impedance of the amps?
From what I could gather from the other comments in this thread, Naim's impedance is high compared to other amplifiers, although the variation in frequency response that was mentioned was -1 dB at 20 khz, which is most likely inaudible and certainly not the cause of the "Naim sound".

When I compared those three amps I spent a lot of time adjusting the volume, and I was under the subjective impression that the Nord was the most neutral one, where the two others added a bit of (pleasant) colorization. The Arcam seemed like it had a slight boost in the midrange (so frequency response), where the Nord had that "cold" or "steely" sound that some people have said about Purifi and similar amps.

My attempt at explaining why it's called a "cold" sound is that most people don't like that more lifted (and accurate) lower treble, and we're used to listening to a slightly subdued lower treble, so that's how we both believe it "should" sound, and it might also be more pleasant to our ears, since 2-7 kHz is the most offensive region. I usually also lower that region when I EQ (remaster) music.
If less accurate amplifiers and speakers have been used in studios to create the music, they would have boosted the offensive lower treble, and then when we listen on accurate equipment, like the Nord, the treble sounds too harsh ("cold").

 

[totti1965]

At least the Arcam SR 250 and the Nord Purify should not have any problems with load dependency.
Did you read the measurements comment of the Arcam by John Atkinson from stereophile:

„In its Stereo Direct mode, the Arcam FMJ SR250 is a powerful integrated amplifier with low distortion. But while its S/PDIF input performs reasonably well, the sample-rate conversion applied to its USB port renders it inadequate for serious listening, in my opinion.—John Atkinson“




And also no load dependency concerns for the Naim:

Naim Classic 200 Series NAP 250 power amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 4: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

The stereophile measurements put the Naim in the kind of „very good“ league if @amirm would have measured it in deep.

But I can agree that I think, also 1/2 of a decibel in frequency correction is easy to detect, as I do sometimes some minor corrections for my WaveMon 182/22 Monitor speakers with just 1 dB in the high frequency’s and the differences seem subjectively huge in my ears. So I doubt, that I would not detect 1/2 of a decibel or even 1/4 of a decibel.

Here is my roon correction (sometimes I switch it of, sometimes I hear with equalization, depends on the music I listen to and on my mood of course!)

Well, I don’t believe in harshness with purify amps. Every Bruno Putzeys Amp of the last 15 years should be simply not acoustical detectable, wich means transparent. Many many tube Amp lovers switched to Hypex /Purify/Eigentakt.
Perhaps because subjectively they think „This amp sounds great“. But there is really no sound, but you are able to hear the devices before the power amp. And in todays time DACs or preamps are amazing in 98 of 100 cases.

But if you think, the differences between purify and Naim do speak for the Naim: it is also very good, but expensive stuff….

And one thing I would consider in your place:
Are the changings in sound with your equalization not 10 times as high as the originally differences between these three amps which are all of pretty high quality???

Ah, one last thing: look (at my equalization) - my ears seems also often a little bit stressed in the region of 2 to 7 kHz. Depends on the music I listen to. Perhaps it is also the fault of loudness war. With lack or realistcly dynamic, there is more fatigue.
To lower the fatigue, we tilt the high frequency’s a bit. Or we just have to buy the amp, with which most of our music sounds subjectively the best. If 95 % of the music you listen to is affected to loudness war. And amp a sounds better with such music, but amp b sounds better if you are listen to „Jazz at the pawnshop“ in non-remastered version….
Then of course simply buy amp a - even if it measures worse!
It gives you more benefit!

Just a theory.

 

[NTK]

At least the Arcam SR 250 and the Nord Purify should not have any problems with load dependency.
Did you read the measurements comment of the Arcam by John Atkinson from stereophile:
...

Dang! The DAC in this Arcam was broken. See the distortions in the waveform.

 

[stefanovesa]

Not sure if it was already discussed. The official specs listed 12.5 VRMS and 3.9 VRMS to push the amp to full power, but Amir measured 6.6 and 2.1, very similar to those of LA 90 discrete. Very different values

 

[board]

At least the Arcam SR 250 and the Nord Purify should not have any problems with load dependency.
Did you read the measurements comment of the Arcam by John Atkinson from stereophile:

View attachment 451503


„In its Stereo Direct mode, the Arcam FMJ SR250 is a powerful integrated amplifier with low distortion. But while its S/PDIF input performs reasonably well, the sample-rate conversion applied to its USB port renders it inadequate for serious listening, in my opinion.—John Atkinson“




And also no load dependency concerns for the Naim:

Naim Classic 200 Series NAP 250 power amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 4: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

The stereophile measurements put the Naim in the kind of „very good“ league if @amirm would have measured it in deep.

But I can agree that I think, also 1/2 of a decibel in frequency correction is easy to detect, as I do sometimes some minor corrections for my WaveMon 182/22 Monitor speakers with just 1 dB in the high frequency’s and the differences seem subjectively huge in my ears. So I doubt, that I would not detect 1/2 of a decibel or even 1/4 of a decibel.

Here is my roon correction (sometimes I switch it of, sometimes I hear with equalization, depends on the music I listen to and on my mood of course!)

Well, I don’t believe in harshness with purify amps. Every Bruno Putzeys Amp of the last 15 years should be simply not acoustical detectable, wich means transparent. Many many tube Amp lovers switched to Hypex /Purify/Eigentakt.
Perhaps because subjectively they think „This amp sounds great“. But there is really no sound, but you are able to hear the devices before the power amp. And in todays time DACs or preamps are amazing in 98 of 100 cases.

But if you think, the differences between purify and Naim do speak for the Naim: it is also very good, but expensive stuff….

And one thing I would consider in your place:
Are the changings in sound with your equalization not 10 times as high as the originally differences between these three amps which are all of pretty high quality???

Ah, one last thing: look (at my equalization) - my ears seems also often a little bit stressed in the region of 2 to 7 kHz. Depends on the music I listen to. Perhaps it is also the fault of loudness war. With lack or realistcly dynamic, there is more fatigue.
To lower the fatigue, we tilt the high frequency’s a bit. Or we just have to buy the amp, with which most of our music sounds subjectively the best. If 95 % of the music you listen to is affected to loudness war. And amp a sounds better with such music, but amp b sounds better if you are listen to „Jazz at the pawnshop“ in non-remastered version….
Then of course simply buy amp a - even if it measures worse!
It gives you more benefit!

Just a theory.

Thanks for your reply.
And yes, I did read the measurements of the Arcam SR250 before buying it.
Unless I misunderstood it, it was only the USB input that was out of phase, as your picture shows. I've never used that input and only ever use the analogue inputs. Although I'm not completely sure about this, I seem to remember that the USB input was fixed by Arcam after this review. But I have a stand-alone DAC anyway, so I just plug that into an analogue input.

And yes, the differences between the three amps were much, much smaller than the difference between room correction switched on and off.
As for harshness in the Purifi/Hypex amps, you might be completely right that they're not harsh at all, just neutral, and that was actually also the point I was trying to make - that they're not harsh, but other amps have an attenuation of the lower treble so that makes them seem less harsh than a Purifi/Hypex.

In the link to the Naim amp that you included (which is actually not the model I used to have - the model names are just a bit confusing) the frequency response seems to be altered a bit by speaker load (the black line). The same was the case with the Arcam measurements.
As far as I understand, several people have said that the speaker dummy load that Stereophile uses is too light, and real-world speakers put greater strain on amps, so the frequency response would change more, which would support my hypothesis. But I'm not here to try to prove my hypothesis, but rather try to find out if my hypothesis is actually correct .
I'm not sure that I understood your post correctly. I understood it as if you now say the opposite of what you previously said - that now you're saying that a (reasonable) speaker load wouldn't change the frequency response of an amp, or at least not for the three amps I mentioned. Do I understand this correctly?

Whether 1/2 a dB of change in frequency response is audible is debatable I would say, especially since in my experience it depends a lot on the exact frequency where the change is and of course also the Q value (how broad the peak or dip is). But yes, making a 1 dB change in the room correction EQ curve, or a 1 dB change when I EQ (remaster) specific songs, has also made an audible change at least between 50 and 15.000 Hz.

The loudness war might have something to do with the harshness of modern music, but in the experiments that I have done dynamic range compression seems much less audible than most people believe.
It seems to me that the main reason why a lot of music sounds "harsh" nowadays is rather due to an excess amount of lower treble. Here's an egregious example, which, unfortunately, is not all that uncommon:

 

[totti1965]

And yes, the differences between the three amps were much, much smaller than the difference between room correction switched
I'm not sure that I understood your post correctly. I understood it as if you now say the opposite of what you previously said - that now you're saying that a (reasonable) speaker load wouldn't change the frequency response of an amp, or at least not for the three amps I mentioned. Do I understand this correctly?



View attachment 451553

Yes, I think all three amps don’t suffer from severe problems with load dependency. At least they are by far not in the ballpark as cheap Chinese amps without pfft like the Fosi V3 (Stereo).
Maybe the Naim has a lack of highest frequency’s due to the lower damping factor / higher output resistance than the other two.

Your frequency analyses graph can scare you a bit. Seems obviously not quite natural in the 2 to 7 kHz range!
But if you want to compensate that plot, some severe 6 dB equalization is necessary and the choice of which amp is for your liking, simply is 100 times less important!

 

[board]

Yes, I think all three amps don’t suffer from severe problems with load dependency. At least they are by far not in the ballpark as cheap Chinese amps without pfft like the Fosi V3 (Stereo).
Maybe the Naim has a lack of highest frequency’s due to the lower damping factor / higher output resistance than the other two.

Your frequency analyses graph can scare you a bit. Seems obviously not quite natural in the 2 to 7 kHz range!
But if you want to compensate that plot, some severe 6 dB equalization is necessary and the choice of which amp is for your liking, simply is 100 times less important!

Okay.
So, just to make sure that I understand you correctly:
Although all three amps don't suffer "severely" from load dependency they might still be slightly affected by the loudspeaker load and produce a slightly different frequency response, which would be audible?
It could just be +1 dB around 80 Hz for one, -0.5 dB at 700 Hz for another, -0.8 dB at 2 kHz for another, and so on.

As for the diagram I showed, I didn't write that verbatim, but it's a frequency analysis of a song (not a room) done in Audacity.
My point was that a lot of music sounds harsh, because it's produced with an excess amount of lower treble, as the plot shows.

 

[Impossible]

Just a quick question.
Why do you need balanced inputs? What's it for.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Just a quick question.
Why do you need balanced inputs? What's it for.

It's for DACs and preamps that have balanced outputs.

 

[totti1965]

Okay.
So, just to make sure that I understand you correctly:
Although all three amps don't suffer "severely" from load dependency they might still be slightly affected by the loudspeaker load and produce a slightly different frequency response, which would be audible?
It could just be +1 dB around 80 Hz for one, -0.5 dB at 700 Hz for another, -0.8 dB at 2 kHz for another, and so on.

As for the diagram I showed, I didn't write that verbatim, but it's a frequency analysis of a song (not a room) done in Audacity.
My point was that a lot of music sounds harsh, because it's produced with an excess amount of lower treble, as the plot shows.

I think for transistor amps normally not more than +/- 0.25 dB from 20 Hz to 20 kHz.
Perhaps there are some exceptions out there. Extreme speakers, Low damping factor (usually in the heights!) transistor amps. So some transistors my sound a bit to relaxed in the high frequency’s. Perhaps 1 dB at 20 kHz…..

For tube amps: Other story because often the output impedance is higher than 0.4 Ohms (Damping factor less than 20!) and they don’t control the speaker as perfect as a purify amp. Then the result may be in the range of your guesses!

For tube Amps it is necessary to put 3 parts more in the crossover for flatten the impedance of the speaker.

 

[Impossible]

It's for DACs and preamps that have balanced outputs.

Apologies, I meant why do you need 3 balanced inputs?