Topping’s new amplifier - Mini300

[Roland68]

do people look for this from a power amp? I would think those the jobs of a pre-amp.

This is an integrated amplifier, not a power amplifier. Apart from a few audiophile exceptions or extremely purist devices, integrated amplifiers without a remote control haven't been marketable since the 1990s.

Preamplifiers are, and always have been, a niche product with a very small single-digit percentage (or less) of the amplifier market and were only of interest to people with mono or stereo power amplifiers, which were very expensive until a few years ago.

In the home hi-fi sector, integrated amplifiers with tone controls, a phono input, and a remote control are (and were) the main products sold. For manufacturers such as Technics, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo, NAD, etc., these were, alongside source components, their main products with huge sales figures across all price ranges.

Only in the last few years, and even then only in certain segments, have these smaller amplifiers become more widespread.
Affordable mono or stereo power amplifiers have also only been available for a relatively short time; before that, they were much more expensive.

 

[masterhw]

This is an integrated amplifier, not a power amplifier. Apart from a few audiophile exceptions or extremely purist devices, integrated amplifiers without a remote control haven't been marketable since the 1990s.

Preamplifiers are, and always have been, a niche product with a very small single-digit percentage (or less) of the amplifier market and were only of interest to people with mono or stereo power amplifiers, which were very expensive until a few years ago.

In the home hi-fi sector, integrated amplifiers with tone controls, a phono input, and a remote control are (and were) the main products sold. For manufacturers such as Technics, Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo, NAD, etc., these were, alongside source components, their main products with huge sales figures across all price ranges.

Only in the last few years, and even then only in certain segments, have these smaller amplifiers become more widespread.
Affordable mono or stereo power amplifiers have also only been available for a relatively short time; before that, they were much more expensive.

I appreciate the well thought out reply, and perhaps some legacy is being lost on me, but I’m really not sure that this is an integrated amp. the marketing materials refer to it as a power amp, and I’d say almost by definition it lacking meaningful usability for volume and input selection makes it a power amp. It has no digital inputs so for general use will require a DAC somewhere upstream, which is probably a more appropriate place for these kinds of controls.

WiiM, Fosi, and plenty more all make amps in this class that are just a large potentiometer short of being a pure power amp. Definitely closer to being a power amp with a volume knob than an integrated amp lacking a bunch of other stuff.

 

[Roland68]

I appreciate the well thought out reply, and perhaps some legacy is being lost on me, but I’m really not sure that this is an integrated amp. the marketing materials refer to it as a power amp, and I’d say almost by definition it lacking meaningful usability for volume and input selection makes it a power amp. It has no digital inputs so for general use will require a DAC somewhere upstream, which is probably a more appropriate place for these kinds of controls.

WiiM, Fosi, and plenty more all make amps in this class that are just a large potentiometer short of being a pure power amp. Definitely closer to being a power amp with a volume knob than an integrated amp lacking a bunch of other stuff.

Preamplifiers, power amplifiers, and integrated amplifiers existed long before DACs. That's completely irrelevant, just like the lack of understanding of proper terminology among many newer manufacturers.

The definition of a preamplifier has always been (as the name suggests) the (pre-)amplification of the small signal from the source devices to drive the power amplifiers, and volume control. Everything else is a matter of convenience and features.
Power amplifiers don't have volume control, but sometimes adjustable inputs (gain).
Both in one housing make an integrated amplifier.

Minimalist devices have always existed, including integrated amplifiers with only one, two, or three inputs and volume control, as well as preamplifiers consisting of nothing more than a stereo input and output, a potentiometer, a dual op-amp, a few passive components, and a power supply. These are precisely the components you'll find in a Topping PA5 II, Mini 300, and Fosi V3 Stereo, before the actual amplifier chip.

 

[Jarrett]

I welcome the price reduction, but if it's a cheaped-out PA5 II, there's no need.

 

[Roland68]

I welcome the price reduction, but if it's a cheaped-out PA5 II, there's no need.

In the market, that makes perfect sense.
The Fosi V3 Stereo and a few other TPA3255s cost only half as much as the PA5 II, and then there are the newer 3E Audio A5/A5se as competing products.
It's not a bad move for Topping to position themselves in the market with a more affordable device.

 

[Tell]

Yeah I'm seriously considering buying this one. I'm generally a really cheap guy trying to so as much as possible for as little as possible, so I've been thinking about swapping my current TPA3118 based amp with a Douk A5, but for just a few more 10s of euros for this and I'm getting something that will be transparent foreever and ever.
I dont need it though, my current one works okay for how I generally use it atm, but would be nice with something new once in a while

 

[Roland68]

If the spec sheet is accurate and this really is Class D, then despite similarities it should be a completely different amplifier under the hood.

Wouldn’t be surprised if this were a TI TPA3251.

PA5, II and II Plus all had the TPA3251 installed.

I said in group: I don't understand mini300 looks live Pa5Ⅱ and measures like Pa5Ⅱ
And then he said "Is it possible that the mini300 is the PA5II Plus?"
I think he means it.

I think he's just playing with you.
The PA5 II and Plus are absolutely identical devices, except for the power supply.

Old PA5 -> 38V 4A power supply
PA5 II Plus -> 38V 4A power supply
PA5 II -> 38V 3.2A power supply
PA5 II & 38V 4A power supply = PA5 II Plus

 

[zhangqwen]

The sound is a bit different from pa5ii, feels slightly better.

 

[BeeKay]

The sound is a bit different from pa5ii, feels slightly better.

Perfectly chosen website for this. Congrats

 

[Aryzon]

I wonder if this could be usable for electrostatic headphones with a transformer box. 98W in such a small box looks too good to be true. Especially considering we just got the B100 which is about the same size but with less output and in mono.

 

[Jiraya369]

Yeah I'm seriously considering buying this one. I'm generally a really cheap guy trying to so as much as possible for as little as possible, so I've been thinking about swapping my current TPA3118 based amp with a Douk A5, but for just a few more 10s of euros for this and I'm getting something that will be transparent foreever and ever.
I dont need it though, my current one works okay for how I generally use it atm, but would be nice with something new once in a while

if you dont need too much power and have a similarly competent dac, this makes sense.

But if you're using some old dac then i don't think it's worth it. If you however get a Jcally JM20 Max and use some 3.5 to stereo converters or something and turn it into a dac for speakers, and if it works) you get an essentially completely transparent source setup limited only by power and your speakers

 

[BeeKay]

Topping leaked the E50II on the Mini300 product page

 

[Jarrett]

In the market, that makes perfect sense.
The Fosi V3 Stereo and a few other TPA3255s cost only half as much as the PA5 II, and then there are the newer 3E Audio A5/A5se as competing products.
It's not a bad move for Topping to position themselves in the market with a more affordable device.

Wow, I checked the price of the A7, and it's down to $99 (CAD) on their Ali store. What the heck! That is their best model haha

 

[Tell]

if you dont need too much power and have a similarly competent dac, this makes sense.

But if you're using some old dac then i don't think it's worth it. If you however get a Jcally JM20 Max and use some 3.5 to stereo converters or something and turn it into a dac for speakers, and if it works) you get an essentially completely transparent source setup limited only by power and your speakers

I'm using a MiniDSP 2x4HD as a DSP/DAC, so it definitely outperforms my current TPA3118 amplifier.

 

[Roland68]

Where are you seeing comparative measurements taken with the same test setup? Toppings specs seem almost identical - the only difference being 0.0003 vs 0.0004% THD+N.

I'm not convinced it is possible to determine the performance/quality/cost of the coils from looking at a photograph. Yes they are smaller - that is all we know. This might simply be an optimisation - if for example the PA5 coils are over dimensioned.

I took the diagrams from the Topping website and compared them at around 85-90 watts.

I'm quite familiar with the different types of coils and core materials. In the PA5 and II, Topping, like 3E Audio in the A5/7, used very high-quality, low-impedance coils wound with flat copper strips.
What I see in the picture is the smaller, cheaper, and more common design for such amplifiers, wound with standard round enameled copper wire, a lower copper content, and a thicker core.
Since the chassis dimensions are known, the size can be estimated fairly accurately.
But I don't see any problem with that, especially considering the measured values. The amplifier costs €60 less, making it almost 30% cheaper, so cost savings are legitimate, especially with such good measured values.
And I agree with you that Topping optimized the components there without compromising performance.

 

[SlowJim]

Wow, I checked the price of the A7, and it's down to $99 (CAD) on their Ali store. What the heck! That is their best model haha

Are you sure? It's like 4x that price in the US. Maybe you are just looking at the power adapter?

 

[Roland68]

Wow, I checked the price of the A7, and it's down to $99 (CAD) on their Ali store. What the heck! That is their best model haha

Are you sure? It's like 4x that price in the US. Maybe you are just looking at the power adapter?

Yes, Aliexpress really handles this poorly, where you get a preview of an item and a much lower price is displayed for an accessory or spare part.
The A7 costs at least 3-4 times as much, or more.

For that price, I would have ordered 10 and given them away as Christmas presents.

 

[Jarrett]

My mistake, I never shop there. It still took me several minutes to figure out (just a bunch of photos directly below the price)

 

[whazzup]

So no mention of whether it has PFFB, or load dependency issues?

 

[antcollinet]

So no mention of whether it has PFFB, or load dependency issues?

I don't think any of toppings amps have had load dependency. the PA5 - on which this is based - certainly didn't. I'd be very surprised indeed if this one does.


EDIT : Toppings published measurements show no load dependency.

TOPPING Mini 300 Power Amplifier

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