Tom Danley Signature Series HRE1 4,400-watt 4-way Powered Loudspeaker

[gnarly]

The frequency and phase look nice, but 132dB? This is approaching the "jet engine / gunfire" parts of the typical SPL charts...

Someone should ask DSL how they came up with that 132dB number.

As much as I find the prosound world to offer good science and understanding of loudspeaker principles, one area it has failed miserably at is in specifying max SPL.
I guess because in PA, where SPL means so much, it becomes an all too important spec, where marketing is willing to stretch things, or has to to look competitive to the undereducated marketplace.

Anyway, the typical prosound 'formula' for estimating max SPL, is to take rated sensitivity and increase that by the wattage rating.
For instance, say a driver has a sensitivity of 90dB and is rated for 250W. 250W = about +24dB.
So, some manufacturers will say it has a max SPL of 114dB.
But some will say, hey that rating is AES continuous, program rating is 3dB higher. So we can say 117dB.
And some will say further, but that 117dB is an average max SPL, we can add more for instantaneous peaks, maye another +3 to + 6dB.
So now we might see a max SPL spec of 123dB.

Which completely ignores any thermal compression, or the ability to produce the sensitivity rating across the entire spectrum, raised by power ratings.
Iow, optimistic bullshit at best.

The example above was of course for just a driver, not a full active speaker. But the principle is the same.

You can look at the driver sections employed in the speaker, and get a good sense of what realistic max SPL is available across the spectrum.
Get's pretty easy after you've built a few higher powered multi-ways.
In my estimation, there's no way the HRE1 can make 132dB across the spectrum, even if the SPL is defined as max instantaneous peak.
Maybe the 132 dB is a peak spec taken at a narrow freq range from the most sensitive and displacement capable driver section...
but ain't no way imo, that it's average SPL across the spectrum.

 

[kemmler3D]

Someone should ask DSL how they came up with that 132dB number.

As much as I find the prosound world to offer good science and understanding of loudspeaker principles, one area it has failed miserably at is in specifying max SPL.
I guess because in PA, where SPL means so much, it becomes an all too important spec, where marketing is willing to stretch things, or has to to look competitive to the undereducated marketplace.

Anyway, the typical prosound 'formula' for estimating max SPL, is to take rated sensitivity and increase that by the wattage rating.
For instance, say a driver has a sensitivity of 90dB and is rated for 250W. 250W = about +24dB.
So, some manufacturers will say it has a max SPL of 114dB.
But some will say, hey that rating is AES continuous, program rating is 3dB higher. So we can say 117dB.
And some will say further, but that 117dB is an average max SPL, we can add more for instantaneous peaks, maye another +3 to + 6dB.
So now we might see a max SPL spec of 123dB.

Which completely ignores any thermal compression, or the ability to produce the sensitivity rating across the entire spectrum, raised by power ratings.
Iow, optimistic bullshit at best.

The example above was of course for just a driver, not a full active speaker. But the principle is the same.

You can look at the driver sections employed in the speaker, and get a good sense of what realistic max SPL is available across the spectrum.
Get's pretty easy after you've built a few higher powered multi-ways.
In my estimation, there's no way the HRE1 can make 132dB across the spectrum, even if the SPL is defined as max instantaneous peak.
Maybe the 132 dB is a peak spec taken at a narrow freq range from the most sensitive and displacement capable driver section...
but ain't no way imo, that it's average SPL across the spectrum.

Good points. I mean if it could do 132 at 20hz it'd be peeling paint off the cars in the parking lot outside the stadium, so I think you're probably right it's for a limited frequency band, or just an optimistic estimate of peak...

On the other hand, Danley is a pretty credible guy / brand from what I understand, so I imagine you can still easily deafen yourself with this thing, in room, even if it only hits 127 or something.

 

[voodooless]

132 dB may be doable if you count the 4 15” drivers together at 1 meter at 50 Hz. In reflex probably also lower. You will need 20mm one-way Xmax though

Anything above the bass is probably no issue for music, it will be at least 10 to 20 dB lower in volume.

Corner placement should also help.

@Tom Danley may be able to elaborate…

 

[ctrl]

Good points. I mean if it could do 132 at 20hz it'd be peeling paint off the cars in the parking lot outside the stadium, so I think you're probably right it's for a limited frequency band, or just an optimistic estimate of peak...

Unfortunately, this is not even close to being possible.

If we take two random, high-power 15'' PA subwoofers and tune them via Linkwitz transform in a CB enclosure to an f3 of 30Hz, then about 116dB is realistic on infinite baffle and 110dB in free field until Xmax is exceeded.
A little more is possible with an additional protection HP.


If you completely abandon low bass, the extremely high power handling of the two subwoofers allows an SPL of about 131dB with infinite baffle and an amplifier power of 2400W.


The specification states a lower frequency limit of 14Hz. Even if we assume the specification refers to f10 and not f3, 132dB in the free field with an f10=14Hz is only possible in Barbieland - few of us are likely to live there

Probably the 132dB of maxSPL refers to very special conditions with a special test tone to get the highest possible SPL values - there will surely be an industry standard that makes this possible.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Even

Genelec 8381 can't reach that SPL

 

[voodooless]

If we take two random, high-power 15'' PA subwoofers

There is your problem. Random is no good. You need purpose build. You need high power, high Xmax. Your choice does not qualify. Also, don’t forget that it’s a reflex enclosure.

On the other hand, that surround does not look like a super high excursion subwoofer driver…

 

[sarumbear]

…but 132dB? This is approaching the "jet engine / gunfire" parts of the typical SPL charts...

Don’t believe everything you read. Laws of phsyic will not allow that value unless those 15” woofers somehow can have 10” excursion. (Xmax 245mm)

 

[voodooless]

Don’t believe everything you read. Laws of phsyic will not allow that value unless those 15” woofers somehow can have 10” excursion. (Xmax 245mm)

You must live in a different universe:

 

[voodooless]

This looks to be a close visual match:

LaVoce WAF154.01 - 15″ Subwoofer

15″ Subwoofer, 42 Hz, 2000 W, 95 dB, 8 Ω

www.loudspeakerdatabase.com

Only 10mm Xmax though… hardly what I’d call long throw…

 

[ctrl]

There is your problem. Random is no good. You need purpose build. You need high power, high Xmax. Your choice does not qualify. Also, don’t forget that it’s a reflex enclosure.

On the other hand, that surround does not look like a super high excursion subwoofer driver…

Of course, the selection was not completely random An extremely resilient PA subwoofer with a comparable cone surround concept was selected:

Had found no details of the subwoofer concept in the specification and therefore assumed CB. Assuming an f3 of 30Hz, which I would expect at least as limit from such a large and expensive speaker, even if there would be about 6dB more SPL in the low bass with BR, you would still be far from 132dB.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

OK, so without further reading. I went to Danley HQ in June. Got a demo from the President, Mike while Tom Danley was there as well. I have Danley SH-50's on top of Danley TH-50 subs in my living room. I still have 4 TD-1's and have owned several other Danley speakers. I actually HEARD these speakers and let me tell you, they even amazed ME. They just sound frikking incredible. They are ver small for the sound they put out. The little horn on top goes down to 45 Hz. and the twin 15's below are actually Subwoofers. So if you have the cash, they are the smallest you can buy for that kind of low distortion, micro detailed, sound with amazing dynamics and bottomless bass response. My buddy who owns lots of other great horns and horn subs agrees with my impressions. When you finally LISTEN to those, you will go home and throw rocks at whatever you have now.

 

[YSDR]

When you finally LISTEN to those, you will go home and throw rocks at whatever you have now.

That's maybe true if one are a fan of how horns (and compression drivers in general) sounds.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

That's maybe true if one are a fan of how horns (and compression drivers in general) sounds.

Danley's Synergy Horns don't suffer from your UNHEARD prejudice. They sound more like Quad ESL's with DYNAMICS and high output. Your comment made no FACTUAL contributions to the topic. Maybe.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

Don’t believe everything you read. Laws of phsyic will not allow that value unless those 15” woofers somehow can have 10” excursion. (Xmax 245mm)

Tom developed some novel reflex ports to minimize Xmax, which is what br enclosures do. Electrical bandpass is built in.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

Someone should ask DSL how they came up with that 132dB number.

As much as I find the prosound world to offer good science and understanding of loudspeaker principles, one area it has failed miserably at is in specifying max SPL.
I guess because in PA, where SPL means so much, it becomes an all too important spec, where marketing is willing to stretch things, or has to to look competitive to the undereducated marketplace.

Anyway, the typical prosound 'formula' for estimating max SPL, is to take rated sensitivity and increase that by the wattage rating.
For instance, say a driver has a sensitivity of 90dB and is rated for 250W. 250W = about +24dB.
So, some manufacturers will say it has a max SPL of 114dB.
But some will say, hey that rating is AES continuous, program rating is 3dB higher. So we can say 117dB.
And some will say further, but that 117dB is an average max SPL, we can add more for instantaneous peaks, maye another +3 to + 6dB.
So now we might see a max SPL spec of 123dB.

Which completely ignores any thermal compression, or the ability to produce the sensitivity rating across the entire spectrum, raised by power ratings.
Iow, optimistic bullshit at best.

The example above was of course for just a driver, not a full active speaker. But the principle is the same.

You can look at the driver sections employed in the speaker, and get a good sense of what realistic max SPL is available across the spectrum.
Get's pretty easy after you've built a few higher powered multi-ways.
In my estimation, there's no way the HRE1 can make 132dB across the spectrum, even if the SPL is defined as max instantaneous peak.
Maybe the 132 dB is a peak spec taken at a narrow freq range from the most sensitive and displacement capable driver section...
but ain't no way imo, that it's average SPL across the spectrum.

All you guys' theories aside, Tom Danley measures his loudspeakers OUTDOORS, with numeric accuracy and TRUTH. Skeptics need not apply here.

If he can combine 64 compression drivers into one SUPER Super Tweeter to throw highs across the length of a Football Field (J4-31), designing a Home loudspeaker with all the modern stuff was just a matter of time for him.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

No.
Keith

Non, Mr. Purite. I heard them in several good rooms over many visits to the Danley HQ, and I used to own Tom's older "little" USA horns.

I now have owned SH-50's (sound unheard when purchased) for 10 years, and I was impressed with the sound of those little horns on top of the subwoofer portion (45 Hz. on up). I also owned 20 (still have 4) of his TD-1 Unity Aperture Summation Conical Horns, which also never suffered from honk.

Like Music Critics without any "skin in the game," unqualified OPINIONS have little value for those who seek Sonic Nirvana with their Cash.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

C'mon, it was a joke. But still me wouldn't like them to block my sight outside, adding even that chair. I've git DIY speakers of a similar form factor, but they're matt white for a reason, and sport protection for the membranes, and sport a full cover of all openings white cloth.

Technology, yeah, a four way is the way to go even with such huge specimen. But the max SPL will never be exploited, so what is the point with (not the four way design, but) such massive furniture @home?

The Point is LOW Intermodulation Distortion, which Paul W. Klipsch got an Audio Engineering Society Silver Medal for in the 70's when I was a member. Zero Thermal Compression or Clipping. they are TIME Aligned.

I got the same tour as Erin, June 2024, from Mike and Tom.

 

[Soniclife]

That's maybe true if one are a fan of how horns (and compression drivers in general) sounds.

Veils didn't drop for me either, but when I heard them they were probably to close together in a small room. If you want loud in a large room the options are much more limited, but if you don't there was nothing* special about these, in my opinion.

* The bottom end was great, as you should expect from such a large box.

 

[ClaudeJ1]

They are way smaller than Klipsch's latest Jubilees (I owned a pair of the older ones), and the Amazing Sadurni Staccato horns I heard in 2014 at Axpona, which won best of show against Magico and Wilson entries that were in the Hundreds of thousands. So for less than 50 grand for all of these, the HRE-1's are the SMALLEST with even better performance.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Probably the only competitor to this speaker
But costs way more