Topping B100 Amplifier Review

[Roland68]

Hypex and purifi based amp?

Didn't you say you knew of an alternative?

First of all, neither Hypex nor Purifi offer amplifiers, only modules for DIY projects through their respective retailers.
Complete amplifiers (integrated amplifiers/power amplifiers) are only available from other companies/manufacturers, using the corresponding modules or technology.
The same applies to IcePower modules, by the way.

Official repair options (and by that I don't mean module replacement) after the warranty period are unclear, if not nonexistent. Schematics and service manuals are unavailable.
Most manufacturers don't even have the word "repair" on their websites.
Hypex themselves clearly state that repairs can only be requested for products that are less than five years old and still in their product line.
If you do some thorough research, you'll notice that this very topic is being swept under the rug. Why do you think that is?

Of ten defective modules outside the warranty period among my friends and acquaintances in the last ten years, not a single one was repaired. The device manufacturers, at best, offered a replacement module, and the module manufacturers referred us back to the device manufacturers. All the devices could be repaired somehow using modules from retailers, eBay, etc., but that has absolutely nothing to do with actual repair options.
I would be very pleased to read that the situation is different from what we experienced.

The reason for this should be clear. The manufacturing costs for the modules are often lower than the repair costs.
Every module/device repaired outside of the warranty period is one less that can be sold new.
This makes repairs uneconomical in the first place.

However, it must also be said that in the last year or two, there have been fewer reports of amplifiers with these modules failing. Presumably, the initial problems have been ironed out. But any of the components can break down and cause a malfunction; that's simply unavoidable.

Finally, it should be noted that the modules/amplifiers from these manufacturers that measure well are usually significantly more expensive than Topping's B100, PA5 II, Mini 300, etc. However, they also offer considerably higher performance.

 

[Roland68]

Thanks. One more thing. What's the catch how topping manage to beat totl class d modules and likes of benchmark ahb2 at such low cost?

It's quite simple.

- Especially in the amplifier area (small-signal and power), Topping's engineers have specialized in developing extremely low-noise and highly accurate circuits.

- The same applies to the internal power supplies.

- This results in a relatively small number of components.

- Components are chosen to be as inexpensive as possible, but as good as necessary (the latter isn't always achieved, unfortunately).

- A large proportion of space-saving and cost-effective SMD circuits are used.

- Small and inexpensive extruded housings reduce both material and handling costs (packaging/size and transport).

- Large production runs, ideally automated assembly, and inexpensive circuit boards significantly reduce costs.

- Elimination of costly stress, aging, and long-term testing.

- Elimination of lengthy and expensive functional testing and development (the DX5 II being a recent example).

Unfortunately, very cheap and small SMD components, such as SMD resistors and capacitors (non-electrolyte), can lead to premature failure.

 

[delta76]

Well you seem to have set on the path of "everything is shit so I will go with cheap shit". Your money your choice then

 

[Jazigo]

What exactly are the alternatives that offer good performance, a reasonable price, and easy repairability?
Can you list a few?

I don't know about repairability, but I have two B200s now after one B100 shut down for good. I am very happy with the B200s and they pass every test, where the B100s would go into protection mode.

 

[Panelhead]

Topping would not want to hear this, but B100 is perfect for horns. Maybe not normal speakers. Whether issue is heat, back EMF, or clipping all are reduced when load is high efficiency speakers.
I played music all afternoon. Attenuation level on dac was -20dB. The E70 can output 5 volts @0dB input level. The B100 are in low gain, unity voltage gain. So 5x5/8 is 3 watts. With -20dB attenuation this is 300 mW max. The amps do not get warm, back EMF is a function of applied voltage, and clipping is nonexistent at sub watt level output.
Best amplifier ever for horn loaded speakers. For other speakers get the LA90 Discrete or B200’s.
B100 is not a failed design. Should have targeted the high efficiency market. Only horn users care about THD+N below 20mW.
Marketing failure. Design is SOTA for a niche market.
Suspect mine will outlast me.

 

[Skj]

B100 has unity gain option which b200 doesn't have. For dacs like benchmark and chord tt2 which have very high output ( 17.8v in high gan xlr out) the unity gain option of b100 delivers almost 40w in 8ohms.

 

[DavidMcRoy]

Topping would not want to hear this, but B100 is perfect for horns. Maybe not normal speakers. Whether issue is heat, back EMF, or clipping all are reduced when load is high efficiency speakers.
I played music all afternoon. Attenuation level on dac was -20dB. The E70 can output 5 volts @0dB input level. The B100 are in low gain, unity voltage gain. So 5x5/8 is 3 watts. With -20dB attenuation this is 300 mW max. The amps do not get warm, back EMF is a function of applied voltage, and clipping is nonexistent at sub watt level output.
Best amplifier ever for horn loaded speakers. For other speakers get the LA90 Discrete or B200’s.
B100 is not a failed design. Should have targeted the high efficiency market. Only horn users care about THD+N below 20mW.
Marketing failure. Design is SOTA for a niche market.
Suspect mine will outlast me.

I have only used my B100s to drive the new ESS HEIL AMT (Large) Tweeters, with an audio signal from a DSP with crossovers over 1000Hz at moderate volume. The tweeters are rated at 95dB efficiency and present a resistive load at 4 Ohms, so nothing at all challenging. Two out of three amps are out of service with no response from inquiries to Topping. So, besides sketchy reliability, we have a manufacturer with zero customer service.

 

[Panelhead]

I have thought about your issues with them. Made no sense.
Tweeters are low power. The AMT are a planar speaker. Like my old Apogee Stages, only smaller, more efficient.
But when someone mentioned the voltage generated by the speaker drivers this made sense. This back EMF is usually padded by the passive components in the crossover. But in your application the amplifier is connected directly to the driver. The filter is in front of the amplifier.
There are microphones and headphones that are similar in design to the AMT tweeters. Electrical dampening the diaphragm should generate a small voltage seen by the amplifier. With both local and loop degeneration this gets more complex. It is possible the phase of the feedback signal can be shifted from the desired 180 degree to closer to 0 degree phase. The back EMF signal is already phase shifted.
A short lived oscillator.
I always considered planar drivers as an inductive load. Electrostatics as a capacitive load. Especially at high frequency.
There may be multiple reasons these excellent amplifiers are failing. I think use in active speakers with no crossover between amp output and driver may be an issue. MAY BE.
Brief clipping could be another. Digital signal has ended the needle pop issues. But I had a 90’s CD that killed two amplifiers. Think it was mastered in the red. Never heard it. But two amps died while playing that particular CD. Threw away.
The crunch from 0dB+ signal level should not released in commercial music. But it does. Maybe 30 years later people catch this before release.
Hearing that the B200 has not had failures I looked again at the specs. Especially at very low power levels. As long as they last I will stick the B100’s. At 1mW the THD+N is lower and this is where B200 plot stops. The B100 is plotted down to 100uW.
Also, saw the above mention of higher voltage output dacs getting more power from the B100’s. That was why I looked hard at E50 II. The measurements almost as good as the E70 Velvet and more than double the output voltage. Maybe five times higher output from the amplifier in low gain. But yet to attenuate the E70 less than -10dB. If end up needing more with consider a different dac or flip gain switch to mid gain.
If the E50 II had trigger, I would be tweaking the PEM instead of listening now.

 

[DavidMcRoy]

I have thought about your issues with them. Made no sense.
Tweeters are low power. The AMT are a planar speaker. Like my old Apogee Stages, only smaller, more efficient.
But when someone mentioned the voltage generated by the speaker drivers this made sense. This back EMF is usually padded by the passive components in the crossover. But in your application the amplifier is connected directly to the driver. The filter is in front of the amplifier.
There are microphones and headphones that are similar in design to the AMT tweeters. Electrical dampening the diaphragm should generate a small voltage seen by the amplifier. With both local and loop degeneration this gets more complex. It is possible the phase of the feedback signal can be shifted from the desired 180 degree to closer to 0 degree phase. The back EMF signal is already phase shifted.
A short lived oscillator.
I always considered planar drivers as an inductive load. Electrostatics as a capacitive load. Especially at high frequency.
There may be multiple reasons these excellent amplifiers are failing. I think use in active speakers with no crossover between amp output and driver may be an issue. MAY BE.
Brief clipping could be another. Digital signal has ended the needle pop issues. But I had a 90’s CD that killed two amplifiers. Think it was mastered in the red. Never heard it. But two amps died while playing that particular CD. Threw away.
The crunch from 0dB+ signal level should not released in commercial music. But it does. Maybe 30 years later people catch this before release.
Hearing that the B200 has not had failures I looked again at the specs. Especially at very low power levels. As long as they last I will stick the B100’s. At 1mW the THD+N is lower and this is where B200 plot stops. The B100 is plotted down to 100uW.
Also, saw the above mention of higher voltage output dacs getting more power from the B100’s. That was why I looked hard at E50 II. The measurements almost as good as the E70 Velvet and more than double the output voltage. Maybe five times higher output from the amplifier in low gain. But yet to attenuate the E70 less than -10dB. If end up needing more with consider a different dac or flip gain switch to mid gain.
If the E50 II had trigger, I would be tweaking the PEM instead of listening now.

There is a 100uf Mylar cap between the amplifiers and the AMTs to prevent accidental exposure to DC.

The B100s are being run in unity gain mode because the AMTs are significantly more efficient than the other drivers in the system. My listening levels are always very moderate.

While an AMT is indeed an inductive load, it is relatively non-reactive as seen by the output of an amplifier. An AMT with a ruler-flat 4 Ohm impedance is a really benign load.

Besides these circumstances, I don't think everyone with dying B100s is running them the way I am. There is something wrong with at least some B100s that's causing them to drop dead after a few months' light use. And I wouldn't feel half as bad if Topping would at least acknowledge my emails. Shit happens, you now, so just put things right.

 

[Panelhead]

Yes, your case made me concerned. And you shot down my hope that having capacitors or inductors between the drivers and B100 will allow them to last forever.
But knowing people who disassembled them have said there are internal differences between B100’s gives me hope. Maybe my pair are solid. I need to see when I purchased them. Been a while and they get regular use.

 

[olds1959special]

I thought of using these amps for bi-amping my speakers but I prefer my Aiyima A70 mono's because they have volume controls allowing me to optimize the balance between the woofers and midrange/tweeters.

Also volume controls prevent accidents.

 

[Nzama]

Have mine from a couple of months and no issues so far.

But clearly we see a pattern here. I remember the times of the pa5. Same story here.

Nothing we can really do, if not enjoy and plann a b plan if needed

 

[C0mbat]

Amir says in the original post:

"I hope you are using this amplifier with balanced connection but in case you are not, here are the measurements using RCA"

Why should I be using it with a balanced connection? I thought the consensus on this site is that it provides no benefit.

The reason I ask is that I've just purchased a Bluesound Node Icon off ebay to pair with my two B100s and I'm wondering if I should be buying a pair of XLR cables from Aliexpress?

 

[testp]

Amir says in the original post:

"I hope you are using this amplifier with balanced connection but in case you are not, here are the measurements using RCA"

Why should I be using it with a balanced connection? I thought the consensus on this site is that it provides no benefit.

The reason I ask is that I've just purchased a Bluesound Node Icon off ebay to pair with my two B100s and I'm wondering if I should be buying a pair of XLR cables from Aliexpress?

i think that was just that, with xlr you get better sinad and noise rejection guaranteed. but rca is fine, high gain is somewhat lower performance.

if Node have balanced out, i would use that, if not i would just use rca or use the fake xlr config: xlr to rca, that's proven to have lower noise i think

 

[Mort]

I thought the consensus on this site is that it provides no benefit.

It's often louder. Higher input voltage.

Plus ground loops of course.

 

[C0mbat]

i think that was just that, with xlr you get better sinad and noise rejection guaranteed. but rca is fine, high gain is somewhat lower performance.

if Node have balanced out, i would use that, if not i would just use rca or use the fake xlr config: xlr to rca, that's proven to have lower noise i think

Thanks. I've been using my B100s in high gain mode for about 12 months with RCA cables. Are you saying that XLR cables will produce better sound quality in high gain? And why? And does that mean I should be using my B100s in medium gain mode until I get the Node Icon and the XLR cables?

 

[Skj]

Amir says in the original post:

"I hope you are using this amplifier with balanced connection but in case you are not, here are the measurements using RCA"

Why should I be using it with a balanced connection? I thought the consensus on this site is that it provides no benefit.

The reason I ask is that I've just purchased a Bluesound Node Icon off ebay to pair with my two B100s and I'm wondering if I should be buying a pair of XLR cables from Aliexpress?

This amp uses two amps one each for positive and negative. So using rca employs only one part for positive signal. So xlr is the best bet as it allows the amp to be used in medium gain or even low gain

 

[C0mbat]

This amp uses two amps one each for positive and negative. So using rca employs only one part for positive signal. So xlr is the best bet as it allows the amp to be used in medium gain or even low gain

Thanks for the explanation of the "what". But "why" does that matter? How does that affect the quality of the sound coming out of my speakers?

Also, @testp said that high gain is lower performance but you've said that it would allow for the use of the amp in medium or low gain. So it sounds like you're saying something different?

 

[testp]

why: it's in the numbers, look at the results carefully or let LLM interpret the why part

 

[C0mbat]

why: it's in the numbers, look at the results carefully or let LLM interpret the why part

I don't know how to interpret the numbers. I understand the why from Gemini but none of the responses talk about gain settings. On the whole Gemini says that XLR cables provide no benefit over RCA in terms of audio quality (that's very broad-brush but I'm summarising) but that contradicts the statement by Amir in the original post plus posts above. So an LLM isn't going to help me. I was hoping that someone in this forum would be able to provide an answer but it's possible that people don't want to stick their neck out and say something that other people will shoot down as completely wrong?