Tonearm, yes tonearms for record players.

[DSJR]

The only low tracking force pickup now I think if still made is the Denon 304, which sang nicely in an RB300 and tracked well I remember. I have an AT120E with a slightly 'detached' bass quality in medium mass arms but in my Garrard AP76 (lower caste arm and plain 4 pole induction motor, but same basic 'chassis' as the Zero 100 which had trip refinements as well as variable speed and the synchro lab motor), the AT120E sounds really nice at 1.5g, some old slightly dull sounding LP's having a little sparkle put back by the hf peak in the cartridge and bass is surprisingly quite well integrated. The current AT VM500 and 700 models have had their tails tweaked for 1.8 - 2g tracking, but not sure if I'd ever fit a VM540 into the Zero to be honest, although the (close to) zero tracking error would benefit the ML stylus I reckon. I did try my V15 IVHE in the Zero and definitely vouch for the efficacy of the damped brush in that tonearm. I've currently got an Ortofon VMS10E II in mine, the unrefined 'edge' in this cartridge (new original stylus) suiting my tastes well (the V15 IV was a real odd one, it's undoubted qualities taking time to creep up on you I felt).

Not sure if this is thread compatible, but another beef (sort of). The Lenco L75 and 78 (Goldring Lenco GL75/78 in the UK). People are buying these on the used market and promptly junking the tonearms, replacing them with dubious quality Ortofon 212's and similar, or slicing that arm mounting off altogether and fitting something 'wilder.' The effective mass isn't low on the Lenco original arm I admit, but the infamous V blocks can be replaced, the lateral bearing friction is very low, the bias correction (oh alright, anti-skate) is accurate enough and if you don't wish to use resonant MC's or whatever, it seems stable enough to me. I once overhauled one and fitted a Linn K9 cartridge (metal mount AT95 body and with a Vital elliptical stylus) and it absolutely annihilated sonically a Linn Axis with K9 (can't remember which Linn arm it was but it could have been the mid period Basik Plus with fixed headshell. As the K9 worked so well and stably in this supposedly heavy tonearm, I'm sure a VM530 or 540 would too. I have the decks here and just need the wherewithal to dig them out, give 'em a cleanup and find the money to purchase the cartridge, which did so well in a German Lowbeats review... Flat plate headshells can also be got as well.

 

[sergeauckland]

I've always liked the L75 arm, squashy V blocks and all. If you look at those V blocks, the vertical bearing isn't really a knife edge like the SME 3009, more an elastomer as the 'knife' sinks into the rubber a fair way, even when new. That isolates the arm tube somewhat from the top plate and thus reduces any rumble transmission from the chassis to the arm. I means that vertical friction is higher than perhaps ideal, but seems 'Good Enough' even for mid/high compliance cartridges like the Goldring G800, 800E. I wouldn't put a G800 Super E or Shure V15 in one, but I don't see it as a bad arm at all.

I had a GL75 for a few years just for playing 78s, as the variable speed could go up to 85/90 rpm so ideal for those early 78s where speed wasn't closely controlled.

S

 

[AudioSceptic]

The only low tracking force pickup now I think if still made is the Denon 304, which sang nicely in an RB300 and tracked well I remember. I have an AT120E with a slightly 'detached' bass quality in medium mass arms but in my Garrard AP76 (lower caste arm and plain 4 pole induction motor, but same basic 'chassis' as the Zero 100 which had trip refinements as well as variable speed and the synchro lab motor), the AT120E sounds really nice at 1.5g, some old slightly dull sounding LP's having a little sparkle put back by the hf peak in the cartridge and bass is surprisingly quite well integrated. The current AT VM500 and 700 models have had their tails tweaked for 1.8 - 2g tracking, but not sure if I'd ever fit a VM540 into the Zero to be honest, although the (close to) zero tracking error would benefit the ML stylus I reckon. I did try my V15 IVHE in the Zero and definitely vouch for the efficacy of the damped brush in that tonearm. I've currently got an Ortofon VMS10E II in mine, the unrefined 'edge' in this cartridge (new original stylus) suiting my tastes well (the V15 IV was a real odd one, it's undoubted qualities taking time to creep up on you I felt).

Not sure if this is thread compatible, but another beef (sort of). The Lenco L75 and 78 (Goldring Lenco GL75/78 in the UK). People are buying these on the used market and promptly junking the tonearms, replacing them with dubious quality Ortofon 212's and similar, or slicing that arm mounting off altogether and fitting something 'wilder.' The effective mass isn't low on the Lenco original arm I admit, but the infamous V blocks can be replaced, the lateral bearing friction is very low, the bias correction (oh alright, anti-skate) is accurate enough and if you don't wish to use resonant MC's or whatever, it seems stable enough to me. I once overhauled one and fitted a Linn K9 cartridge (metal mount AT95 body and with a Vital elliptical stylus) and it absolutely annihilated sonically a Linn Axis with K9 (can't remember which Linn arm it was but it could have been the mid period Basik Plus with fixed headshell. As the K9 worked so well and stably in this supposedly heavy tonearm, I'm sure a VM530 or 540 would too. I have the decks here and just need the wherewithal to dig them out, give 'em a cleanup and find the money to purchase the cartridge, which did so well in a German Lowbeats review... Flat plate headshells can also be got as well.

Yes, the DL304 tracked at ~1.2 g, very low for an MC.

The Lenco arms, although nicely finished, always looked clunky to me, and the huge headshells, except on the GL85, meant that effective mass would always be high. IIRC the K9 had similar VTF to the Linn MCs at 1.7-1.8 g, so that would be OK with a higher mass arm. I always thought the K9 was underrated, and preferred it to the ATF5, for instance. I'm surprised that a Lenco sounded better than an Axis, though. The Axis started out with an LVX+, and later ones came with an Akito, BTW.

 

[anmpr1]

Was the Zero 100 arm ever available separately? I thought you could only get it as part of a complete Garrard TT.

Only part of the package. I meant I had 3 Z-100s over my audiofool career. There are a few stand alone pantograph arms out there, but I've never read anything about them, one way or the other.

 

[DSJR]

Just the one Zero 100 for me, but I do have other decks from its broader family and a good few others from Dual and so on I'm embarrassed to admit to - cough... There is definitely a step up to the Rega, Thorens level and another to the often oil-rig looking types at the top of the tree though.

I know, but that's what we found using the same K9 stylus (the GL75 had fresh exit cables by the way but otherwise was stock). The lenco headshell looks massive, but not sure it's that bad in practise (I haven't weighed them) and as I said earlier, a flat plate type can be sourced now so saving mass, although a spacer may be needed to get VTA more correct. I can only comment on what I experienced first hand. maybe the K9 had a very well damped stylus suspension as the evergreen Denon DL110 does for instance. As a Linn dealer at the time, we saw the Axis with all three arms and the first Akito's seemed to be made of plasticene, so 'soft' was the pillar metal - Linn soon sorted it after all we animals who tightened everything too much as per Linn's instructions years before, damaged so many of the first ones.

I bet US and some UK readers are either laughing their heads off of totally bemused - sorry all! I'll crawl back under my stone now... Ain't 'digital' grand though? So much better potentially and for so much less outlay? - but far less 'fun.'

 

[Frank Dernie]

For marketing over benefit, what about the Garrard Zero 100 tonearm, based on tech described above I think, trying to keep the tracking error eliminated from beginning to end of side? Fascinating to watch working and a styling/colourscheme masterpiece in original idler driven form, but I suspect the improvements were more academic really, as potential distortion due to tracking error isn't an issue doe to higher reading speeds at the beginning of side? Surviving decks are very much conversation pieces these days and mine (an orignal idler driven 'autochanger') doesn't sound anything like as bad as I expected it to, despite all the extra swivel bearings around the headshell and so on (the secondary 'rod' has a captive unipivot at the tonearm end. Totally opposite to the fixed headshell for maximum rigidity and close coupling of many audiophile arms.

The more rigid the arm the more vibration it carries from the plinth to headshell.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Linn soon sorted it after all we animals who tightened everything too much as per Linn's instructions years before, damaged so many of the first ones.

The tighter the bolts the less the damping and the more PRAT generating zing (which isn't on the record) gets to the headshell.
Arms with plenty of bolted junctions with bolts tightened "just right" give the best arm performance. Goldmund recommended tightening one bolt to standard torque for the bolt size and all the others just rtight enough to not come loose. This would be the advice of anybody knowledgeable about vibration and seismic transducers.
I haven't measured any of this for decades though.

 

[DSJR]

It was suggested with the RB300 arm to do the fixing nut up finger tight if that - didn't work for me on their Planar 3 turntable but others swear by it... The current RB330, as well as having a tweaked arm pipe casting which pretty well eliminates self resonances, has a tripod screw fixing, so your suggestion could be easily achieved. As an aside, the best I heard an RB300 was on a Notts Analogue deck mounting 'system' using a simple collet around the pillar which had the side effect of adjusting the VTA instead of using spacers.

So, older SME arms had it right with the rubber grommets in the base isolating it from the armboard...

 

[Tom C]

SME announced a short time ago that they will no longer be selling their tonearms as a stand alone product. If you want an SME arm, you have to buy it mounted to an SME turntable. There is bound to be some independent dealer stock, so some of their arms should be available for a while yet.
Any thoughts on the Kuzma 4-point?

 

[mhardy6647]

The only low tracking force pickup now I think if still made is the Denon 304, which sang nicely in an RB300 and tracked well I remember...

There are still some very light tracking (i.e., high compliance) MM (actually, MI) cartridges from the nice folks at Soundsmith.
I guess they're special order morphs of some of their 'standard' models, but they appear to be spec'd for 1.0 to 1.2g VTF. See, e.g.,
https://sound-smith.com/cartridges/fixed-coil/voice

 

[Frank Dernie]

pretty well eliminates self resonances

That is not physically possible.
Whilst I admire Rega kit, I have an RB300 on my Roksan Xerxes, their static explanations of dynamic phenomena are just scientifically incorrect, as are very many record player makers - it seems few people find what actually happens in dynamic systems intuitive so tend not to believe them (even some good engineers I have worked with).
I had an SME 3009 Mk2 Improved when I went to work in a new R&D team at Garrard in 1975. It was a lovely bit of manufacturing but the output of a cartridge mounted on one showed resonances on its output which we traced to the fixing between the headshell and arm. The resonances all appeared on the cartridge output so could perhaps be heard (I was just doing measurements) and varied depending on how tight the collar was twisted. This is the system that became a "standard" for removeable headshells .
The slide in plastic carrier Garrard had supplied on the SL75 I had before the SME (which was on a home made plinth with Connoiseur BD1 kit) produced no such cartridge output changing resonances and cost pennies to make.
I have always assumed thiose that made good products produced plausible but wrong explanations for their marketing to put their competion off the scent. I went full time F1 racing as soon as I got a job offer and we always did that. Pretty well nothing one might read in Autosport or other publications about the cars is correct because nobody in their right mind would tell a journalist anything which would help the competition if they read it...

 

[Frank Dernie]

There are still some very light tracking (i.e., high compliance) MM (actually, MI) cartridges from the nice folks at Soundsmith.
I guess they're special order morphs of some of their 'standard' models, but they appear to be spec'd for 1.0 to 1.2g VTF. See, e.g.,
https://sound-smith.com/cartridges/fixed-coil/voice

View attachment 50615

Soundsmith bought the rights to the Bang & Olufsen cartridge design when they stopped making them. The high compliance ones are exact equivalents (or were at first, they may have developed them since) sadly they are much more expensive

 

[anmpr1]

the K9 had a very well damped stylus suspension as the evergreen Denon DL110...'

DL-110 used to sell for about a Ben Franklin. Not too many years ago. Now list is $350.00 (but you can find it for less if you shop around. For a third to a half less it's still decent value). Denon used to offer a retip trade-in program, but that went south years ago. Making the purchase a one way street. In a way, under Denon's 'new' management (Sounds United), I'm surprised they even sell cartridges. I guess the tooling has long been amortized, and the remaining workers who are trained to assemble them haven't retired yet.

 

[anmpr1]

...but I do have other decks from its broader family and a good few others from Dual and so on I'm embarrassed to admit to - cough... '

No need to be embarrassed about it. In the context of the late '60s through '70s Dual was a good machine/investment. I owned a 1229--it had a little flip-down door in the front of the base where you could store the stacker and 45 adapter)--very ergonomic. I always wanted a 701, which IMO was the last of the really 'spare no expense' Duals. I owned a 704 but it developed speed problems with the servo. At this stage of the game, forty or fifty years on, they all probably need repair to the auto function and/or electronic parts replacement.

On the other hand, both my Z-100 (idler reduction drive and synchronous motor) and Technics SL-1100a (DD servo) work like they just came out of the box (although I did have to clean up the hardened grease on the underside of the Garrard).

 

[mhardy6647]

Soundsmith bought the rights to the Bang & Olufsen cartridge design when they stopped making them. The high compliance ones are exact equivalents (or were at first, they may have developed them since) sadly they are much more expensive

Yes, exactly so -- I thought that might be a little too in the weeds for this audience.
but, since you went there...
The b&o MMC ("micro moving cross") moving iron cartridges were really very nice -- especially the last generation, which were ultra-low-mass (and tiny), optimized for the b&o arms (sort of precursors to the "P-mount" mounting system that rose to popularity towards the end of the turntable era). I am, even at this late date, something of a b&o tt/cartridge fanboy (full disclosure).

Even the b&o morphs of these cartridges weren't inexpensive (at least the better ones).
I actually bought one of the last b&o MMC-4 cartridges from the b&o store in Boston to equip a seven dollar TX-2 that I picked up at a charity fleamarket in 2002. They were actually very nice to deal with -- but that's a long time ago now.

DSC_9813 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
TX-2L by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

 

[DSJR]

Very clever designs those Beograms and we sold loads in the 80's in various Beosystems (same chassis inside but different clothing depending on the system). I have a working 3000 from a much earlier 1972 generation, with SP12 cartridge, heavy cast sprung sub chassis and platter with rubbery concentric rings rather than the studded type that looked so space age at the time. Looks and sounds great, but too damned efficient really as the auto functions are rapid,only taking up half the main cam's rotation with each 'cycle.' - I want involvement from my vinyl gear, even the auto stuff, not a super efficient appliance

I have a Dual 701 (in addition to a 601, souped up 1214, beloved 1019 and 1009sk2) which is my main deck (dry joint prone now, although I've recapped the power supply as instructed and done my best elsewhere) and it's happily partnered everything from a AT91 to a Koetsu Black and numerous Shure V15's, ADC's/Sonus Blue which I love), an Ortofon M20FL Super and the nicest compromise since my V15VMR was accidentally damaged is an AFC ZLM with new ADC stylus. I plonk a Notts Analogue Spacemat on top of the original which barely affects VTA negatively and records sound 'dead' through the speakers if tapped.

Note to Frank Dernie please - I'm probably still indoctrinated here by Linn, but 'we' were taught/brainwashed into thinking that everything should be tightly coupled as not doing so lost dynamics and sometimes smeared the overall effect - sometimes so, sometimes not it now seems. The Thorens 160/Basik Pus I'm playing with currently has been rebuilt much more sensitively, the bolts carefully nipped rather than crushed up (as I now do with LP12's I service) and sonically, it ain't bad at all. As for Garrards, I brought my AP76 down (flimsy looking headshell in Linn-speak) and have had a whale of a time fighting dried grease I thought I'd done (they put the bloody stuff everywhere - if it slides or pivots, ladle it on - and this deck came to me in original but seized condition some years back)

P.S. I have a discwasher brush like that still somewhere and I think the stylus brush as well, all from the mists of time..

 

[Frank Dernie]

Yes, exactly so -- I thought that might be a little too in the weeds for this audience.
but, since you went there...
The b&o MMC ("micro moving cross") moving iron cartridges were really very nice -- especially the last generation, which were ultra-low-mass (and tiny), optimized for the b&o arms (sort of precursors to the "P-mount" mounting system that rose to popularity towards the end of the turntable era). I am, even at this late date, something of a b&o tt/cartridge fanboy (full disclosure).

Even the b&o morphs of these cartridges weren't inexpensive (at least the better ones).
I actually bought one of the last b&o MMC-4 cartridges from the b&o store in Boston to equip a seven dollar TX-2 that I picked up at a charity fleamarket in 2002. They were actually very nice to deal with -- but that's a long time ago now.

DSC_9813 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr
TX-2L by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

I have a Beogram 8002 which needs a rebuilt cartridge.

 

[mhardy6647]

So -- I got to thinkin'... some of y'all might find this blog interesting (if you're not aware of it already).
This guy, Alex Korf, is interested in improving record playing hardware in an objective way. In full disclosure, he does have skin in the game (he churned out some ceramic SME-style "universal" headshells to sell, but both his heart and his head seem (to me) to be in the right place.
At any rate, with that introduction, some of you folks might want to take a look at:
https://korfaudio.com/blog

 

[AudioSceptic]

So -- I got to thinkin'... some of y'all might find this blog interesting (if you're not aware of it already).
This guy, Alex Korf, is interested in improving record playing hardware in an objective way. In full disclosure, he does have skin in the game (he churned out some ceramic SME-style "universal" headshells to sell, but both his heart and his head seem (to me) to be in the right place.
At any rate, with that introduction, some of you folks might want to take a look at:
https://korfaudio.com/blog

Looks worth a look. I'm sure Frank D will have somethings to say..

 

[AudioSceptic]

Very clever designs those Beograms and we sold loads in the 80's in various Beosystems (same chassis inside but different clothing depending on the system). I have a working 3000 from a much earlier 1972 generation, with SP12 cartridge, heavy cast sprung sub chassis and platter with rubbery concentric rings rather than the studded type that looked so space age at the time. Looks and sounds great, but too damned efficient really as the auto functions are rapid,only taking up half the main cam's rotation with each 'cycle.' - I want involvement from my vinyl gear, even the auto stuff, not a super efficient appliance

I have a Dual 701 (in addition to a 601, souped up 1214, beloved 1019 and 1009sk2) which is my main deck (dry joint prone now, although I've recapped the power supply as instructed and done my best elsewhere) and it's happily partnered everything from a AT91 to a Koetsu Black and numerous Shure V15's, ADC's/Sonus Blue which I love), an Ortofon M20FL Super and the nicest compromise since my V15VMR was accidentally damaged is an AFC ZLM with new ADC stylus. I plonk a Notts Analogue Spacemat on top of the original which barely affects VTA negatively and records sound 'dead' through the speakers if tapped.

Note to Frank Dernie please - I'm probably still indoctrinated here by Linn, but 'we' were taught/brainwashed into thinking that everything should be tightly coupled as not doing so lost dynamics and sometimes smeared the overall effect - sometimes so, sometimes not it now seems. The Thorens 160/Basik Pus I'm playing with currently has been rebuilt much more sensitively, the bolts carefully nipped rather than crushed up (as I now do with LP12's I service) and sonically, it ain't bad at all. As for Garrards, I brought my AP76 down (flimsy looking headshell in Linn-speak) and have had a whale of a time fighting dried grease I thought I'd done (they put the bloody stuff everywhere - if it slides or pivots, ladle it on - and this deck came to me in original but seized condition some years back)

P.S. I have a discwasher brush like that still somewhere and I think the stylus brush as well, all from the mists of time..

I was snared by Linn a long time ago (convinced by demos, plus the fact that nearly all journos used LP12s as a reference), so I'm with you on the close coupled, minimal play philosophy (or propaganda?). It's interesting, isn't it, that SME radically changed their design ideas with the IV and V, in response to the Zeta, Ittok, etc, when everyone was switching to MC carts.