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Tonewinner AD7300 7-channel amp

gaussianmist

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Many people on this forum have expressed interest in the Tonewinner 7300, 7-channel amplifier that is only available from one distributor in N. America, SummitHIFI. This amp is considered by some to be very handsome since it has a huge VU meter (originally spelled UV on the earlier versions) that spans almost the width of the unit. (Although I don't quite understand the utility of 1 VU meter on a 7 channel amp.)

Of course I am interested (sucker for pretty faces) but I don't like to buy a pig in a poke. So I wrote to Amir (not our Amir) at SummitHiFi and asked whether he would send this amp to ASR for review. I never received an answer, so I called and asked whether he would do it and he said that it already had been tested by Tonewinner and the acid test is to listen. When I said I would need a disinterested third-party to measure the amp, he gave me no assurance he would do so.

O.K., now the meat of this rant: It's been opined by many that Tonewinner makes Emotiva products. There is a current Emotiva amp that spec-wise is the twin of the Tonewinner. It is the Emotiva XPA-7 Gen3 7-channel amp. (From their current line up.) This unit (like the Tonewinner) has a switch-mode power supply and rail-modulating class-H operation. Spec by spec these amps are virtually identical. Since SummitHiFi won't send the Tonewinner to ASR why can't we use the review of the Emotiva as a proxy? It just so happens that there is such a review performed by John Atkinson of Stereophile on the 2-channel version. (This is a modular amp.) And the URL is:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-xpa-gen3-two-channel-power-amplifier-measurements

It was not a stellar performer, evidencing high IM distortion and increasing THD with upper frequency.
 

Espiritiv

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Has anyobe just bought this amp to test? I Hear good things on Youtube but none are independently verified. Thinking of Tonewinner or a hypex based amps like Monoprice or buckeye ( at higher cost) to run 3 circa 2001 M&k s150 LCR + MP150 surrounds, and 4 of m&ks newer ic95 Atmos speakers.. suggestions?
 
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gaussianmist

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A little over a week ago I wrote to (our) Amir (as opposed to SummitHIFI's Amir) and asked whether he would want to test the Tonewinner and he said yes. So I emailed Summit and stated that I'd like to buy the TW but that it should be shipped to ASR for review. I further proposed that if the results were unsatisfactory then Summit would send an RMA to ASR for shipment back to Summit, and then credit my account. If ASR's results were satisfactory then I would keep the amp. (These seemed reasonable requests to me.) The bottom line is that I never received an answer from Summit. Draw your own inferences.
 

DonH56

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Does the amp have a no-questions-asked return policy? Asking for an RMA before taking delivery would sound to me like someone not really interested in the amplifier. If they really wanted an independent review, they could send it to Amir themselves instead of going through a customer. If they have orders to fill then I can understand them not responding to what seems like a no-sale request. Not saying it is the best outcome for anyone, but I can understand their position.

Isn't Tonewinner based in China? There may be a long path to reach a manager who would understand and have authority to act on the request, and they might have no idea who (our) Amir is and why they would bother to send an amp to him. SummitHiFi may have enough business they don't care, and/or are not willing to be on the hook for an amp they would have to resale as used or open-box.
 
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gaussianmist

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The context of the "RMA" was only if the results were unsatisfactory. But if Amir's review were satisfactory, I'd keep the amp. This is all in keeping with full disclosure. To suggest that this implies lack of interest on my part is belied by the efforts I've made in getting an unbiased review performed with the intent to purchase.
 

nathan

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Does the amp have a no-questions-asked return policy?
Yes, though there is a restocking fee and the buyer pays for (at least return) shipping from what one can infer from the SummitHiFi web site. Pretty normal stuff.

Doesn't look like anything prevents one from buying it, having it sent to Amir, and then if within the return window, deciding for ANY REASON to send it back.

(It's not a free exercise of course. One would be out the cost of shipping -- perhaps both directions -- and the restocking fee. I would not expect the vendor to re-emburse for those or even respond to requests that they agree to.)
 

Espiritiv

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Got the feeling that ASR will find some things that are not great about amplifier at 4 ohms since SummitHifi doesn't list all the performance specs. If I can't find a good review soon I will probably go class D from Monoprice, or Buckeye
 

delta76

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To be honest satisfactory/unsatisfactory is quite of a blur in this case. You could simply ask if you are unhappy with the amp, can you return it no question asked.
Most sellers do not care where you send a return item from, but the condition of it. if it's without user-inflicted damage and is with all original accessories/packing, they don't care where you sent it from (within the limit of returning label cost)
 

delta76

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Can you paraphrase this sentence for me? I don't know what it means.
in this forum we can agree what satisfactory/unsatisfactory based on the panther. however to the manufacturer it is difficult to establish what is what. When it is not clearly broken it is hard to argue ...
 
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gaussianmist

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in this forum we can agree what satisfactory/unsatisfactory based on the panther. however to the manufacturer it is difficult to establish what is what. When it is not clearly broken it is hard to argue ...
My reference to the "decapitated panther" earlier was meant to be sarcastic. Lighten up.
 

nathan

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To be honest satisfactory/unsatisfactory is quite of a blur in this case.
Truth. I've had gear that the manufacturer says was operating within spec so not eligible for warranty work, even when it clearly measured poorly versus other samples, itself at another time, or the marketing materials' claims. So now I just make sure there is a no fault no questions asked no justification necessary return policy that is acceptable to me (in terms of restocking fees, shipping fees, timeline) before buying something new -- or I buy used at a price point where I can turn around and sell it for at most a modest loss.
 

delta76

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My reference to the "decapitated panther" earlier was meant to be sarcastic. Lighten up.
I was not even referring to that. You can send them all the graph but that will be a complicated discussion. Simply ask them if they have no question return policy. Your life will be simpler
 

delta76

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Also the setup you are asking is quite complicated without context. For people here they already know who amir is and what he does, but don't overestimate people comprehension, especially non native English speaking people. It is quite likely they did not understand your request, and chose to ignore it.

You could have asked "I am ordering this for a friend, could he test it and return if he is not happy?". It is not lying and that would be much easier for them to understand and answer :)
 
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gaussianmist

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Amir (SummitHIFI) is in Toronto, Canada and speaks impeccable English ( I have spoken with him.) But I take your point. However, I don't think I'll get another bite at the apple.
Also the setup you are asking is quite complicated without context. For people here they already know who amir is and what he does, but don't overestimate people comprehension, especially non native English speaking people. It is quite likely they did not understand your request, and chose to ignore it.

You could have asked "I am ordering this for a friend, could he test it and return if he is not happy?". It is not lying and that would be much easier for them to understand and answer :)
 

nathan

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Also the setup you are asking is quite complicated without context. For people here they already know who amir is and what he does, but don't overestimate people comprehension, especially non native English speaking people. It is quite likely they did not understand your request, and chose to ignore it.

You could have asked "I am ordering this for a friend, could he test it and return if he is not happy?". It is not lying and that would be much easier for them to understand and answer :)
I don't understand the need to tell them anything in particular.

Why not just go to https://www.summithifi.com/collections/tonewinner-audio/products/ad-7300pa-amplifier and click buy it now, and enter @amirm's shipping address as the delivery address, and pay the price.

Done.

Then, if one doesn't like the test results: get an RMA number from summit, send a paid mailer to @amirm, and instead of @amirm shipping it to the person that ordered it, he ships it to Summit?

As long as this takes place in the time allowed for returns, it seems that all that what is at risk is the shipping fees and the restocking fees?

What am I missing?

Maybe @amirm might not be able to commit to the schedule (understandable), or these days he prefers (again understandable) to have the manufacturer in the loop before testing?
 

delta76

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A bit of communication can go a long way.

However, their return policies are not the best https://www.summithifi.com/policies/refund-policy (to me at least, I'm in EU so most retailers here have at least 30 days of open buy - i.e. I can test it and return if I don't like it. Don't know the common practices in Canada)
basically, you have to return within 30 days, in unused condition. up to 15% restocking fee applies, "unless the item is deemed by Summit Hi-Fi to be defective."

well, in this case I would stay away. it's not worth spending $1500 on a item that you can't return if you don't like it.
 

nathan

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Yes I agree, if someone is looking for an in home trial at the expense of the vendor, that is not likely to happen.

Yes, if one wants to sent it back, it could cost one a few hundred dollars in restocking fees.

If I was in the market for an amp, I might be tempted to take the risk. But probably not otherwise.
 
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