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Topping A50s Headphone Amplifier Review

raif71

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After rave reviews and exceptional measurements, I bought A50s only to be disappointed! It is not transparent. It changes sound. It makes it smoother, taking the music out of it leaving behind only sound!
OK lot of subjective terms on Objective platform but would like to understand if any graph/measurements can explain it or my ears deceived me to dump the amp (Grudge .. for buying a non satisfactory amp despite stellar measurements)?
The seemingly big difference, can be observed by first directly listening from the dac using IEM (or easy to drive HP like 598) and then hearing through A50s. Hope this way measurements can bring out the amount of delta for amps, if any?
I suppose people here would be forgiving if the measurements are spot on even if the gears add colors to the sound but then that could only be your ears that are hearing it.
 

Vijay_kumar74

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After rave reviews and exceptional measurements, I bought A50s only to be disappointed! It is not transparent. It changes sound. It makes it smoother, taking the music out of it leaving behind only sound!
OK lot of subjective terms on Objective platform but would like to understand if any graph/measurements can explain it or my ears deceived me to dump the amp (Grudge .. for buying a non satisfactory amp despite stellar measurements)?
The seemingly big difference, can be observed by first directly listening from the dac using IEM (or easy to drive HP like 598) and then hearing through A50s. Hope this way measurements can bring out the amount of delta for amps, if any?
Need to update this thread. A50s is turning out real good now. The culprits came out to be my two (3.5 mm to RCA) cables (!). Though even this cable reason may not go down well in this forum but have felt cables do make quite difference.
Anyway, so my two cables were good quality but seems were not "audio good" quality! Changed them to audio grade quality cables and A50s is sounding a lot lot better. Though it still does not sound transparent but still lot better now .. so much better that am thinking if I should go for A90 for XLR balanced in?
With "non audio grade: cable, the music sounded hollow, as if passed through a hollow pipe, and also with sharpness in vocals rounded off .. making them smoother.
Happy that my money didn't go waste! :)
 

eboleyn

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Would the a50s drive the Hifiman HE6se V2 to its fullest potential?

I used my A50s to drive a Hifiman HE6se (not V2, but should be very similar) during a headphone shootout maybe 6 months ago, and the parties involved thought there was plenty of power. We did use the balanced output, and it sounded great, though obviously YMMV.

Personally my main go-to for the A50s is for balanced driving my Shure SE-846 IEMs, for which the combination is phenomenal.
 

Jamesj562

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I used my A50s to drive a Hifiman HE6se (not V2, but should be very similar) during a headphone shootout maybe 6 months ago, and the parties involved thought there was plenty of power. We did use the balanced output, and it sounded great, though obviously YMMV.

Personally my main go-to for the A50s is for balanced driving my Shure SE-846 IEMs, for which the combination is phenomenal.
Thank you at this point I’m pretty settled on the a50s

were you feeding it with a 2V DAC?
 

eboleyn

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Thank you at this point I’m pretty settled on the a50s

were you feeding it with a 2V DAC?

I was feeding it with a Schiit Modius and lately with a Topping D30 Pro. Both can output 2V IIRC correctly, and sound equally great to my ears for less sensitive headphone use.

Note that in the HE-6se review, it rated the headphone output at 94 dbSPL at 1.37V, which is at ~30 mW. The max output voltage of the amp is ~2V + 6db == ~8V, so for the sake of argument call it ~100db @ ~120mW max. I'm a quiet listener so I never even get close to 100db on peaks, even playing uncomfortably loud for me. The other listeners thought it was fine, but I thought I'd do the computation to make sure you went in with eyes open.

You can see why people want to use speaker amps for this headphone though if they want to rock out at super volume.

As a more specific contrast, the A30 Pro has 14db gain max, plus 6db if you use XLR inputs with a typical DAC which outputs 2x the voltage/6db gain into XLR, so ~2V + 20db total, i.e. ~114db @ ~2.5W max for your peaks, so you could play an average of 94 db or so and have full headroom (which is supposed to be ~20db), which is crazy crazy loud.

On the quieter side of things, for the Shure SE-846 IEMs I use, to keep the volume reasonable, I have to turn down the analog volume knob on the A50s close enough to the bottom to start hitting the uneven balance part of the pot and turn down the digital volume control on the D30 Pro. I try to avoid losing digital accuracy, but I got the D30 Pro for the amazing range it has and it certainly sounds great subjectively. ;)
 

eboleyn

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I was feeding it with a Schiit Modius and lately with a Topping D30 Pro. Both can output 2V IIRC correctly, and sound equally great to my ears for less sensitive headphone use.

Note that in the HE-6se review, it rated the headphone output at 94 dbSPL at 1.37V, which is at ~30 mW. The max output voltage of the amp is ~2V + 6db == ~8V, so for the sake of argument call it ~100db @ ~120mW max. I'm a quiet listener so I never even get close to 100db on peaks, even playing uncomfortably loud for me. The other listeners thought it was fine, but I thought I'd do the computation to make sure you went in with eyes open.

You can see why people want to use speaker amps for this headphone though if they want to rock out at super volume.

As a more specific contrast, the A30 Pro has 14db gain max, plus 6db if you use XLR inputs with a typical DAC which outputs 2x the voltage/6db gain into XLR, so ~2V + 20db total, i.e. ~114db @ ~2.5W max for your peaks, so you could play an average of 94 db or so and have full headroom (which is supposed to be ~20db), which is crazy crazy loud.

On the quieter side of things, for the Shure SE-846 IEMs I use, to keep the volume reasonable, I have to turn down the analog volume knob on the A50s close enough to the bottom to start hitting the uneven balance part of the pot and turn down the digital volume control on the D30 Pro. I try to avoid losing digital accuracy, but I got the D30 Pro for the amazing range it has and it certainly sounds great subjectively. ;)

Hmm, I just rechecked the numbers, and I think I was limiting a bit on the maximum output of the A50s for the HE-6se and comparatively overshot for the A30 Pro. Shows what I get for going too fast estimating!

Correcting the A50s formulas, it's ~2V + 6db = ~4V. Then, ~4V @ 64 ohm = ~250mW. Plus, the balanced amp output does get you a 2x voltage increase, which bumps it up to ~1 Watt. So, ~103db max for unbalanced peaks, or up to ~109db balanced peaks.

Similarly correcting the A30 Pro, you'd get the equivalent of the ~103db + 14db, or ~119db, but you're limited to about 5W out of that amp, so really ~117 db. Crazy loud indeed.

I.e. the A50s isn't as restricted as it appeared, and the A30 Pro is still a bit better, but not quite as MUCH better @ ~109 vs ~117 max respectively. :rolleyes:

EDIT: Oh, and I still forgot to mention that if you have a DAC capable of outputting higher than 2V on the RCA outputs, the A50s will apparently work with you and jack up its own outputs even higher too, so I'd bet with a 4V RCA output from your DAC, you could max out the amp at its ~2.5W max on the HE-6se, or translating that, at ~113db peaks!
 
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JanesJr1

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I've been quite impressed with the measurements of both the A50s and the A90, and I have been debating if I'm getting the first now, or saving to buy the second eventually. At the moment, I am using an Atom headphone amp (great amp, but its lightness makes it wander around my desktop) serving as both an headphone amp for my old LCD-2 and HD600, new Aeon Flow Closed RT and Hifiman Sundara, and serving as a pre-amp for the Koss ESP/95x (so I don't have to play with the energizer volume control).

I'm feeding it with a Gamma2 DAC (a DIY design from AMB Labs), which I may upgrade eventually to a balanced DAC, and which is also connected to Presonus Eris E3.5 monitors.

My main worry is this: if I get a Balanced DAC and an A90, will there be a noticeable improvement over the A50s, or while I just not notice the difference? I have balanced headphone cables for most of my headphones, but I am not using them at the moment with the Atom. I am always using the Atom in low gain and have never had to switch to high gain, so I don't think higher power is all that required.
Inexpensive solution: Velcro strip under the Atom. If you stack the Atom DAC and Amp, also velcro between the units. Works for me, a couple of bucks.
 

Indrajit

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Does anyone here know the maximum (voltage output) via 2vrms rca input + balanced output on Topping A50s on high gain. I have a Sennheiser hd 650 and I think it requires much more voltage swing than current owing to its high impedance. I already have a Magni 3. But I don't know it's max voltage swing. I have also been looking into the Aune x7s. So either of these amps which has the max voltage swing will perhaps be ideal for my hd 650. So may I know the max voltage output via 2vrms + balanced output on high gain on Topping A50s
 

RHO

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Does anyone here know the maximum (voltage output) via 2vrms rca input + balanced output on Topping A50s on high gain. I have a Sennheiser hd 650 and I think it requires much more voltage swing than current owing to its high impedance. I already have a Magni 3. But I don't know it's max voltage swing. I have also been looking into the Aune x7s. So either of these amps which has the max voltage swing will perhaps be ideal for my hd 650. So may I know the max voltage output via 2vrms + balanced output on high gain on Topping A50s
I use this amp in the exact situation you will use it. I give it input from a Topping DX3 pro in DAC mode and drive a HD6XX (equal to a HD650) in SE mode. In low gain it's OK. In high gain it's plenty loud for me.
If you will drive it with the balanced output and in high gain, I think it will get loud enough for some good hearing damage.
 

Indrajit

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I use this amp in the exact situation you will use it. I give it input from a Topping DX3 pro in DAC mode and drive a HD6XX (equal to a HD650) in SE mode. In low gain it's OK. In high gain it's plenty loud for me.
If you will drive it with the balanced output and in high gain, I think it will get loud enough for some good hearing damage.

Yeah thanks. But any idea what it's voltage swing would be on balanced and high gain? I am confused between this and Aune X7s
 

RHO

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Yeah thanks. But any idea what it's voltage swing would be on balanced and high gain? I am confused between this and Aune X7s
No, no idea.
It's plenty loud. That's good enough for me.
I think the Aune will be a bit louder but has a noise penalty for that.
And since in my experience the A50s is already loud enough, I think the lower noise is preferable to the extra power.
 

Indrajit

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No, no idea.
It's plenty loud. That's good enough for me.
I think the Aune will be a bit louder but has a noise penalty for that.
And since in my experience the A50s is already loud enough, I think the lower noise is preferable to the extra power.

I don't think 'loudness' is tantamount to amplification. I understand that most amps will drive any headphone very loud to a degree of deafness or damage. But if I am not mistaken there is a difference between loudness and proper amplification. Without proper amplification there will be loudness, but vocals and instruments can be shouty, thin, peaky and bass muddy. With proper amplification, there is an overall maturity in sound which is not something which can only be conceived in terms of loudness
 

RHO

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I don't think 'loudness' is tantamount to amplification. I understand that most amps will drive any headphone very loud to a degree of deafness or damage. But if I am not mistaken there is a difference between loudness and proper amplification. Without proper amplification there will be loudness, but vocals and instruments can be shouty, thin, peaky and bass muddy. With proper amplification, there is an overall maturity in sound which is not something which can only be conceived in terms of loudness
That would show up in the measurements.
The measurements on the A50s show that it does hardly distort the input signal at all until driven into clipping. And it doesn't seem to clip with 2Vrms input. So it should sound the same at low volume as it does on high volume.
This does not guarantee that your headphones will not distort or compress at those volumes and start to sound very different.
 

Veri

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Toku

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I just wonder why A50s ($199.99) is cheaper than L50 ($229) even though A50s has balanced output and L50 II SE output. As far as I see from the amirm review (https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...opping-a50s-headphone-amplifier-review.16290/ and https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-l50-review-headphone-amp.26210/) A50s is not necessarily poorer in performance than L50.
The price also depends on the exchange rate and when the goods arrived in the country.
The selling price on Amazon in Japan is about US$190 for the A50s and about US$150 for the L50 at the current exchange rate. It's the complete opposite of your case.
The reason why the L50 is particularly cheap is that it continues to sell at the same price as before the Japanese yen crashed.
 
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