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Tom Danley’s new Hyperion

Emlin

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We shall see I guess,
specs,
Speaker type | 4-Way Powered
Tweeter | 1” Polyester / Neodymium / Kapton
Midrange | 5” Treated Paper / Neodymium / Kapton
Woofer | 2x 8” Treated Paper / Neodymium
Subwoofer | 2x 15” Long Excursion
Frequency Response | 14Hz-23.7KHz
Crossover Frequency | 2kHz / 260Hz / 45Hz
Total Amplifier Power | 2650 Watt
Bass Amplifier | 1500 Watt
Low Amplifier | 750 Watt
Mid/High Amplifier | 400 Watt
Inputs | XLR
Height | 54.75 in | 139 cm
Horn Center | 45 in | 114 cm
Top Width | 22.5 in | 57 cm
Top Depth | 19.75 in | 50 cm
Base Width |28.25 in | 71.75 cm
Base Depth | 27.56 in | 70 cm
Cabinet finishes | TBA


Keith, are you seriously considering going back to horns?
 

Jim Matthews

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Purité Audio

Purité Audio

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Keith, are you seriously considering going back to horns?
Back to the future, maybe I would very much like to hear them here.
Keith
 

617

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http://libinst.com/SynergyCalc/Synergy Calc V5.pdf
Read the paragraph, "About Danley Unity or Synergy Horns."
Thanks. I'm pretty sure I read this back in the day but wasn't aware of this passage:

A conical horn also has a tendency toward “waistbanding”, a characteristic in which the directivity
increases and the pattern becomes narrower near the low end of the operating frequency range. Don
Keele investigated this effect and found that if the section near the mouth of the horn was widened with
a sharper second flare or large roundover, the waistbanding effect could be mitigated. That second flare
is included in horns designed with this spreadsheet.

I'm not sure if I'd ever seen this added profile in any of the unity horns I'd seen.

Very exciting to see speakers which solve the directivity problems the good old fashioned way with big horns and monster dynamics.
 

ctrl

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Wow! Now that's a monster speaker! :eek:

Since this speaker relies on "diffraction slots" in an extreme way, I would primarily be interested in the speaker's decay behavior.

It would also be interesting to see if any effects are observed at high sound pressure levels when the drivers have to work against the "diffraction slots" - e.g. compression effects.
 

Stu Pidasso

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If I were to guess I'd think these will be priced somewhere around $6500 each, so $13k for a pair. But that's just a guess, I came to it by pricing the similar component offerings on the pro side that are equivalent with the powered option taken into consideration, basically a powered SM60 and a powered pair of TH115's
 

abdo123

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If I were to guess I'd think these will be priced somewhere around $6500 each, so $13k for a pair. But that's just a guess, I came to it by pricing the similar component offerings on the pro side that are equivalent with the powered option taken into consideration, basically a powered SM60 and a powered pair of TH115's

i would put an extra 0 on these numbers. ;)
 

Ra1zel

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Why does anyone especially on an Audio Science site, accept Smoothed responses..... Lets see the raw response
Because on a science oriented website we recognize that that raw response is rather useless and use of psychoacoustic smoothing is very rational.
 

617

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Well that's incorrect. You think it's true, but it isn't
There is some debate as to the proper method of smoothing, but there is little question that the narrowband resonances seen in an unsmoothed response are less audible than the overall trends revealed by a properly smoothed response.

Designers use both, but unsmoothed matches our hearing only if there are very dramatic resonances. Consumers are not equipped to interpret unsmoothed frequency response charts as any ASR discussion will demonstrate. Same with CSD and impulse, which all show the same data.
 
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DRNNOO

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Thats neither here nor there...

Hypothetical situation;
An anechoic measurement and one taken in a room... lets say the smoothed inroom is identical to the anechoic raw measurement... The raw inroom response looks nothing like the anechoic raw response... lets now pretend like the changes shown in the raw inroom response are inaudible

The trend of response is shown by smoothing. This trend is likely the tone we will perceive... the less deviation in a raw measurement, the more resolved the sound is... when there is a high amount of arrivals, or even when a driver is not performing well, or even a bad crossover, this is reflected in the response.... the response with less deviation is of higher sonic clarity, I do not want this information hidden from me.

1709794704131.png


In particular, the unsmoothed frequency response and unsmoothed group delay, will show the level of clarity a loudspeaker provides, the less deviation obviously, the better. Particularly important for inroom measurements, as a very hairy response like the red measurement above, will have less transient accuracy than of it measured like the blue, in a room.
 
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DRNNOO

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Citation needed? lol... If you don't know what what an impulse response is you could start there.... a smoothed response is not represented by the actual IR. The more deviation an IR has from the theoretical perfect Impulse, the more distorted the response is.... I thought that was common knowledge around these parts. Everything one does to increase accuracy in sound reproduction essentially improves the IR. No citation needed, thats common sense.... or no?

The more accurately a system recreates an IR, the more clarity/accuracy that system is said to produce...

Group Delay is essentially time to peak energy, so when you have group delay all over the place you basically have different parts of the frequency response arriving to your ear at various times... when you flatten out phase and timeline system you're basically undo this, causing the different parts of the spectrum to arrive to the listeners ear synchronously

It is said that we process hf so fast that direct sound is perceived somewhat separately from later arrivals, and that everything else is perceived as air/ambience... but the reverberated energy can mask parts of the signal
 
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DavidEdwinAston

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We shall see I guess,
specs,
Speaker type | 4-Way Powered
Tweeter | 1” Polyester / Neodymium / Kapton
Midrange | 5” Treated Paper / Neodymium / Kapton
Woofer | 2x 8” Treated Paper / Neodymium
Subwoofer | 2x 15” Long Excursion
Frequency Response | 14Hz-23.7KHz
Crossover Frequency | 2kHz / 260Hz / 45Hz
Total Amplifier Power | 2650 Watt
Bass Amplifier | 1500 Watt
Low Amplifier | 750 Watt
Mid/High Amplifier | 400 Watt
Inputs | XLR
Height | 54.75 in | 139 cm
Horn Center | 45 in | 114 cm
Top Width | 22.5 in | 57 cm
Top Depth | 19.75 in | 50 cm
Base Width |28.25 in | 71.75 cm
Base Depth | 27.56 in | 70 cm
Cabinet finishes | TBA
With this spec, aren't these, the, end of times, speaker?
And also, end of life, for any husband who tries to sneak them into the family home?
 

voodooless

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Everything one does to increase accuracy in sound reproduction essentially improves the IR. No citation needed, thats common sense.
That is not the contention. This is about audibility. The red unsmoothed response of your example, is not at all how our hearing would interpret how the speaker sounds. Our hearing simply masked a lot of these effects. Never mind that most of what you see there is from room effects, not from the speaker itself. A speaker by itself would never exhibit these extreme effects. So, if we want to evaluate a speaker, the room should not be taken into account. That's why Amir had his nice measurement equipment. If you don't have that (or an anechoic chamber), you'll have to use a bit of windowing and smoothing to derive something resembling an anechoic measurement. That's what we see here. No, it's not perfect, but it will tell you plenty. It would be much more useful to see the off-axis response and a waterfall or spectrogram plot than a less smoothed response.

Danley offers some very nice tools for its speakers so you can evaluate more, like the Polar Explorer:
1709815231907.png

Sadly the Hyperion is not in there, the above is from the SH50 however, which has a very similar (identical?) horn construction. This is much more interesting than an unsmoothed response.
 

DRNNOO

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So, if we want to evaluate a speaker, the room should not be taken into account
Thats not true. The speaker and the room form a system. If you make the room a constant, you will find that some loudspeakers perform better, than others. This is the case with a loudspeaker that has high DI vs one that has low DI, all else equal. Because most of us listen in rooms, the room performance a loudspeaker creates, definitely should be considered. For that same reason you will not find open baffle a staple in studio monitoring... cause it doesn't lead to accurate playback in rooms. Things like constant directivity also have a direct impact on room performance and many people strive to achieve it, for this matter. Constant directivity helps to cause a more neutral room response.

When discussing accuracy the IR is definitely a major factor, and because the room affects the final result, and different loudspeakers cause different results in a room, unless you plan on listening outside or in an anechoic chamber, the rooms response matters as well

It would be much more useful to see the off-axis response and a waterfall or spectrogram plot than a less smoothed response.

When you look at a waterfall/spectrogram, you look at almost the same thing as the FR, except theres no smoothing.... I guess this depends on what program you use... REW does not allow smoothing of the waterfall...

I am not saying that smoothing the FR is useless, I am saying that the unsmoothed FR is just as useful, and necessary
 
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voodooless

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The speaker and the room form a system.
Sure they do :)
If you make the room a constant, you will find that some loudspeakers perform better, than others.
Yes, some speakers perform better in some rooms than others, but the relation isn't very strong as I remember from Toole's work. The preference scores correlate very well with various room types.
This is the case with a loudspeaker that has high DI vs one that has low DI, all else equal. Because most of us listen in rooms, the room performance a loudspeaker creates, definitely should be considered.
I'm not saying it should not be considered. But we're not evaluating a system here, we're evaluating a speaker. Those are two different things. If one speaker in a room gives you this red mess:
index.php

Another will not perform magnitudes better in that same room, especially not above the Schroeder frequency. Yes, DI differences will make some impact here, but then the speaker with the narrowest DI would be considered best, and we know that in general, this isn't exactly the case.
For that same reason you will not find open baffle a staple in studio monitoring... cause it doesn't lead to accurate playback in rooms. Things like constant directivity have a direct impact on room performance and many people strive to achieve it, for this matter.
Sure, then give me the polars, not some unsmoothed response.
 
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