"Too many speakers" in a small room

[Kain]

I've read that having "too many speakers" in a small room can cause audio related issues even if they are correctly positioned in the room. Is this true? If I recall correctly, it was something along the lines of "too much sound energy" for the room to handle or something.

For example, would a correctly placed 9.4.6 setup in a 12 x 10 x 9.5 ft room cause "issues" even if the angles and other attributes are done to recommendations?

 

[MaxwellsEq]

It's not clear what you are doing. Is this a surround sound system, such as 5.1 where each speaker is driven by a different signal, or a stereo system where there are only two separate channels?
It's generally accepted that you should have the same number of speakers as channels, so if you are talking about a stereo system, you should have no more than two speakers (three if you have a subwoofer).

 

[diablo]

I have a 9.2.4 surround system in a room 14x12x9. Sounds absolutely fine. Only real problem is getting two or more subwoofers to play nicely with each other, though that's the same in any size room.

 

[Kain]

It's not clear what you are doing. Is this a surround sound system, such as 5.1 where each speaker is driven by a different signal, or a stereo system where there are only two separate channels?
It's generally accepted that you should have the same number of speakers as channels, so if you are talking about a stereo system, you should have no more than two speakers (three if you have a subwoofer).

From my OP:

For example, would a correctly placed 9.4.6 setup in a 12 x 10 x 9.5 ft room cause "issues" even if the angles and other attributes are done to recommendations?

 

[JSmith]

I've read that having "too many speakers" in a small room can cause audio related issues even if they are correctly positioned in the room.

Running 4 speakers for 2 channel can be problematic... assuming that is what you mean.


JSmith

 

[abdo123]

It depends on the speaker, a point source like KEF LS50 you can pretty much use it as a headphone and it would be okay. a tower speaker with like 4 to 5 drivers would need two to three meters to sum up properly in the far field.

 

[Kain]

In an attempt to make things as clear as possible...

Room: 12 x 10 x 9.5 ft
LCR: 3 x JBL 708i
Front wides: 2 x JBL 705i
Side surrounds: 2 x JBL 705i
Rear surrounds: 2 x JBL 705i
Overheads: 6 x JBL 705i
Subwoofers: 4 x JBL SSW-2

Atmos layout: 9.4.6 with a single speaker per channel.

 

[abdo123]

If you're sitting more than 3 times the largest dimension (of the speaker) away from the speaker you're fine.

 

[Kain]

If you're sitting more than 3 times the largest dimension (of the speaker) away from the speaker you're fine.

So it doesn't matter how many speakers are in the room but just how far you're sitting from them? Are those claims of "too much sound energy" in small room rooms from having too many speakers false?

 

[abdo123]

So it doesn't matter how many speakers are in the room but just how far you're sitting from them?

well if the speakers are too big and the room is too small to satisfy the condition i just gave then it does matter.

Personally i would either install the speakers in-wall or put them 1.5 meters away from every boundary and the listener would be at least 3 times the largest dimension of the speaker away from the speaker.

 

[Sancus]

I don't think there will necessarily be problems, but I also don't see any point to 6 overheads in such a small room. The sound will overlap too much for there to be any audible benefit from the extras.

I'm also skeptical of front wides in that situation, they're supposed to fill in the gap between fronts and side surrounds but there is not much of a gap in such a small room. Those speakers are going to be very close to the listening position if following Dolby specs.

 

[Duke]

If you're sitting more than 3 times the largest dimension (of the speaker) away from the speaker you're fine.

What is the reasoning behind this, if you don't mind?

 

[abdo123]

What is the reasoning behind this, if you don't mind?

That’s what academically is considered the far field. And the distance at which most baffle effects are concluded and most designs are tuned for.

 

[Duke]

That’s what academically is considered the far field. And the distance at which most baffle effects are concluded and most designs are tuned for.

Thanks for replying.

Just my opinion, but when considering minimum listening distance I would suggest going case-by-case and taking into account interdriver spacings, crossover points, and radiation patterns (with baffle width being a contributor thereto), along with room acoustics.

 

[Kain]

I don't think there will necessarily be problems, but I also don't see any point to 6 overheads in such a small room. The sound will overlap too much for there to be any audible benefit from the extras.

I'm also skeptical of front wides in that situation, they're supposed to fill in the gap between fronts and side surrounds but there is not much of a gap in such a small room. Those speakers are going to be very close to the listening position if following Dolby specs.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/why-small-rooms-need-wides.3223742/

 

[gnarly]

Thanks for replying.

Just my opinion, but when considering minimum listening distance I would suggest going case-by-case and taking into account interdriver spacings, crossover points, and radiation patterns (with baffle width being a contributor thereto), along with room acoustics.

I know for measurements, a minimum distance of 3X the longest speaker dimension has been a longstanding rule-of-thumb, meant for (quasi)-anechoic measurements.

I think that the 3X longest speaker dimension, is probably more about having an easy to remember r.o.t. that is likely to accommodate driver to driver spacing, and the distance it takes for the drivers summations to settle down in phase, than anything else.

On another forum, somebody recently posted a pretty good article on near-field vs far-field https://community.sw.siemens.com/s/...ee-versus-diffuse-field-near-versus-far-field
A Klippel interview Erin did, digs deeper into it....

What's really interesting to me, is I get that speaker measurements need to be far-field for any kind of summed accuracy.
But it seems a lot of folks are quire happy listening closer than that.???? Dunno what to think...

(Imo it's a shame near-field and far-field get confused with listening inside or outside the critical distance where direct sound equals reflected sound......because i think it makes understanding how speakers themselves work more difficult.)

 

[Duke]

What's really interesting to me, is I get that speaker measurements need to be far-field for any kind of summed accuracy.
But it seems a lot of folks are quire happy listening closer than that.???? Dunno what to think...

Maybe that particular rule-of-thumb is not a strong predictor of preference.

 

[ElectricKoolAid]

When it comes to true object based surround sound, the more speakers the better.

 

[krabapple]

If you're sitting more than 3 times the largest dimension (of the speaker) away from the speaker you're fine.

? What does this even mean? The literal size of the speaker?

One 'rule of thumb' I know of is to place the MLP about 2/3-3/4 of the distance from the front wall (aka 1/3-1/4 from the rear wall). This is based on room mode characteristics of 'typical' rectangular rooms. AFAIK it has naught to do with the 'dimension of the speaker'.

Placement of the front speakers themselves is usually recommended to be an equilateral triangle (though certainly not absolutely required IME) , mindful of boundary effects on bass (though these can be either exploited, or can be corrected by room EQ) , and rear speakers of a 5.1 system placed circa 110 degree angle wrt MLP. These are only guidelines. Actual room measurements and use of e.g. REW would of course be even better.

Having an elaborate surround setup can work fine as long as you have an AVR that does good distance compensation and room (i.e. speaker) EQ, and good subwoofer placement. And the more point sources you have firing direct at you, the more the room is masked.

I like to use a set of audio test signals that locate left, center, right, half left, half right, side midpoints, left rear, right rear, right center etc, to fine tune position and aiming of speakers for accurate imaging.

 

[abdo123]

Thanks for replying.

Just my opinion, but when considering minimum listening distance I would suggest going case-by-case and taking into account interdriver spacings, crossover points, and radiation patterns (with baffle width being a contributor thereto), along with room acoustics.

These are all encompassed in one way or another with Speaker size.