Topping B100 Amplifier Review

[NoFuzz]

Ha ha ha! I also was nearly killed in this forum because of telling the folks, that I can clearly hear a difference between my Fosi V3 and the Topping B100.
Alcohol makes things clearer sometimes…. LOL.

But the PA 5II…. that is another ballpark than the Fosi V3. I am pretty shure, that my 60-years old ears would not be able to detect any differences between them and the B100.

I admit I'm 10% subjective, which is why I treated myself to €150 worth of RCA cables for Christmas, which I had custom-made by the seller to a magical 1.44 meters – the length at which they supposedly sound the most harmonious.

Needless to say, I can clearly hear a difference compared to my previous €5 cables, but supposedly only if it is not blinded:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/324332118998

Oh but I drive even better when drinking!

Enjoy the cables, I already spent too much there in the past years

 

[Panelhead]

Totti,
Cables do affect sound quality. Never have seen what you purchased. No idea on the actual cable, the Delton connectors are interesting.
I have been using the original Eichmann copper Bullet plugs for a long time. I accidentally swapped a pair of cables when supposedly swapping disc players at a Texas Bottlehead meeting. Everyone in attendance was wowed by the Sonics from the new disc player. It was embarrassing to realize it was same player with a different interconnect.
The magic length is pure BS. If length mattered it would by based on wavelength of the notes in air. So different length determined by the frequency of the sound.
Read a review more than thirty years ago where the reviewer took the speed of sound in copper and confused it with the mu of speed of electricity in copper. Came up with time for sound to travel from amp to speakers was multiple milliseconds. Time smear. That explained the differences in cables.

 

[totti1965]

Oh but I drive even better when drinking!

Enjoy the cables, I already spent too much there in the past years

In 2005 to 2008, I used to play „Need for Speed underground 2“ (Today I play Real Racing 3):
My personal fastest lap then was driven with 2 beer (every beer with 5% of alcohol and 0.5 liters!)

So you can’t at least say „don’t drink and have a serious gaming“!

 

[antcollinet]

ables do affect sound quality.

Only in as much as if. you don't use them you get no sound.

Everything else is BS as long as you have sufficient cross sectional area for speaker cables.

 

[Panelhead]

We are all entitled to having opinions. I do hear differences, especially with line level. Not just me, some heavy hitters think cables can effect reproduced sound.
Benchmark sells Canare Star Quad because they measured readily available cabling and found they do less damage. Topping feels cables make a difference. John Yang and John Siau know more about sound reproduction than I will ever forget. And I doubt seriously their opinions are based on financial concerns.
If profit was Benchmark’s purpose for selling cables they would add a jacket, label them Benchmark, and triple the price. Topping includes cables with their products. I have a couple hooked up. I think both men do not want the performance of their electronics comprised by substandard cabling.
Cheaptest is bestest is not in their vocabulary.

 

[antcollinet]

I do hear differences, especially with line level.

I don't doubt that you do. What I contest is the reasons for that perception. It is not in the sound-waves reaching your ears, but is created in the wetware between them. It happens to all of us - all of the time. It is how our brains function.

I know this is the reason because there is no physical mechanism for even a basically properly constructed analogue interconnect to change the signal in any audible way.

But this is not the place to continue this discussion. This is a review thread, and should be left as such, we have other container threads for this kind of pointless debate. (And yes - I realise I have gotten sucked into it here also )

 

[Julf]

We are all entitled to having opinions.

Yes, but they are better received if based on facts and evidence. And we are all entitled to questioning questionable claims.

 

[HakanC]

Speaking of cables
@NoFuzz and @totti1965 (+ others of course) Do you use the B100 trigger cables between Ultra => B100?
This is the first time that I have used trigger cables and I was surprised over how east it was to hook it up (stackable interconnects) and that it works with different brands.
A very good example of working standards

 

[NoFuzz]

Speaking of cables
@NoFuzz and @totti1965 (+ others of course) Do you use the B100 trigger cables between Ultra => B100?
This is the first time that I have used trigger cables and I was surprised over how east it was to hook it up (stackable interconnects) and that it works with different brands.
A very good example of working standards

Yep, sometimes a standard emerges where every supplier agrees upon (and inplements the same way)

I also use it between Denon and the PA5 with a splitter in the PA5 trigger input. But maybe that is a wrong way of connecting them because when I use that splitter now, I get a (50hz?) hum, which disappears when disconnecting the Denon. Probably the splitter I found in the box of mysterious ancient audio artefacts I have here ;-)

 

[NoFuzz]

The next problem is integration of the Denon fronts. Routing through the Wim the delay is enormous even without any EQ. According to measurements with the OCA's excellent EVO Acoustica Windows app the fronts are about 20 meters away from the MLP...which is impossible for the Denon to compensate.

The only option I see (besides using the balanced Input wrong with a RCA>XLR cable) is using a DAC (SU8 in my case) with balanced output after the Ultra (Ultra>SU8 by USB, supposed to be highest quality from what I gathered). This has multiple disadvantages:
- not using the Wim DAC
- pops & clicks when using USB (maybe this is less when using optical or coax?). No big plops but I don't like that.

 

[Julf]

The only option I see (besides using the balanced Input wrong with a RCA>XLR cable)

The RCA->XLR cable is not a bad option.

 

[NoFuzz]

The RCA->XLR cable is not a bad option.

It is, according to tests here and my experience. What happens when using RCA>XLR is that the power performance drops enormously and makes in my case the amps crash into a safety shut down

 

[staticV3]

It is, according to tests here and my experience. What happens when using RCA>XLR is that the power performance drops enormously and makes in my case the amps crash into a safety shut down

Yeah for some reason Topping likes to build their Power Amps not with a regular differential input (in that case, RCA->XLR would work fine), but as effectively a dual mono single-ended configuration.

RCA->XLR just does not work there.

 

[Julf]

Yeah for some reason Topping likes to build their Power Amps not with a regular differential input (in that case, RCA->XLR would work fine), but as effectively a dual mono single-ended configuration.

RCA->XLR just does not work there.

Ah, OK, so a broken implementation.

 

[Sokel]

Ah, OK, so a broken implementation.

It does have an RCA input though.
Is the gain so different to become unusable?

(strange that is so restricted though, all amps I know work with RCA to XLR, it's kind of standard)

 

[Julf]

(strange that is so restricted though, all amps I know work with RCA to XLR, it's kind of standard)

They do if they have a properly implemented differential input (as implied by the balanced XLR connector).

 

[NoFuzz]

Follow up on the blind test of Topping B100 vs Topping PA5II+, for who might still be interested

Ultra.USB > USB.SU8.XLR > XLR.B100
Ultra.RCA > RCA.PA5II+

Output volume matched by phone app (75 dB @ KEF R5 center driver, using 1 Khz sine tone), B100 at mid gain, volume corrected by SMSL SU8 (somehow the Ultra did not remember the volume output setting per output channel, although that option was enabled in the app).
Using one test track: Melody Gardot - Bad News. Using the same track might be a weakness in the test.
Ultra settings: no sub, only KEF R5 playing. Roomfit and EQ turned off

2 test subjects: my 18 year old son and I. My son is free from audiophilia (not scientifically proven though), listens to music with his JBL earbuds on his phone. I am 52 years of age, so frequentially challenged and also about 2 decades living with symptoms of audiophilia.

Results:
We both could pick the B100 amp, 5 out of 5 (or so). Sometimes switch to other amp, sometimes no. Always "fumbling" to not give much away, standing (crawling/lying down, the devices are placed low) in front of the equipment and cables and all.

What my son said:
"More detail, as if it is clearer" (B100)
"That instrument kind of irritates my ears" (PA5II+)

My remarks:
"It is easier to follow her voice, more silence around it or so" (B100)
"I feel stress, more pressure, a bit uneasy" (PA5II+)

If it is not the difference in distortion performance, which should be inaudible (106 vs 120), what is making the B100 sing?

• RCA input of P5II+ lesser blessed?
• "Control" on speaker drivers of the B100?
• Are we listening to difference in cables here...hardly ever could I hear that, unless it where some "custom"cables, like using networkcables for audio or something. Used in this test: "Tisino" XLR>TRS cables (MadeinChina, white label amazon brand?) and Blue Jeans RCA>RCA ("handcrafted in USA")
• Did the PA5II+went down in performance (read that here or some other (reddit?) forum
• Difference in "character" of Class D vs Class B? If so what is causing this?
• ...weaknesses, parental influences, power supply...

Suggestions welcome!

 

[totti1965]

Follow up on the blind test of Topping B100 vs Topping PA5II+, for who might still be interested

Ultra.USB > USB.SU8.XLR > XLR.B100
Ultra.RCA > RCA.PA5II+

Output volume matched by phone app (75 dB @ KEF R5 center driver, using 1 Khz sine tone), B100 at mid gain, volume corrected by SMSL SU8 (somehow the Ultra did not remember the volume output setting per output channel, although that option was enabled in the app).
Using one test track: Melody Gardot - Bad News. Using the same track might be a weakness in the test.
Ultra settings: no sub, only KEF R5 playing. Roomfit and EQ turned off

2 test subjects: my 18 year old son and I. My son is free from audiophilia (not scientifically proven though), listens to music with his JBL earbuds on his phone. I am 52 years of age, so frequentially challenged and also about 2 decades living with symptoms of audiophilia.

Results:
We both could pick the B100 amp, 5 out of 5 (or so). Sometimes switch to other amp, sometimes no. Always "fumbling" to not give much away, standing (crawling/lying down, the devices are placed low) in front of the equipment and cables and all.

What my son said:
"More detail, as if it is clearer" (B100)
"That instrument kind of irritates my ears" (PA5II+)

My remarks:
"It is easier to follow her voice, more silence around it or so" (B100)
"I feel stress, more pressure, a bit uneasy" (PA5II+)

If it is not the difference in distortion performance, which should be inaudible (106 vs 120), what is making the B100 sing?

• RCA input of P5II+ lesser blessed?
• "Control" on speaker drivers of the B100?
• Are we listening to difference in cables here...hardly ever could I hear that, unless it where some "custom"cables, like using networkcables for audio or something. Used in this test: "Tisino" XLR>TRS cables (MadeinChina, white label amazon brand?) and Blue Jeans RCA>RCA ("handcrafted in USA")
• Did the PA5II+went down in performance (read that here or some other (reddit?) forum
• Difference in "character" of Class D vs Class B? If so what is causing this?
• ...weaknesses, parental influences, power supply...

Suggestions welcome!

What about: you both may have simply good ears!!!

1. B100 exactly double the bandwith compared with PA5II, which means, the B100 is twice as fast (perhaps audible for young ears with high def audio files or with analog records, for CD (20 kHz) the PA5II is perfectly fine and „fast enough“).

2. Intermodulation distortion (according to Bruno Putzeys extremely important for clearness of sound):
Minus 101dB (worst case) vs. minus 125dB worst case (20 Hz to 20 kHz).

3. 15 kHz distortions: worst case 0 to 50 Watts: minus 65dB PA5II vs better than minus 105dB B100!
That makes the B100 (at least in this test) 40dB better!!!

 

[Julf]

1. B100 exactly double the bandwith compared with PA5II, which means, the B100 is twice as fast (perhaps audible for young ears with high def audio files or with analog records, for CD (20 kHz) the PA5II is perfectly fine and „fast enough“).

"Fast" applies to cars and airplanes, but less so to amplifiers. As long as the amp is capable of reproducing 20 kHz at full power, it is "fast" enough.

3. 15 kHz distortions: worst case 0 to 50 Watts: minus 65dB PA5II vs better than minus 105dB B100!
That makes the B100 (at least in this test) 40dB better!!!

But the first distortion products of 15 kHz are at 30 kHz - you won't hear them.

 

[totti1965]

"Fast" applies to cars and airplanes, but less so to amplifiers. As long as the amp is capable of reproducing 20 kHz at full power, it is "fast enough“.

I don’t think so: last week I got a new dongle, which was not louder than the DAC which is included in the iPad 6.
Unintentionally I found out, why the sound of the JCally JM7, which I bought for EUR 4,29 was simply more natural and airy, maybe in near subcontious way, than listening over the headphone direct in the iPad.
Tom’s dinner from Suzanne Vega was without the JCally downsampled to 48 kHz sampling frequency and with the JM7 it has had full 96 kHz sampling frequency.

I didn’t know that while listening, I didn’t expect any differences before listening and I just investigated for the reason, „why the heck does it sound a tiny bit better with the dongle?“ after the first listening session.

So: if I want to hear hires files, I need a capable amp.
Maybe just for less phase shift in the region between 10 kHz and 20 kHz.

So, imho fast (slew rate!) amps simply sound better (due to phase perfection?) than amps that struggle even with 25 kHz.