Topping B100 Amplifier Review

[Julf]

So: if I want to hear hires files, I need a capable amp.

Most amps on the market these days are capable enough. By the way, how do you define "hires"?

Maybe just for less phase shift in the region between 10 kHz and 20 kHz.

Maybe. Or maybe not. What amount of phase shift in that region do you think is audible?

So, imho fast (slew rate!) amps simply sound better (due to phase perfection?) than amps that struggle even with 25 kHz.

Your opinion / belief is noted. I would love to see links to proper research showing that to be the case.

Audibility of phase differences in a non-binaural setting is greatly exaggerated in audiophile circles.

 

[Bleib]

Follow up on the blind test of Topping B100 vs Topping PA5II+, for who might still be interested

Ultra.USB > USB.SU8.XLR > XLR.B100
Ultra.RCA > RCA.PA5II+

Output volume matched by phone app (75 dB @ KEF R5 center driver, using 1 Khz sine tone), B100 at mid gain, volume corrected by SMSL SU8 (somehow the Ultra did not remember the volume output setting per output channel, although that option was enabled in the app).
Using one test track: Melody Gardot - Bad News. Using the same track might be a weakness in the test.
Ultra settings: no sub, only KEF R5 playing. Roomfit and EQ turned off

2 test subjects: my 18 year old son and I. My son is free from audiophilia (not scientifically proven though), listens to music with his JBL earbuds on his phone. I am 52 years of age, so frequentially challenged and also about 2 decades living with symptoms of audiophilia.

Results:
We both could pick the B100 amp, 5 out of 5 (or so). Sometimes switch to other amp, sometimes no. Always "fumbling" to not give much away, standing (crawling/lying down, the devices are placed low) in front of the equipment and cables and all.

What my son said:
"More detail, as if it is clearer" (B100)
"That instrument kind of irritates my ears" (PA5II+)

My remarks:
"It is easier to follow her voice, more silence around it or so" (B100)
"I feel stress, more pressure, a bit uneasy" (PA5II+)

If it is not the difference in distortion performance, which should be inaudible (106 vs 120), what is making the B100 sing?

• RCA input of P5II+ lesser blessed?
• "Control" on speaker drivers of the B100?
• Are we listening to difference in cables here...hardly ever could I hear that, unless it where some "custom"cables, like using networkcables for audio or something. Used in this test: "Tisino" XLR>TRS cables (MadeinChina, white label amazon brand?) and Blue Jeans RCA>RCA ("handcrafted in USA")
• Did the PA5II+went down in performance (read that here or some other (reddit?) forum
• Difference in "character" of Class D vs Class B? If so what is causing this?
• ...weaknesses, parental influences, power supply...

Suggestions welcome!

Well, I don't exactly know but there have been instances when weaker amps have been sounding cleaner mostly because it lacks the power to drive the bass fully, thus lowering the distorsion from the speakers by quite a bit

 

[Jazigo]

Follow up on the blind test of Topping B100 vs Topping PA5II+, for who might still be interested

Ultra.USB > USB.SU8.XLR > XLR.B100
Ultra.RCA > RCA.PA5II+

Output volume matched by phone app (75 dB @ KEF R5 center driver, using 1 Khz sine tone), B100 at mid gain, volume corrected by SMSL SU8 (somehow the Ultra did not remember the volume output setting per output channel, although that option was enabled in the app).
Using one test track: Melody Gardot - Bad News. Using the same track might be a weakness in the test.
Ultra settings: no sub, only KEF R5 playing. Roomfit and EQ turned off

2 test subjects: my 18 year old son and I. My son is free from audiophilia (not scientifically proven though), listens to music with his JBL earbuds on his phone. I am 52 years of age, so frequentially challenged and also about 2 decades living with symptoms of audiophilia.

Results:
We both could pick the B100 amp, 5 out of 5 (or so). Sometimes switch to other amp, sometimes no. Always "fumbling" to not give much away, standing (crawling/lying down, the devices are placed low) in front of the equipment and cables and all.

What my son said:
"More detail, as if it is clearer" (B100)
"That instrument kind of irritates my ears" (PA5II+)

My remarks:
"It is easier to follow her voice, more silence around it or so" (B100)
"I feel stress, more pressure, a bit uneasy" (PA5II+)

If it is not the difference in distortion performance, which should be inaudible (106 vs 120), what is making the B100 sing?

• RCA input of P5II+ lesser blessed?
• "Control" on speaker drivers of the B100?
• Are we listening to difference in cables here...hardly ever could I hear that, unless it where some "custom"cables, like using networkcables for audio or something. Used in this test: "Tisino" XLR>TRS cables (MadeinChina, white label amazon brand?) and Blue Jeans RCA>RCA ("handcrafted in USA")
• Did the PA5II+went down in performance (read that here or some other (reddit?) forum
• Difference in "character" of Class D vs Class B? If so what is causing this?
• ...weaknesses, parental influences, power supply...

Suggestions welcome!

Could it have something to do with the PFFB technology? The KEF R5 have an impedance boost at 3 kHz (or a EPDR boost for class b amps), that may not be handled all to well? I don't know, I am trying to think of ways that could change the sound. If I am right (which I am probably not), then it should be verifiable with a slightly different frequency response...

 

[totti1965]

Most amps on the market these days are capable enough. By the way, how do you define "hires"?

By definition „hires“ label is given from 96 kHz sampling frequency on. I think 88.2 kHz is fine. Don’t know if 20 or 24 Bits is needed.

Maybe. Or maybe not. What amount of phase shift in that region do you think is audible?

I don’t know. You will tell me?

Your opinion / belief is noted. I would love to see links to proper research showing that to be the case.

I am to lazy for organizing hi res files, transferring them to a computer storage, installing foobar 2000 (which I used to use in 2009 or so) etc.

Let the younger ears decide (I am happy with my Tidal account) what is audible:

0:00 min intro
2:02 min why do we….
3:49 min Problems…
8:01 min designing
14:18 min results
20:11 wrap up

I have spoken about younger people in my post above:

Hearing thresholds for pure tones above 16 kHz

Kaoru Ashihara
PMID: 17927307 DOI: 10.1121/1.2761883
Abstract

Hearing thresholds for pure tones between 16 and 30 kHz were measured by an adaptive method. The maximum presentation level at the entrance of the outer ear was about 110 dB SPL. To prevent the listeners from detecting subharmonic distortions in the lower frequencies, pink noise was presented as a masker. Even at 28 kHz, threshold values were obtained from 3 out of 32 ears. No thresholds were obtained for 30 kHz tone. Between 20 and 28 kHz, the threshold tended to increase rather gradually, whereas it increased abruptly between 16 and 20 kHz.



And, by the way also sharur claims that he can hear at least the difference between 44.1 kHz sampling frequency and 48 kHz in these foobar ABX Tests (but I dare not to show the YouTube link here, for the well known reasons )

Audibility of phase differences in a non-binaural setting is greatly exaggerated in audiophile circles.

No.

 

[Julf]

By definition „hires“ label is given from 96 kHz sampling frequency on. I think 88.2 kHz is fine. Don’t know if 20 or 24 Bits is needed.

And do you think it makes an audible difference?

Let the younger ears decide (I am happy with my Tidal account) what is audible:

That is not proper research in any way.

And, by the way also sharur claims that he can hear at least the difference between 44.1 kHz sampling frequency and 48 kHz in these foobar ABX Tests (but I dare not to show the YouTube link here, for the well known reasons)

Sure. Anyone can claim whatever they want. Especially on youtube.

No.

If you say so.

 

[antcollinet]

what is making the B100 sing?

Most likely inadequate controls

1 - You level matched in the sound domain (phone app db meter) A dB meter is not accurate enough to eliminate tells from level difference. It needs to be done electrically with a DVM. I don't know, but I'd also be surprised if your SU8 has sufficiently fine steps to achieve the 0.1 to 0.2dB accuracy needed. And the differences you've described are exactly those you can get from a small level mismatch. This point on its own is enough to call the test results into question.

2 - You used balanced inputs on one amp plus a different DAC, and RCA inputs on the other. Why? It means the upstream components, and connection method have changed sufficiently to create doubt in the integrity of the test.

3 - Insufficient trials - you used only 5. You need at least 10, with 8 out of 10 correct for statistical confidence. With only 5 trials you still have a 3% chance of getting 5 out of 5 from pure guesswork - but. you didn't get that (you stated 5 out of 5 "or so").

4 - You've mentioned yourself the changeover method - "fumbling". Far too much chance of giving unconcious tells here also.

 

[NoFuzz]

Most likely inadequate controls

1 - You level matched in the sound domain (phone app db meter) A dB meter is not accurate enough to eliminate tells from level difference. It needs to be done electrically with a DVM. I don't know, but I'd also be surprised if your SU8 has sufficiently fine steps to achieve the 0.1 to 0.2dB accuracy needed. And the differences you've described are exactly those you can get from a small level mismatch. This point on its own is enough to call the test results into question.

2 - You used balanced inputs on one amp plus a different DAC, and RCA inputs on the other. Why? It means the upstream components, and connection method have changed sufficiently to create doubt in the integrity of the test.

3 - Insufficient trials - you used only 5. You need at least 10, with 8 out of 10 correct for statistical confidence. With only 5 trials you still have a 3% chance of getting 5 out of 5 from pure guesswork - but. you didn't get that (you stated 5 out of 5 "or so").

4 - You've mentioned yourself the changeover method - "fumbling". Far too much chance of giving unconcious tells here also.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to read through our experience and for the sound (ha ha) and usefull advise!

Ad.1:
The SU8 has 40 steps, but accuracy is indeed about 0,1/0,2 as the level was not always constant but switching between 75.0/75.1 during readout the dB app of my phone.

If I understand correctly (DVM =Digital Volt Meter? Most probably not Doctor of Veterinary Medicine ;-) ) I can better measure the voltage on the speaker connectors instead of the dB's at the speaker driver itself? I can do that.

Ad.2:
Actually we are also comparing DAC's here, so indeed not that controlled.With the better DAC of the Ultra on the PA5.

If I want to use the B100 in my setup (surround & stereo) I need to use it through the SU-8 as the Ultra has no balanced output but does have digital out. For a speedy change I used the PA5 on RCA.
When I find time I'll redo the test with same connectors

Ad.3: 5 trials or so, didn't count them exactly. Each person. Every single trial was in favor of the B100 without doubts. With a 3(.125) % chance on guessing right...would you put your money on that? ;-)
When we redo it with same connection for both amps (either RCA or XLR), I'll keep the exact score.

Also have to see measurements of connections since that could also make a difference in sound.

Ad 4: very true! Maybe use a curtain in front or an eye patch for the testperson!

 

[ppataki]

Just sharing another experience with the B100 amps:

I took them to one of my friends who has a pair of Nubert nuBox 483 speakers (4 ohm, 87dB/1m sensitivity)
Listening distance was 3 meters and peaks reached above 90dB - the B100 never shut down

The DAC unit was a Scarlett 4i4 4th gen using balanced connections, and mid-gain on the B100 units

Just mentioning it on a side note that we also did some blind tests between Fosi V3 Mono and the B100 and I could tell the difference in 100% of the cases (just focusing on the cymbals in Hanna Boel's After Midnight track). Not sure if this test would qualify as 'perfect' but anyway.....

 

[HakanC]

Just mentioning it on a side note that we also did some blind tests between Fosi V3 Mono and the B100 and I could tell the difference in 100% of the cases

But which one did you like the most?

 

[ppataki]

But which one did you like the most?

That is subjective but I liked (in fact we both liked) the B100 better since the highs (cymbals, etc.) sounded less harsh and fatiguing

 

[antcollinet]

Not sure if this test would qualify as 'perfect

How level matched?

 

[ppataki]

How level matched?

At 1kHz in a fixed point with a microphone

 

[antcollinet]

At 1kHz in a fixed point with a microphone

No, not perfect then. Far from it. A microphone (or any measurement of in room SPL) is insufficiently accurate for level matching for a blind test. You have no idea if your perceptions came from the audio quality of the device, or from slightly mismatched levels.

 

[BachBomb]

I'm considering using a pair of B100s as power amps and my Marantz 1060 as a preamp. My apologies, I'm newer to the hobby and have heard that matching amps and preamps can be tricky. Are there any experts here who could tell me if this pairing works? A google search says it'll be fine, but I trust you guys more than the AI generated response. I want to avoid voltage choke and ensure the impedances are compatible. If anyone can help me here that would be awesome! Thanks!

 

[antcollinet]

I'm considering using a pair of B100s as power amps and my Marantz 1060 as a preamp. My apologies, I'm newer to the hobby and have heard that matching amps and preamps can be tricky. Are there any experts here who could tell me if this pairing works? A google search says it'll be fine, but I trust you guys more than the AI generated response. I want to avoid voltage choke and ensure the impedances are compatible. If anyone can help me here that would be awesome! Thanks!

I've not found any date that say what output voltage your Marantz outputs. The B100 require 1.5V input (high gain) to take it to ful power. If you have a meter, you should check what voltage appears on the output of the Marantz (pre out).

Impedances will be fine.

 

[BachBomb]

I've not found any date that say what output voltage your Marantz outputs. The B100 require 1.5V input (high gain) to take it to ful power. If you have a meter, you should check what voltage appears on the output of the Marantz (pre out).

Impedances will be fine.

Hey Antcollinet! Cheers for this. Really appreciate it. I'll try and pick up a meter to test it. The 1060 is an old unit but well maintained and recently serviced. I might ask the last technician who worked on it if they know.

Thanks again! Hope you have a great week!

 

[DavidMcRoy]

Does anyone know where to find a replacement 38V 4A power supply brick with the GX12 DC plug in the US? (I do a see a seller in the UK.) One that came with one of my B100s has died and Topping hasn't returned my emails. The amplifier is still under warranty. I don't now about any warranty for the brick, though.

 

[Bluedog]

It worked for no more than six months. It only worked in the background. The total operating time over six months was no more than 24 hours. The power indicator started blinking and the amplifier went silent. The distributor approved the replacement, but I don't really want it anymore with that history.

 

[ppataki]

It worked for no more than six months. It only worked in the background. The total operating time over six months was no more than 24 hours. The power indicator started blinking and the amplifier went silent. The distributor approved the replacement, but I don't really want it anymore with that history.

You mean the amp or the power supply?

 

[Bluedog]

You mean the amp or the power supplamp

amp