Topping B100 Amplifier Review

[Earwax]

Can any harm arise from using 5 VRMS output of D50 III to B100 8.6 VRMS medium gain ?

B100 BAL spec`s
Low Gain 26.6 VRMS
Medium Gain 8.6 VRMS
High Gain 3.0 VRMS

I can`t find a topping pre amp or Dac that can output the 26.6 VRMS needed for the low gain setting on the B100.

I`m definitely not disappointed with the performance using the BAL connections B100 high gain with D50 III Dac just interested in trying out medium or low gain.

This setup drives my Wharfedale Arura 2 with ease and purity, only when I crank it to a level where the people above, below and next door will hear it loudly through my concrete walls of the 40 floor condo tower does it safety shut down.

D50 III volume level is usually 30db to 25db sometimes 20db when I want it loud , the B100 safety shuts down around 10db on the D50 III dac.

D50 III has volume control db from 100 to zero...

 

[SoySalsaPicante]

Can any harm arise from using 5 VRMS output of D50 II to B100 8.6 VRMS medium gain ?

B100 BAL spec`s
Low Gain 26.6 VRMS
Medium Gain 8.6 VRMS
High Gain 3.0 VRMS

I can`t find a topping pre amp or Dac that can output the 26.6 VRMS needed for the low gain setting on the B100.

I`m definitely not disappointed with the performance using the BAL connections B100 high gain with D50 II Dac just interested in trying out medium or low gain.

This setup drives my Wharfedale Arura 2 with ease and purity, only when I crank it to a level where the people above, below and next door will hear it loudly through my concrete walls of the 40 floor condo tower does it safety shut down.

D50 II volume level is usually 30db to 25db sometimes 20db when I want it loud , the B100 safety shuts down around 10db on the D50 II dac.

You can get way up there with a Benchmark DAC3, which can go to 18.3V. RME ADI-2 DAC FS hits 6.9V. RME ADI-2 Pro FS will push 19.5V!

 

[staticV3]

After looking at the A900 headphone amp, that may be the one for me rather than 2 b100s. They both swing 60v, but you get that sweet stepped attenuator and an apparently better internal dual mono power supply. Perhaps better heat management? Load impedance isn't a problem.

Two of those for tweeters and midrange and maybe a couple b200s for the base.

A900 has minimum load impedance of >8Ω, fyi.

 

[toobs]

A900 has minimum load impedance of >8Ω, fyi

TAD TD-2001s are 16 ohm, mids are 24. Woofers are a different story.

 

[toobs]

Can any harm arise from using 5 VRMS output of D50 II to B100 8.6 VRMS medium gain ?

Absolutely no harm. That figure is not a requirement. It is just the voltage your preamp needs to swing in order to get full output.

 

[TNT]

Unfortunately you can. Inter-sample peaks can go a fair bit above 0 dBFS. I have seen +3 dB not infrequently with modern hyper-compressed music.

Does it matter - this kind of music can be seen as distortion in its own right - yes, I mean the whole song ;-D

//

 

[toobs]

Does it matter - this kind of music can be seen as distortion in its own right - yes, I mean the whole song ;-D

//

I think it may be a matter of intermodulation distortion...something that doesn't really play a part in music.

 

[Earwax]

More power can be extracted by using finer steps in the input sweep voltage prior to protection circuit shutting down. So I suspect with out playing around you may be able to get there.

Just to be perfectly clear I have no circuit design experience and only inquiring if the quick connect power supply at the unit itself could be a culprit for adding heat due to not having more solid connection, it works but is it the optimal design for this high quality Power Amplifier ?

I own the B100`s and found the one placed on the left was warmer to the touch than the one on the right at times. but after moving the power quick connect at the unit from side to side the heat dropped down... This has happened every time I move or adjust the position of the amp.

I removed the quick connect cord from the unit and ever so gently adjusted the 2 tiny pins outward 1 to the left 1 to the right so now when I plug the quick connect into the unit it feels more secure when pushing the 2 together & the wobble side to side is a bit stiffer. Just don`t try to get all the wobble out. I`m no expert in this arena just a DIY kind of handyman so if your B100`s are the same operating temp your gold.

It would be great to see them just solder that wire to the unit and have that cord unplug from the power supply instead so no problems, that would cancel out any assembly mishaps where those tiny pins might get touched to hard and bent or misaligned.

I was considering soldering that power supply wire to the amp to bypass the fragile quick connect but only if someone can clarify if this might possibly solve the possibility of an early safety shut down ? I honestly can`t say if they have ever gone into safety shut down sooner than they should as the B100`s are driving 6 ohm 3 way speakers Wharfedale Arura 2 and I have no understanding of how to measure the watts going to the speakers...

I will state they are as loud as I can have inside my 40 floor solid concrete condo and so loud if they were at max volume power I would have many complaints and eventually be given notice so the safety shut down I have experienced is of no inconvenience for me, but they still sounds so amazing at those very high levels it`s a curiosity tease and that`s all.

It appears so far people are guessing about this topic of early safety shut down happening.

Thank you for your time

On a side note the B100`s are as loud as I need and too loud at there full volume output for Condo living it`s a 40 floor concrete beast.. I would say even a large living room of a monster house these would be enough unless you want to blast the music so 50 or 100 watts is gold ?

I`m using the D50 III dac in Dac Mode to the Recently Purchased A70 Pro in Low Gain using balanced connections the B100`s also in Low Gain.

I can still trip the safety shut down of the B100`s when I go past the 5dB when playing a track with a high line level volume, a lower line level volume song like Love Over Gold by Dire Straits on Tidal I can have the A70 pro at max volume without tripping the safety shutdown.

The speakers are the Wharfedale Aura 2 a 3 way deign with a recommended amplifier power rating from 25 watts to 150 watts...

And yes with this setup I find the audio to be as perfect as it could be even at max volume, using the balanced wire design we are current lee using ;-/

Off topic: just sharing I have only one possible upgrade I will be trying but that involves soldering a different design of wiring to the balanced connections, removing the tiny stock wire and replacing it with both 24 AWG and 18 AWG that run side by side to each solder point. I`ve noticed an improvement applying this design to my speaker wire to and from the amps.

 

[FERCSA]

Just to be perfectly clear I have no circuit design experience and only inquiring if the quick connect power supply at the unit itself could be a culprit for adding heat due to not having perfect connection, it works but is it the optimal design for this high quality Power Amplifier ?

I own the B100`s and found that one placed on the left was warmer to the touch than the one on the right at times. but after moving the power quick connect at the unit from side to side the heat dropped down... This has happened every time I move or adjust the position the the amp.

I removed the quick connect cord from the unit and ever so gently adjusted the 2 tiny pins outward 1 to the left 1 to the right so know when I plug the quick connect into the unit it feels more secure less wobble side to side even with the screw tight it had some lose play from side to side before, Now it still has play in it but not as lose.

It would be great to see them just solder that wire to the unit as that cord already disconnects from the power supply so no problems and that would cancel out any assembly mishaps where those tiny pins might get touched to hard and bent inward.

I was considering soldering that power supply wire to the amp to bypass the fragile quick connect but only if someone can clarify if this might possibly solve the early safety shut down ?

Thank you for your time

Maybe looks fragile but those connectors are robust GX connectors used in heavy duty application. There are marine version as well. So I dont think those are the culprit of your problem nor the early shutdown.
Altough there are a lot of chinese vendor who makes these type of connectors for pennies so there is a chance you got a low quality one. QA is not their strong suit compare to Neutrik. I think we can say that.
Do you have a thermometer to confirm? (Just to make it more scientific since you are the first to bring this up.)

In my case I'm using a splitter with one common psu and my units are still working fine in my active setup. I didnt experience any heat increase or sort of.

Also I hadn't have the chance to thinker around and use one as a guinea pig in any way. I promised many pages back if one of my amp dies I'll take it to pieces but they are still going strong in my setup.
Btw if anyone have or see a broken unit just let me know.




EDIT: I think I ordered some extra GX connectors when I put together my splitter a year ago. I have to look around. If there is any I can run some power stress test with my dc load.

EDIT2: Honestly if a connector is bad or loose that would be the first to heat up..

 

[Earwax]

Not fragile yes that was a bit of any over statement to drive home a weakness in the design from the extra wiggle room.

The round nut that secures the connector in place is it`s strength but those pins, it was weak finger strength to move the pins outward just a hair, it`s no deal breaker I have no regrets purchasing the B100`s I don`t expect absolute perfection from anyone and they are so close to that with the B100`s. But that small upgrade would sooth so many feathers.

If, that was the case I`m sure a female end could be sent out that would have a firm no play connection people could upgrade it themselves or for people who don`t do things for themselves a male to female insert to add between the supplied connection.


I always forgot to take a temperature reading but I can say for certain it was warmer than the other probably around 5C or less difference.

That being said they have always both gone into safety shut down at the exact same time when I test the limits of that built in feature so safety shut down may not be affected.

All this being said knowing what I know now I would still happily purchase them again and have no issue recommending them to others this is such a small detail as far as a connector pin getting misaligned as having it realigned can be done by anyone with a gentle touch it`s not a concern you probably will have no need to disconnect it once you setup anyway and being aware of something is a helping hand.

 

[DavidMcRoy]

I'm now using three of these to drive front left, center and right channel ESS Heil AMT (Large) tweeters in my DIY open baffles. The Heil AMTs are the new product, not antiques. The Heils have a ruler flat impedance at 4 Ohms and are very efficient. Running the B100s in "low" gain, I have to attenuate input by 2dB to match the other drivers in the system. This is an active system using DSP for crossovers and EQ, so only a protective 100uF capacitor sits between each B100 and the Heils. The DSP crossover is set for 24dB/octave Bessel at 1,500Hz. Needless to say, the sound is extremely clean and detailed and extremely quiet, and there's power to spare in this application.

 

[Roland68]

Just to be perfectly clear I have no circuit design experience and only inquiring if the quick connect power supply at the unit itself could be a culprit for adding heat due to not having more solid connection, it works but is it the optimal design for this high quality Power Amplifier ?

I own the B100`s and found the one placed on the left was warmer to the touch than the one on the right at times. but after moving the power quick connect at the unit from side to side the heat dropped down... This has happened every time I move or adjust the position of the amp.

I removed the quick connect cord from the unit and ever so gently adjusted the 2 tiny pins outward 1 to the left 1 to the right so now when I plug the quick connect into the unit it feels more secure when pushing the 2 together & the wobble side to side is a bit stiffer. Just don`t try to get all the wobble out. I`m no expert in this arena just a DIY kind of handyman so if your B100`s are the same operating temp your gold.

It would be great to see them just solder that wire to the unit and have that cord unplug from the power supply instead so no problems, that would cancel out any assembly mishaps where those tiny pins might get touched to hard and bent or misaligned.

I was considering soldering that power supply wire to the amp to bypass the fragile quick connect but only if someone can clarify if this might possibly solve the possibility of an early safety shut down ? I honestly can`t say if they have ever gone into safety shut down sooner than they should as the B100`s are driving 6 ohm 3 way speakers Wharfedale Arura 2 and I have no understanding of how to measure the watts going to the speakers...

I will state they are as loud as I can have inside my 40 floor solid concrete condo and so loud if they were at max volume power I would have many complaints and eventually be given notice so the safety shut down I have experienced is of no inconvenience for me, but they still sounds so amazing at those very high levels it`s a curiosity tease and that`s all.

It appears so far people are guessing about this topic of early safety shut down happening.

Thank you for your time

On a side note the B100`s are as loud as I need and too loud at there full volume output for Condo living it`s a 40 floor concrete beast.. I would say even a large living room of a monster house these would be enough unless you want to blast the music so 50 or 100 watts is gold ?

I`m using the D50 III dac in Dac Mode to the Recently Purchased A70 Pro in Low Gain using balanced connections the B100`s also in Low Gain.

I can still trip the safety shut down of the B100`s when I go past the 5dB when playing a track with a high line level volume, a lower line level volume song like Love Over Gold by Dire Straits on Tidal I can have the A70 pro at max volume without tripping the safety shutdown.

The speakers are the Wharfedale Aura 2 a 3 way deign with a recommended amplifier power rating from 25 watts to 150 watts...

And yes with this setup I find the audio to be as perfect as it could be even at max volume, using the balanced wire design we are current lee using ;-/

Off topic: just sharing I have only one possible upgrade I will be trying but that involves soldering a different design of wiring to the balanced connections, removing the tiny stock wire and replacing it with both 24 AWG and 18 AWG that run side by side to each solder point. I`ve noticed an improvement applying this design to my speaker wire to and from the amps.

Not fragile yes that was a bit of any over statement to drive home a weakness in the design from the extra wiggle room.

The round nut that secures the connector in place is it`s strength but those pins, it was weak finger strength to move the pins outward just a hair, it`s no deal breaker I have no regrets purchasing the B100`s I don`t expect absolute perfection from anyone and they are so close to that with the B100`s. But that small upgrade would sooth so many feathers.

If, that was the case I`m sure a female end could be sent out that would have a firm no play connection people could upgrade it themselves or for people who don`t do things for themselves a male to female insert to add between the supplied connection.


I always forgot to take a temperature reading but I can say for certain it was warmer than the other probably around 5C or less difference.

That being said they have always both gone into safety shut down at the exact same time when I test the limits of that built in feature so safety shut down may not be affected.

All this being said knowing what I know now I would still happily purchase them again and have no issue recommending them to others this is such a small detail as far as a connector pin getting misaligned as having it realigned can be done by anyone with a gentle touch it`s not a concern you probably will have no need to disconnect it once you setup anyway and being aware of something is a helping hand.

It would be nice if @TOPPING could get rid of all these toy connectors and use something tried and tested for amplifiers, e.g. XT60.
X times higher current transfer and much lower contact resistance under load, even after countless mating cycles. Available in 2- and 3-pin versions, screw-in for housings, also lockable, for larger cable cross-sections, reverse polarity protected, and inexpensive.
Versions with screw terminals for the cables would also be possible.

I've been using this type of connector for a long time, for DC, AC, and even higher voltages. I've also converted several PA5 (II) connectors with the XT30 housing version to replace these ridiculous connectors.

 

[EJ3]

It would be nice if @TOPPING could get rid of all these toy connectors and use something tried and tested for amplifiers, e.g. XT60.
X times higher current transfer and much lower contact resistance under load, even after countless mating cycles. Available in 2- and 3-pin versions, screw-in for housings, also lockable, for larger cable cross-sections, reverse polarity protected, and inexpensive.
Versions with screw terminals for the cables would also be possible.

I've been using this type of connector for a long time, for DC, AC, and even higher voltages. I've also converted several PA5 (II) connectors with the XT30 housing version to replace these ridiculous connectors.

It is most certainly a reason to not use topping for those (like me) that believe in proper connectors & no longer wanting to make things better by having to DYI them.
Of course, it's part of their pricing strategy.
Part of my "paying for things" strategy is to buy durable things (that I don't need to futz with right off the bat).
It saves me from aggravation, which helps me keep my health (and sanity) intact.

 

[Roland68]

It is most certainly a reason to not use topping for those (like me) that believe in proper connectors & no longer wanting to make things better by having to DYI them.
Of course, it's part of their pricing strategy.
Part of my "paying for things" strategy is to buy durable things (that I don't need to futz with right off the bat).
It saves me from aggravation, which helps me keep my health (and sanity) intact.

You meant Topping and (almost) all other manufacturers/amplifiers with external power supplies, right?
Because the problem actually has nothing to do with Topping.

The very common 5.5mm DC connectors with 2.1/2.5mm internals are certainly no better.
Unfortunately, the cheapest concept has once again prevailed in many device areas.

Topping's idea with the GX connectors wasn't that bad, especially because the screw connection prevents the connector from slipping out during operation, unlike the usual 5.5mm DC connectors.
With GX connectors with 4 or 6 pins that could be connected in parallel (2 x 2 or 2 x 3), the contact resistance would also be lower, just like with larger GX connectors.

As we can see, this works perfectly for tens of millions of devices, or more, with cheap 5.5mm DC connectors, even at high power levels, it just doesn't meet my personal quality standards.

 

[EJ3]

You meant Topping and (almost) all other manufacturers/amplifiers with external power supplies, right?
Because the problem actually has nothing to do with Topping.

The very common 5.5mm DC connectors with 2.1/2.5mm internals are certainly no better.
Unfortunately, the cheapest concept has once again prevailed in many device areas.

Topping's idea with the GX connectors wasn't that bad, especially because the screw connection prevents the connector from slipping out during operation, unlike the usual 5.5mm DC connectors.
With GX connectors with 4 or 6 pins that could be connected in parallel (2 x 2 or 2 x 3), the contact resistance would also be lower, just like with larger GX connectors.

As we can see, this works perfectly for tens of millions of devices, or more, with cheap 5.5mm DC connectors, even at high power levels, it just doesn't meet my personal quality standards.

I have no amps with external power supplies.
Maybe it's just me, but it's another item to figure out where to fit it in aesthetically. So: I just don't.
But I am also talking quality in general, connections and otherwise.

 

[Roland68]

I have no amps with external power supplies.
Maybe it's just me, but it's another item to figure out where to fit it in aesthetically. So: I just don't.
But I am also talking quality in general, connections and otherwise.

Quality has become a common problem these days.
I used to use so-called high-end amplifiers from renowned German manufacturers for a long time, all in the mid-four-figure range.
Every single one failed within 1-7 years, my speakers were damaged twice, and none of the amplifiers were Class D.

It's not much different among my friends and acquaintances. Many high-end brand-name amplifiers made in Europe or the USA have failed within 1-8 years, including some well-known Class D designs/modules. Of course, it's possible that over 50 people, independently of one another, have had bad luck, but how likely is that?
Funnily enough, many inexpensive and large old NAD amplifiers/power amplifiers and older Class A power amplifiers don't cause any problems with regular maintenance, and some have done so for 30 years.

Many of the failed amplifiers were replaced by Sabaj A30a, Topping PA5 (II), PA7, LA90(D), and more recently, B100 and B200.
The only failures so far have been the old PA5s with the potting compound issue. However, this had less to do with quality than with the unnecessary use of the potting compound without the necessary know-how. After removing the potting compound and cleaning the circuit boards, the old PA5s have been running without problems ever since; we now have over 15 of them.

In general, TPA3251/3255-based amplifiers have proven to be very robust and fail-safe, even very inexpensive ones like the Aiyima A07, Fosi V3 Stereo, or the €15-25 boards from AliExpress.

 

[Earwax]

It is most certainly a reason to not use topping for those (like me) that believe in proper connectors & no longer wanting to make things better by having to DYI them.
Of course, it's part of their pricing strategy.
Part of my "paying for things" strategy is to buy durable things (that I don't need to futz with right off the bat).
It saves me from aggravation, which helps me keep my health (and sanity) intact.

Sounds something like the competition would say, an angry stern shot down about such a minor thing hoping to sway people away with a simplistic rant. Just pointing out how it sounds I`m not accusing someone I`ve never had a conversation with.

All quick connects can get bent period. Most of us have seen bent AC wall socket plugs and had to bend back so lets keep this intelligent.

It`s not a DEAL breaker $$$

 

[EJ3]

Sounds something like the competition would say, an angry stern shot down about such a minor thing hoping to sway people away with a simplistic rant. Just pointing out how it sounds I`m not accusing someone I`ve never had a conversation with.

All quick connects can get bent period. Most of us have seen bent AC wall socket plugs and had to bend back so lets keep this intelligent.

It`s not a DEAL breaker $$$

Never heard a dealer say anything like that about anything. & if they did, in the manner you described, well, I wouldn't deal with them.
I just do not like things that prove to be fragile, as my gear rotates, changes systems and moves from my home to my mother's home and sometimes to my home out in the country at least a time or 2 a year. And, while I like to work on things, I do not like HAVING a NEED to work on them because they break.
Of course, anything can break, particularly when it is mishandled.
But pulling connectors on & off is fairly normal usage (in my opinion) and they should be quite durable. Like wall plugs (as you mention, they can be bent by mishandling, accidently stepping on them, etc. But that is also an unusual case & it is NOT normal use).
I'll gladly pay more for proper (in my mind) connectors.
Just as I gladly pay more for durable car parts instead of buying the cheapest stuff that will just get me through for a while.
Some people are just quality freaks (describing myself):
my tools need to function as intended but also FEEL GOOD to me while I'm using them. (unless it is a tool that I expect to never use again).
If a tool has a rough finish, I'm paying more for a better feeling tool (unless of course, it is otherwise LESS useful).
An example: my in the home small tool box for tools to repair smaller things (yep, my boxes to hold my tools [I'm peculiar & I admit that I know that]):

And bed end table storage of things carried or worn on a regular basis:

So: perhaps a bit overboard but that is what I like. No one else has to like it, as I do not care whether they do or don't.
Probably a large part of why I was single for 48 years.
But now I've been married for 20 years.
Because I found someone that I can put up with & they can apparently can also put up with me.

 

[jwr159]

This is a long thread. From what I have read, I would very much like to try a pair of the b100 amps. The problem is I'm not sure if they will work in my application.

The plan would be to use them solely to drive the mid-panels of my Eminent Tech 8bs. I use a processor to implement active crossovers.

The mid panel of the 8bs has a stable rating of 11 ohms across and the frequency spectrum and the speakers are around 84 dB efficient.

On the positive side, there should be no impedance drops which may cause clipping or the auto-protection to kick in.

But at 11 ohms, what is the effective wattage of the b100? If 48 watts at 8 ohms, my guess is maybe 30-35 watts at 11 ohms. Am understanding things correctly?

Assuming my understanding is correct, I am doubtful these little mono blocks will have enough juice to properly drive the panels.

Any feedback from others who understand what is actually happening is appreciated.

 

[staticV3]

But at 11 ohms, what is the effective wattage of the b100? If 48 watts at 8 ohms, my guess is maybe 30-35 watts at 11 ohms. Am understanding things correctly?

At 11Ω, the B100 will most definitely be voltage limited.

Topping spec the B100's maximum output voltage at 66Vpp which is 23.3Vrms.

23.3Vrms^2/11Ω=49.3W per channel.