Topping B100 Amplifier Review

[jwr159]

Thanks static V3.

Interesting calculation. At 49.W/channel, my guess is the b100s are just over the edge of working. I will probably order a pair on Amazon and give them a try. Only true way to find out for sure.

 

[Panelhead]

I think the mid gain is the recommended setting for most applications. I used it with high efficiency speakers. Later selected low gain.
With the Topping E70 Velvet set to 5 volt output the low gain, dac combo is fine. Never turned the attenuator above -10dB so far. Classical music seems to get very loud from time to time. Sometimes is almost hard to hear. The dynamic range fits well within the current gain structure.
I doubt running the B100 at no gain and dac at -15dB measures the same as mid gain and dac attenuated down around -27dB. But difference is very small.

 

[FERCSA]

I think the mid gain is the recommended setting for most applications. I used it with high efficiency speakers. Later selected low gain.
With the Topping E70 Velvet set to 5 volt output the low gain, dac combo is fine. Never turned the attenuator above -10dB so far. Classical music seems to get very loud from time to time. Sometimes is almost hard to hear. The dynamic range fits well within the current gain structure.
I doubt running the B100 at no gain and dac at -15dB measures the same as mid gain and dac attenuated down around -27dB. But difference is very small.

Everthing is depends on your listening volume with an little bit of extra headroom.
I'm an adovocate to set the proper gain staging for every hifi system to get the most out of it.

I advise everyone that search gain "staging" in this thread to understand it more or visit this great article with a studio engineer's standpoint: link

 

[ppataki]

My first pair of Topping B100 have arrived earlier this week

Just sharing my experience here, it might be useful for others with a similar use-case to mine

I have recently completed my latest DIY speaker build, my first 3-way system ever:

3D printed classic 3-way budget speaker project using SB and Dayton drivers

The woofer's cabinet is also done! And some knock test, as always: https://photos.app.goo.gl/vsZwHqL5fQb29oRn8 Unfortunately there is some air leakage issue that I will need to fix tomorrow + I still need to print some holders I might be able to make all the 3-ways function by Sunday...

www.audiosciencereview.com

It is fully active, I am using Jriver as DSP on a PC connected to a multichannel DDC (U-DIO8) that is connected to three Sabaj A30A full digital amps via coax SPDIF

I have decided to gradually replace the three A30A with six B100 and a 10-channel DAC (Scarlett 18i20 4th gen) - I know I won't gain anything but my OCD is way stronger here

So when the first pair arrived I connected them to the 8" woofers of my speakers (they have a HPF at 80Hz to the two subs) and I started to crank up the volume with kick drum intensive music and movies at relatively loud level (98-100dB peaks at 2.5m). The amps never went to protection mode and even after hours of doing this they only got lukewarm (and they are stashed away in IKEA Besta cabinets; those that you can see in the above link)

Most likely this is because of the HPF at 80Hz, but if there is anybody out there with a similar use-case, I guess feel free to get these amps

Now I have switched the amps to drive the tweeters and in 2-3 weeks' time the second pair will arrive that I am going to drive the midrange speakers with
And finally early next year I will order the third pair too, driving the woofers

In such an active multi-way scenario I believe these amps could be a great choice, driving individual speakers that are bandwidth limited
Of course I would never ever consider these amps to drive my 2-ohm subs, for that I am using a pair of 3e Audio A7 Mono amps

I hope this helps
EDIT: I am using fully balanced connections for all channels

 

[Panelhead]

My first pair of Topping B100 have arrived

So when the first pair arrived I connected them to the 8" woofers of my speakers (they have a HPF at 80Hz to the two subs) and I started to crank up the volume with kick drum intensive music and movies at relatively loud level (98-100dB peaks at 2.5m). The amps never went to protection mode and even after hours of doing this they only got lukewarm (and they are stashed away in IKEA Besta cabinets; those that you can see in the above link)

Most likely this is because of the HPF at 80Hz,

In such an active multi-way scenario I believe these amps could be a great choice, driving individual speakers that are bandwidth limited
Of course I would never ever consider these amps to drive my 2-ohm subs, for that I am using a pair of 3e Audio A7 Mono amps

I hope this helps

Yes and no. I use my pair to drive three way passive horns. Heavily modified Klipsch 70th Anniversary La Scala’s. Full range. With sub.
But have a set of three way pro active monitors that have 8” woofers and a 80 Hz high pass coming from the subs. Active crossovers are built into the subs. Gnarly Blue Sky Mid Blue system.
Big, heavy, and ugly.
Testing them after long storage, the dynamics from the actives completely blow away the 200 lb La Scala’s. The Blue Sky team was M&K. Whoever designed the 100 watt class AB modules was good. Each side has three and two 200 watt modules in each sub.
I think all the bandpass filtering saves the drivers more than the amps.
For home use adding speaker terminals and driving with a stack of B100’s would most likely be a big improvement in low level listening.
I had those Mid Blues in my listening room for a couple years. Used a Lyngdorf Room Perfect DRC to blend subs to monitors. It is 20 - 500 Hz. But those actives needed to run. Like you mentioned 100dB peaks. At my current listening levels they just did not come alive.
If this was my plan, replacing interval AB modules with Topping amps it would be B100’s on top three and a pair of B200 for subs. Might not bark as loud, but would whimper and cry better.

 

[Julf]

Testing them after long storage, the dynamics from the actives completely blow away the 200 lb La Scala’s.

Just curious, what exactly is "dynamics", how is it measured, and what do you think causes the difference?

 

[Panelhead]

It is the difference between loud and soft passages. Think dynamic compression, which most music has. The difference between highest level and softest.
Music that has wide dynamic range sometimes requires turning up to hear the softer passages. Then blows out your eardrums during the loud passages.
Horns are very dynamic. The compression drivers only moves a little, loading amplifies output. The large studio monitors are designed to playback as recorded, before mastering.
I like to believe that active speakers shine in dynamics. I have several sets of smaller studio monitors/ two way actives, The drivers in all are directly connected to the amplifiers. No capacitors, resistors, or chokes in series or shunt.
Think passive crossovers can cause dynamic compression. Current through a capacitor, saturation in a choke. Current generating heat in resistors. Positive tempco in resistors
can work as a limiter.

 

[Julf]

It is the difference between loud and soft passages. Think dynamic compression, which most music has. The difference between highest level and softest.

Sure. That is in the source material. And yes, you can have some compression in a speaker (mostly because of heat affecting the magnets in the driver - thus things like ferrofluid), but how does an amplifier affect dynamics as long as it isn't clipping/distorting heavily?

 

[Jazigo]

Hi everyone!

I am looking at this amp, but I want to use it in 0db mode. Crazy, I know, but that got me thinking: do I actually need a amp for that? Or could a simpler circuit do the same? I mean, would it be enough with a very low impedance buffer at the output of the DAC?

 

[NoFuzz]

Hello,

Sharing my experience with a set of B100's driving KEF R5's (not meta): when played just a tad louder than my normal listening level, these little devils went into protection mode. For the data: I measured around 70 dB on my listening spot with an app when they blew, in a room of about 6,00m x 5,00m, opening at the back to stairs.

Just a reset revived them. It happesn everytime with a passage asking some more bass control (Tool, Chocolate Chip Trip, when the bassdrum kicks in for example, around 2:20).

Tried to see if it made a difference if I changed input gain setting (H/M/L) and also line output from my Wiim Ultra, to no avail. Also changed wiring: tried RCA>TRS first, also went from Wiim Ultra>USB>SMSL SU8.XLR>B100.TRS to get a balanced connection but same happened. So this is probably the <4ohm "trip"?

Performance when they were working was excellent, compared to a stereo PA5IIplus it seems cleaner on all fronts, a less stressed feel on my ears (yeah. I know. I was going to type "more black" here...oh now I did anyway) . ABX testing is hard, but I can switch the speaker cables pretty fast and repeat the same track again and every time I heard the same difference...but no science here. Som maybe it's just my ears & mind here playing tricks.

Anyway, I will return them and thought I'd share if any R5 owner wants to go the same way, here is a warning

Best alternative around same pricerange I can find is Audiophonics AS300-s250nc (https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...ifier-ncore-nc252mp-2x250w-4-ohm-p-18419.html).
Would this be a better combination?

 

[Julf]

ABX testing is hard, but I can switch the speaker cables pretty fast and repeat the same track again and every time I heard the same difference...but no science here. Som maybe it's just my ears & mind here playing tricks.

Indeed. Not only not ABX, but definitely not double blind.

 

[totti1965]

Tried to see if it made a difference if I changed input gain setting (H/M/L) and also line output from my Wiim Ultra, to no avail. Also changed wiring: tried RCA>TRS first, also went from Wiim Ultra>USB>SMSL SU8.XLR>B100.TRS to get a balanced connection but same happened. So this is probably the <4ohm "trip"?

Best alternative around same pricerange I can find is Audiophonics AS300-s250nc (https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...ifier-ncore-nc252mp-2x250w-4-ohm-p-18419.html).
Would this be a better combination?

I am not shure, if I understand you right - What is TRS? Try just WiiM RCA-out to B100 RCA-in (perhaps with mid gain?).

Maybe you are using a XLR to chinch adapter???
This can limit the output capabilities from 50 Watts @ 8 Ohms to just 2 Watts or so.
As you can see in the earlier postings, the B100 has a big problem here, because of its construction.
So: use just RCA to RCA or XLR to XLR as a connection to the source.
It’s a pity that Topping is not telling this in its owners manual!
I am pretty sure, that with direct (without adapter) connection to your source (or preamp) you can reach much much more than 70dB at your listening point, even in your larger room!

And yes: the Audiophonics has realistically measured, exactly twice as much power as the B100!
So you can play your music 3dB louder.

Using an XLR to Cinch Cable (or an Adapter) with the B100 kills you 13dB of its potential!

 

[HakanC]

Performance when they were working was excellent, compared to a stereo PA5IIplus it seems cleaner on all fronts, a less stressed feel on my ears (yeah. I know. I was going to type "more black" here...oh now I did anyway) . ABX testing is hard, but I can switch the speaker cables pretty fast and repeat the same track again and every time I heard the same difference...but no science here. Som maybe it's just my ears & mind here playing tricks.

Anyway, I will return them and thought I'd share if any R5 owner wants to go the same way, here is a warning

Perhaps the twice as expensive B200s would work better for You and still keep most of the advantages from the B100s?

Try just WiiM RCA-out to B100 RCA-in (perhaps with mid gain?).

Thats the way my WiiM Ultra is connected to my B100s, no problems at all.
But my speakers are small and ~5 Ω and I don't play very loud.

 

[NoFuzz]

I am not shure, if I understand you right - What is TRS? Try just WiiM RCA-out to B100 RCA-in (perhaps with mid gain?).

Maybe you are using a XLR to chinch adapter???
This can limit the output capabilities from 50 Watts @ 8 Ohms to just 2 Watts or so.
As you can see in the earlier postings, the B100 has a big problem here, because of its construction.
So: use just RCA to RCA or XLR to XLR as a connection to the source.
It’s a pity that Topping is not telling this in its owners manual!
I am pretty sure, that with direct (without adapter) connection to your source (or preamp) you can reach much much more than 70dB at your listening point, even in your larger room!

And yes: the Audiophonics has realistically measured, exactly twice as much power as the B100!
So you can play your music 3dB louder.

Using an XLR to Cinch Cable (or an Adapter) with the B100 kills you 13dB of its potential!

Thank you for that info, that was indeed not in the manual! Seller on amazon also did not mention that when I asked about it.

TRS is indeed the balanced XLR input, but the B100 balanced connector is the TRS version where you can either connect a original XLR (With the 3 pins) or the 3.5mm "jack" version which I used. So thorugh that I also tried the balanced method by connecting a SMSL SU8 DAC using USB from the Ultra and the XLR as balanced output from the SU8 to the B100 TRS balanced input with the same error happening, though it might happen on a bit louder volume but I didn't measure the dB pressure on that.

So either balanced or unbalanced it hits the limits of the amp with the KEF R5's...

 

[NoFuzz]

Perhaps the twice as expensive B200s would work better for You and still keep most of the advantages from the B100s?


Thats the way my WiiM Ultra is connected to my B100s, no problems at all.
But my speakers are small and ~5 Ω and I don't play very loud.

The B200's are so much more expensive, that's why I am considering the Audiophonics with the Hypex. Or maybe I'll wait for the next amplifier that measures as well. AS I read here many times, there should not be any difference in sound character with good amps. So the difference I (assume to) hear might be because the B100's performance better the PA5IIplus (and most likely the other amps I've had here, the Music Hall A70.2 and Hegel H90)

 

[NoFuzz]

I am not shure, if I understand you right - What is TRS? Try just WiiM RCA-out to B100 RCA-in (perhaps with mid gain?).

Maybe you are using a XLR to chinch adapter???
This can limit the output capabilities from 50 Watts @ 8 Ohms to just 2 Watts or so.
As you can see in the earlier postings, the B100 has a big problem here, because of its construction.
So: use just RCA to RCA or XLR to XLR as a connection to the source.
It’s a pity that Topping is not telling this in its owners manual!
I am pretty sure, that with direct (without adapter) connection to your source (or preamp) you can reach much much more than 70dB at your listening point, even in your larger room!

And yes: the Audiophonics has realistically measured, exactly twice as much power as the B100!
So you can play your music 3dB louder.

Using an XLR to Cinch Cable (or an Adapter) with the B100 kills you 13dB of its potential!

I just tested with RCA>RCA connection, and I can play louder for longer, almost cancelled the return...until it happened again! Wiim Ultra on 800mV out, B100 gain on highest, playing Celestial Echo by Yello & Malia (

) on Tidal. Not at once, but somewhere during the first 1 or 2 minutes of the track the B100 "crashed". Luckily they don't ever crash with a big bang but gracefully, so no danger to the speakers. Return not cancelled...

 

[totti1965]

Thats the way my WiiM Ultra is connected to my B100s, no problems at all.
But my speakers are small and ~5 Ω and I don't play very loud.

This is EXACTLY my listening situation! WiiM + B100 + 85 dB speaker (6.5 foot listening distance). Normally not more than 3 Watts or so peak power needed for me

great link from @Dj7675:

Peak SPL Calculator

 

[Roland68]

Hello,

Sharing my experience with a set of B100's driving KEF R5's (not meta): when played just a tad louder than my normal listening level, these little devils went into protection mode. For the data: I measured around 70 dB on my listening spot with an app when they blew, in a room of about 6,00m x 5,00m, opening at the back to stairs.

Just a reset revived them. It happesn everytime with a passage asking some more bass control (Tool, Chocolate Chip Trip, when the bassdrum kicks in for example, around 2:20).

Tried to see if it made a difference if I changed input gain setting (H/M/L) and also line output from my Wiim Ultra, to no avail. Also changed wiring: tried RCA>TRS first, also went from Wiim Ultra>USB>SMSL SU8.XLR>B100.TRS to get a balanced connection but same happened. So this is probably the <4ohm "trip"?

Performance when they were working was excellent, compared to a stereo PA5IIplus it seems cleaner on all fronts, a less stressed feel on my ears (yeah. I know. I was going to type "more black" here...oh now I did anyway) . ABX testing is hard, but I can switch the speaker cables pretty fast and repeat the same track again and every time I heard the same difference...but no science here. Som maybe it's just my ears & mind here playing tricks.

Anyway, I will return them and thought I'd share if any R5 owner wants to go the same way, here is a warning

Best alternative around same pricerange I can find is Audiophonics AS300-s250nc (https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...ifier-ncore-nc252mp-2x250w-4-ohm-p-18419.html).
Would this be a better combination?

Have you tried activating a high-pass filter on your Wiim Ultra?
This relieves both the amplifier and speakers of low frequencies that the speakers can't reproduce anyway. This often results in a cleaner and more relaxed sound.
I'd start with 40 Hz.

 

[Julf]

W

Have you tried activating a high-pass filter on your Wiim Ultra?
This relieves both the amplifier and speakers of low frequencies that the speakers can't reproduce anyway. This often results in a cleaner and more relaxed sound.
I'd start with 40 Hz.

What is the measurement unit for relaxed-ness of sound?

 

[totti1965]

I just tested with RCA>RCA connection, and I can play louder for longer, almost cancelled the return...until it happened again! Wiim Ultra on 800mV out, B100 gain on highest, playing Celestial Echo by Yello & Malia (

) on Tidal. Not at once, but somewhere during the first 1 or 2 minutes of the track the B100 "crashed". Luckily they don't ever crash with a big bang but gracefully, so no danger to the speakers. Return not cancelled...

The KEF R5 reaches 3.2 Ohms @150 Hz- perhaps a bit low for the Topping B100 (EPDR reaches 2.25 Ohms!):

So best cheap tricks are

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...ifier-ncore-nc252mp-2x250w-4-ohm-p-18419.html

or even with smaller Form Factor:

AUDIOPHONICS MPA-S250NC RCA Power Amplifier Class D Stereo Ncore NC252MP 2x250W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

The Audiophonics MPA-S252NC XLR is a stereo amplifier based on an amplification module Hypex Ncore NC252MP. This solution is ideal for anyone who wants to have a large power reserve (2x150W) without sacrificing sound reproduction quality.

www.audiophonics.fr

(this is also aviable with XLR Connections for the exact same price!)

or - with same power: 3 e audio!

A7:
https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/powe...tereo-ncore-nc252mp-2x250w-4-ohm-p-14278.html

A5:

3e Audio A5 Stereo Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the 3e Audio A5 Stereo class D amplifier. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $229.99. Despite its simplicity, the A5 has very well thought out features. Clipping indicators are provided for each channel. And selection of inputs is made...

www.audiosciencereview.com

By the way, the A5 with 38 Volts 5 Ampere is on sale now for EUR 155,69 at Ali Express. Even 20 % more power than the B100 and also better low impedance capabilities!

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005008464240498.html?pdp_npi=4%40dis%21EUR%21216.01%21157.69%21%21%21243.34%21177.64%21%402102f32217638618552664688e5191%2112000045903864268%21affd%21%21%21&dp=Cj0KCQiAiqDJBhCXARIsABk2kSmL050uo8mIsTrWhcbs2SpIdJIbz5k3bsL32d4_nyU73OoQYR5SWoYaAu6xEALw_wcB%7C0AAAAA_48aDSTRQyYf_nieptuR8V9cQxOG%7CCj4KCAiA55rJBhB_Ei4AXRz6zkgyF8w4sbAHqPCdPCJbnX21_m4brM9lSZhKEiBO4Q6nRysa-LkE4c4dGgLQKw%7Cv1&cn=de_a_2&gad_source=1&aff_fcid=6839c543fc60400c96c95362423a3220-1764251795458-01228-_onKPRpM&aff_fsk=_onKPRpM&aff_platform=api-new-product-query&sk=_onKPRpM&aff_trace_key=6839c543fc60400c96c95362423a3220-1764251795458-01228-_onKPRpM&terminal_id=1ffec94db1a34b169aed713d92a1c143&afSmartRedirect=y

I think, it makes no sense to wait any longer - they won’t go cheaper and they won’t go (audibly) better.[/URL]