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Topping B100 Amplifier Review

Rate this amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 30 6.3%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 27 5.7%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 82 17.3%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 334 70.6%

  • Total voters
    473
Why are people still buying this shit from companies that flood the market at every opportunity with landfill stuff and do their Quality control and testing in the field ie. by paying customers ... ?

You know what you let yourselves in for and still do it :facepalm:

I guess all it takes is one of Amir's golfing panthers and the rose tinted spectacles are on.
 
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Why are people still buying this shit from companies that flood the market at every opportunity with landfill stuff and do their Quality control and testing in the field ie. by paying customers ... ?

You know what you let yourselves in for and still do it :facepalm:

I guess all it takes is one of Amir's golfing panthers and the rose tinted spectacles are on.
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but there are fewer and fewer quality products, even from well-known companies. Repair options are also dwindling, with only a few exceptions.
Manufacturers who guarantee repairs even after 5 or 10 years can be counted on one hand.

The fact is that most large and/or well-known manufacturers have missed the boat because they relied on outdated designs with sometimes poor performance figures. And the prices charged by many of these manufacturers were exorbitant.
Instead of reinvesting profits in development, they continued to rest on their laurels.

Most of these devices don't have better performance figures or features than they did 30-40 years ago, and they certainly don't have the same quality as those older devices.
I can say this with certainty because I use several of these older devices and have compared them to current models that cost many times more. It's simply ridiculous what large and so-called high-end manufacturers are offering.

My last experience with expensive equipment in the four-figure and even higher four-figure price range from a German high-end manufacturer was simply awful.
Three of these amplifiers broke down within five to six years. My speakers were damaged twice. Although the fault lay in the amplifiers' defective protection circuitry, they refused to take responsibility. I had two amplifiers repaired at the time, but both failed again in less than two years. Luckily, this time I had additional protection circuits for the speakers.
Similar experiences exist among my acquaintances and friends with various reputable and high-end manufacturers.

What these three high-end manufacturers cost me back then, I could easily have bought 50 Topping B100 amplifiers. Even with a lifespan of only two years (i.e., the warranty period if purchased in Germany), they would last 50 years, three times longer than the other three amplifiers. And with significantly better performance.

The now widely used TPA3251/55-based amplifiers, such as the Topping PA5 II, Mini 300, 3E Audio A5/A7, Fosi, Aiyima, etc., not only sound better than most amplifiers costing 10, 20, or even 30 times as much, but they also boast good durability and reliability.

The large, well-known manufacturers have simply messed up. Poor test results, definitely no better sound, increasingly worse service and warranty coverage, more and more defects in the devices, increasingly poor development, etc.—I'm not spending my money on that anymore.
I'll still buy the few exceptions that remain, but I'll weigh the price-performance ratio much more critically.

So, if I have to choose between two evils, I'll choose the one that ultimately costs me less but also delivers more.
 
I asked Topping before buying. Told them my speakers are very high efficiency and draw was little power.
Then they said B100’s. But followed that if driving less efficient speakers get the LA90 Discrete.
When I was handling the E70 dac this week, the size is shocking. The B100 are same size. Very small. I wonder if thermal management is what is killing some of the amplifiers.
 
I asked Topping before buying. Told them my speakers are very high efficiency and draw was little power.
Then they said B100’s. But followed that if driving less efficient speakers get the LA90 Discrete.
When I was handling the E70 dac this week, the size is shocking. The B100 are same size. Very small. I wonder if thermal management is what is killing some of the amplifiers.
I am not sure, but my theory is that it is related to the crossover error handling for the this class B setup.

Theory: They have optimized hard for the zero-voltage crossing issue in class B amps. However, with speakers, which have inductive- and capacitance load as well, the original crossing issue at 0V, moves to a relative offset voltage from 0V. Most amplifiers are not happy getting this reactive current pushed back, since that can make them unstable and go into oscillation.

Just a theory for now.
 
Makes sense. I have used Class B amplifiers before. But not as sophisticated feedback nets.
Worked well with horns too. Required deep error correction to minimize crossover distortion. Topping designed these to have zero crossover distortion.
One of the Topping headphone amps uses these same modules. Wonder if those have reliability issues.
 
Is it true that this amp simply a high amount of negative feedback amp in the garb of "tang ku la" module or is this a different tech? Does excessive feedback affects low level details?
 
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but there are fewer and fewer quality products, even from well-known companies. Repair options are also dwindling, with only a few exceptions.
Manufacturers who guarantee repairs even after 5 or 10 years can be counted on one hand.

The fact is that most large and/or well-known manufacturers have missed the boat because they relied on outdated designs with sometimes poor performance figures. And the prices charged by many of these manufacturers were exorbitant.
Instead of reinvesting profits in development, they continued to rest on their laurels.

Most of these devices don't have better performance figures or features than they did 30-40 years ago, and they certainly don't have the same quality as those older devices.
I can say this with certainty because I use several of these older devices and have compared them to current models that cost many times more. It's simply ridiculous what large and so-called high-end manufacturers are offering.

My last experience with expensive equipment in the four-figure and even higher four-figure price range from a German high-end manufacturer was simply awful.
Three of these amplifiers broke down within five to six years. My speakers were damaged twice. Although the fault lay in the amplifiers' defective protection circuitry, they refused to take responsibility. I had two amplifiers repaired at the time, but both failed again in less than two years. Luckily, this time I had additional protection circuits for the speakers.
Similar experiences exist among my acquaintances and friends with various reputable and high-end manufacturers.

What these three high-end manufacturers cost me back then, I could easily have bought 50 Topping B100 amplifiers. Even with a lifespan of only two years (i.e., the warranty period if purchased in Germany), they would last 50 years, three times longer than the other three amplifiers. And with significantly better performance.

The now widely used TPA3251/55-based amplifiers, such as the Topping PA5 II, Mini 300, 3E Audio A5/A7, Fosi, Aiyima, etc., not only sound better than most amplifiers costing 10, 20, or even 30 times as much, but they also boast good durability and reliability.

The large, well-known manufacturers have simply messed up. Poor test results, definitely no better sound, increasingly worse service and warranty coverage, more and more defects in the devices, increasingly poor development, etc.—I'm not spending my money on that anymore.
I'll still buy the few exceptions that remain, but I'll weigh the price-performance ratio much more critically.

So, if I have to choose between two evils, I'll choose the one that ultimately costs me less but also delivers more.
That is a lot of amps end up in landfill because they are usually not repairable. Even more, if their average lifetime is less than 2 years.
I get your points but keep buying then throwing away is exactly what is wrong with these products.
we don't need to be on either far side of spectrum. There are things in the middle with great performance, reasonable price and easily repairable
 
Apologies if this has been covered already, but what is it that fails in these amps, and is it due to excessive heat or something else?

Also, is this directly related to it's Class B design?

Thanks.
 
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Is it true that this amp simply a high amount of negative feedback amp in the garb of "tang ku la"
No idea what a tang ku la is - but yes the B100 has high negative feedback.


Does excessive feedback affects low level details?
No - this is an audiophile myth.



or if you prefer to download a PDF
 
That is a lot of amps end up in landfill because they are usually not repairable. Even more, if their average lifetime is less than 2 years.
I get your points but keep buying then throwing away is exactly what is wrong with these products.
we don't need to be on either far side of spectrum. There are things in the middle with great performance, reasonable price and easily repairable
What exactly are the alternatives that offer good performance, a reasonable price, and easy repairability?
Can you list a few?
 
What exactly are the alternatives that offer good performance, a reasonable price, and easy repairability?
Can you list a few?
Many seem to like some Yamaha amps that have been tested here on ASR
 
As far as repair ability, not sure. These are small, lightweight, low cost products. My analogy is consumer printers. Remember paying 300.00 USD for a printer that was a printer.
We have had an all in one for maybe 10 years. It is a printer, flatbed copier and scanner. Control from our phones via an app. Wireless network connectivity. Requires a reboot every few months.
Every time it is offline, cycle the power expecting it to come back alive. But one day it will not reboot. And I will order a 100.00 replacement that most likely is better. Think this one was 149.00.
If leaving out repairabilty would most likely replace my B100’s with a Topping PA5 II. The E3 products look comparable. It would stay away from the 80 - 100 dollar amplifiers. Elitist like me will waste our money on a 155.00 amplifier that double blind and deaf tests show sounds identical to the 80.00 USD competition. That would be my choice.
 
Is it true that this amp simply a high amount of negative feedback amp in the garb of "tang ku la" module or is this a different tech? Does excessive feedback affects low level details?
This is analog amplifier that has “three levels of feedback” assume that is in the modules. Very high levels of feedback have been very common almost since the 50’s, more so with solid state electronics. Nothing to do with Class B, Class A or other amplifier classes.
In my opinion Topping advanced feedback implementation. Getting excellent results from the cheap TI switching amplifier modules. Raising SINAD From 80 - 85 to 105.
The technique is deep null correction. This was always available, at the expense of TIM and other artifacts. But driven low enough, these distortions disappear. The combination of global and local feedback has been optimized.
One of my teachers of audio amplifier design had a different focus than lowest possible distortion and noise. He was driven to speed up overload recovery. Time constants of decoupling, feedback levels, amplifiers that could clip and settle back stable very fast.
He felt and measured that clipping occurs much more frequently than we assume. He designed and manufactured advanced medical equipment. Audio was just hobby.
Using the advanced testing equipment required to build and troubleshoot the state of the art medical equipment he found settling time should be top priority of an audio amplifier. This was why amplifiers “sound” different.
It may be overload recovery is what is taking out the B100’s. I wondered about heat, another mentioned back EMF.
We do not measure settling time. May be much more important than SINAD.
 
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This is analog amplifier that has “three levels of feedback” assume that is in the modules. Very high levels of feedback have been very common almost since the 50’s, more so with solid state electronics. Nothing to do with Class B, Class A or other amplifier classes.
In my opinion Topping advanced feedback implementation. Getting excellent results from the cheap TI switching amplifier modules. Raising SINAD From 80 - 85 to 105.
The technique is deep null correction. This was always available, at the expense of TIM and other artifacts. But driven low enough, these distortions disappear. The combination of global and local feedback has been optimized.
One of my teachers of audio amplifier design had a different focus than lowest possible distortion and noise. He was driven to speed up overload recovery. Time constants of decoupling, feedback levels, amplifiers that could clip and settle back stable very fast.
He felt and measured that clipping occurs much more frequently than we assume. He designed and manufactured advanced medical equipment. Audio was just hobby.
Using the advanced testing equipment required to build and troubleshoot the state of the art medical equipment he found settling time should be top priority of an audio amplifier. This was why amplifiers “sound” different.
It may be overload recovery is what is taking out the B100’s. I wondered about heat, another mentioned back EMF.
We do not measure settling time. May be much more important than SINAD.
Thanks. Please could you briefly explain "overload recovery" and "back EMF"?
And how they lead to failure in amplifiers.

Many thanks!
 
Apologies if this has been covered already, but what is it that fails in these amps, and is it due to excessive heat or something else?


It may be overload recovery is what is taking out the B100’s

We currently have zero evidence that B100's are being taken out any more frequently than other amps in a similar market position.
 
The screen failed on one of my B100s. Thankfully it still works with the 12v input. The touch interface on the front panel isn’t the most reliable.

Great sounding amp, but the will be the last Topping product I buy without a physical switch.





We currently have zero evidence that B100's are being taken out any more frequently than other amps in a similar market position.
 
This is analog amplifier that has “three levels of feedback” assume that is in the modules. Very high levels of feedback have been very common almost since the 50’s, more so with solid state electronics. Nothing to do with Class B, Class A or other amplifier classes.
In my opinion Topping advanced feedback implementation. Getting excellent results from the cheap TI switching amplifier modules. Raising SINAD From 80 - 85 to 105.
The technique is deep null correction. This was always available, at the expense of TIM and other artifacts. But driven low enough, these distortions disappear. The combination of global and local feedback has been optimized.
One of my teachers of audio amplifier design had a different focus than lowest possible distortion and noise. He was driven to speed up overload recovery. Time constants of decoupling, feedback levels, amplifiers that could clip and settle back stable very fast.
He felt and measured that clipping occurs much more frequently than we assume. He designed and manufactured advanced medical equipment. Audio was just hobby.
Using the advanced testing equipment required to build and troubleshoot the state of the art medical equipment he found settling time should be top priority of an audio amplifier. This was why amplifiers “sound” different.
It may be overload recovery is what is taking out the B100’s. I wondered about heat, another mentioned back EMF.
We do not measure settling time. May be much more important than SINAD.
Thanks. One more thing. What's the catch how topping manage to beat totl class d modules and likes of benchmark ahb2 at such low cost?
 
I've read zero reports of AHB2s failing here, so they probably haven't spent as much on long term testing as Benchmark.
Everything costs.

Seems to me you get cheap performance, high SINAD. At the cost of potential reliability.
 
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Before getting to my Saturday, Benchmark was a Pro audio only company. Reliability is a requirement for studio use.
If only a few units fail, words gets out and business suffers. They are much less focused on SOTA performance, much more on SOTA reliability and features. Many of the competitors offered good enough performance. Benchmark offered stellar reliability and performance.
Today I suspect Benchmark is closer to being an audiophile company and less a professional audio company. The home studio market may keep them busy, most commercial studios have gear.
But this reliability first mentality has stayed. On release an AHB2 was 2300.00. Four times the cost of a pair of B100 today. And the price of AHB2 has doubled. Will buy 7 or 8 pairs of B100.
I am sure if Topping was convinced the market was receptive to B100 priced at 3,000.00 and with improved reliability and the same performance a B100 II would already be here. But we are SINAD chasers. Move from one to another relatively quickly.
I am one of the worst, purchased a RAW-MDA1, loved it, then the E70 Velvet because of the soft spot in my head for AKM dac chips. Lusted for a B200 to “hear” the ROHM dac chip. Then the E50 II for the higher voltage output and PEM filters.
The prime target for Topping and SMSL. Never satisfied with what I got.
 
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