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topping a30/d30 pro stack vs a50s/d50s stack

TurtlePaul

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Sorry, I meant D50s instead of A50s.
A30pro + D50s - less power output from headphone out at max volume position.
A30pro + D30pro (or any other dac to connect with XLR) - more power output from headphone out at max volume.

Pluging in an XLR at 4V gives you 6 dB of gain vs a 2V single ended connection. Then the A50 adds another 6 dB of gain in high gain mode for a total of 12 dB of gain relative to 2V. The A30 starts at the 2V instead of the 4V but adds 14 dB of gain relative to that 2V. So at max volume, the A30 pro will be slightly louder.

edit: using the XLR input on the A30 gives more gain not more power. If it was balanced internally it would deliver more gain and more power. Gain is how loud it is. Power is how much energy can be delivered before the amp has distortion or hits the voltage rails.
 
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Wuzel

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Sorry, I meant D50s instead of A50s.
A30pro + D50s - less power output from headphone out at max volume position.
A30pro + D30pro (or any other dac to connect with XLR) - more power output (and louder) from headphone out at max volume.

I don't have a D50s - but some Dacs can fire up in 'pre-amp' Mode more then 2V at 0dbfs / SE.
U can try that, but be aware - in some circumstances the pre-amp mode can affect audio quality ;) .

In my opinion most Head-Amps these days needs a higher gain mode for SE inputs.
Or better input sensitivity - a matter of view sight here.
 

Wuzel

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Louder at max volume but no more power output. Those things are not the same.

Yeah, but at the 2V RCA in - with most headphones (impandence) u dont get the maximum load out to the cans - in other words it clips never - high gain + volume complete to the right ;)
 

usern

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I have D30pro, A30pro and DT 880 pro 600 ohm. With RCA inputs to A30pro, the DT 880 pro sounds clean and plenty loud at max volume. With XLR inputs to A30pro the heapdhones can go louder, but will distort with some bass heavy tracks. I think it's headphone distortion, not amp, because these Beyers do not have good bass distortion. In any case if the question is whether to replace D50s with D30pro, then only do it if you don't get enough volume with D50s.

As side note I have Harman target applied + more bass boost EQ with DT 880.
 
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whirlwynds

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ok wow. what a discussion. so let's muddy the waters even more.
compare the following stacks:
1- a50s/d50s
2- a30 pro/d50s
3- a30 pro/d30 pro
4- a90/d90

just to make sure i'm understanding correctly. I think I'm hearing that 1,2,3 are very similar.
1 has SE in and BAL out
2 SE in SE out, but more power vs 1
3 Bal in SE out, more gain, more power vs 1
4 bal in bal out, more gain more power
 

Wuzel

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ok wow. what a discussion. so let's muddy the waters even more.
compare the following stacks:
1- a50s/d50s
2- a30 pro/d50s
3- a30 pro/d30 pro
4- a90/d90

just to make sure i'm understanding correctly. I think I'm hearing that 1,2,3 are very similar.
1 has SE in and BAL out
2 SE in SE out, but more power vs 1
3 Bal in SE out, more gain, more power vs 1
4 bal in bal out, more gain more power

? i don't understand what u mean with that.

The SE/BAL (ok, balanced is the wrong word for that...) output to the cans is complete irrelevant.
It's a matter of the Amp Design and how it works
(in the elder days way important for mobile amps, because the lack of good and cheap DC/DC Step-up Circuits/Chips for the rails).
When you got an amp who only bring out the best performance with 'Balanced' (i hate that here) Can connection - so spend money in the cable for that. But that is all....
In my opinion i prefer a good Se Output - works in any way and no need for cables/wiring on the cans...
Or better words: '*Bal*' cost more bucks for the end user - that's all :)

Input is another thing.
In these Topic and Forum is enough stuff to get in there.
 
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whirlwynds

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What I am saying is the a50s and the a30pro are not fully balanced amps. a50s has single ended in and 4.4mm bal out and SE 6.35mm.

a30 pro has xlr bal in and xlr/4.4/6.35mm SE out.

only a90 has bal in and bal out
 

aandres_gm

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What I am saying is the a50s and the a30pro are not fully balanced amps. a50s has single ended in and 4.4mm bal out and SE 6.35mm.

a30 pro has xlr bal in and xlr/4.4/6.35mm SE out.

only a90 has bal in and bal out
Yes. But, depending on your system, balanced input may be less important than you think. And balanced out is pretty much irrelevant when amps like the A30 Pro exist.
 
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whirlwynds

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Yes. But, depending on your system, balanced input may be less important than you think. And balanced out is pretty much irrelevant when amps like the A30 Pro exist.
Because of the power, right? So the only benefit to balanced in this case is emf interference or ground issues.
 

eboleyn

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What I am saying is the a50s and the a30pro are not fully balanced amps. a50s has single ended in and 4.4mm bal out and SE 6.35mm.

a30 pro has xlr bal in and xlr/4.4/6.35mm SE out.

only a90 has bal in and bal out
Your comments above presume that a balanced amp requires a balanced input. It depends entirely on the electrical implementation of the balanced amp, and the only ones that have the property of requiring balanced signals are ones that keep the separate legs of the signal and amplify them completely independently.

In general balanced signals are often converted to a single wire internally or otherwise run through a converter which rebalances the signal, so it doesn't actually matter. This is common in speaker amps, for example.

Checking the specs, you can see the A50s indeed has a truly balanced amp internally. You'd *never* get that kind of insanely low crosstalk without it.
 
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