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Todays way to go for Dolby Atmos Preamp

ernestcarl

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if you use a PC as your main playback source (like me), you could always use virtualization through headphones as an alternative! LOL :p Obviously... I prefer real speakers, but currently with limited equipment, you do what you have to do.

FYI: I retested the DTS:X & Atmos demo files and streaming content... and well, yes, even a 4.1 (pseudo 5.1 -- JRiver downmixing) system that I have is leagues better over virtualization through headphones. While it's not necessary to install and use their software, using Dolby Access and enabling DTS:X plugin in Windows 10 improves the sound quite a lot bit. Hmmm... or maybe it's just purely my imagination? Better I'll let you folks decide by doing your own tests.

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DTS "Living World" demo video audio stream:
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carlob

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I just need something like the Emotiva xmc-2 without the stuff in red and possibly with decent measures (and with HDMI 2.1 and Dirac):

Screenshot 2019-12-28 at 10.31.39.png
 
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Sancus

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I just need something like the Emotiva xmc-2 without the stuff in red and possibly with decent measures (and with HDMI 2.1 and Dirac):

HDMI 2.1 is probably impossible for any small manufacturers, that should change pretty quickly but there's a reason most 2019 TVs didn't even include it. To have access to HDMI 2.1 hardware you needed to put in minimum orders in the millions of dollars.

Also, there's no way you're getting anything like that for less than $2000, Dirac alone adds hundreds of dollars to the cost for their licensing fees. The XMC-2's price is honestly pretty fair relative to competitors. If it had Auro3d upmixing I would probably even buy it.
 

carlob

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HDMI 2.1 is probably impossible for any small manufacturers, that should change pretty quickly but there's a reason most 2019 TVs didn't even include it.

LG Oleds do, but besides that HDMI 2.1 is future proof which is important if you don't want to own an expensive piece of furniture after a couple of years IMHO. Also who needs the freaking radio :D

Btw the previous emotiva XMC-1 was measured on the forum with average results but nothing to write home about. Also the XMC-2 is 4K Euro here which is not exactly cheap.
 

Sancus

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LG Oleds do, but besides that HDMI 2.1 is future proof which is important if you don't want to own an expensive piece of furniture after a couple of years IMHO.

Yes, correct, LG has billions of dollars. The need for full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 is overrated, it's not needed as long as the device has eARC. Just plug your few full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 devices into the TV, and eARC will pass Atmos or whatever to the AVR. And you can still plug your non-HDMI 2.1 devices(most of them) into the AVR.
 

ernestcarl

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Busy holiday season with all the family gatherings hasn't allowed me to sit long enough in my main listening room.

Now that I have, it seems to me that there's still a lot that needs to be done to improve Tidal Music's (and Amazon's) implementation of "Dolby Atmos" music. This might need a thread of it's own, but I need to clarify my presumptions in earlier posts here. On their website it states that only Android devices are supported. Okay. But I was able to play the tracks in my iPhone and in Windows without any warning or halt sign, so what gives? For one thing, the stream looks like (at least in Windows) it only has two channels + the Atmos metadata (?). MAYBE. When you play a music track with Atmos formatting, Windows' "Dolby for Atmos Headphones" sign is displayed. As soon as you stop playing the track, it disappears. Media with absent Atmos metadata (e.g. Spotify, Foobar, JRiver etc.) does not activate the aforementioned sign. When one routes the audio into an analyzer, one sees only two channels. Play this file directly to your multichannel DAC and you get plain stereo -- yes, increased spatialization is clearly there, nevertheless, but it's not MCH as we normally understand it to be. This is completely different to the other demos that we've seen where Atmos metadata is always embedded in multichannel (6 at least) track containing media files. I've read other people say Atmos capable receivers don't play it as MCH audio as well.

But this isn't even the only issue! Play regular old songs in the Tidal app and you get the pop up sign "Dolby Atmos for Headphones" ! What the F---!? Why is this activated just in this music app? Talk about false advertisment...

This begs the question, what exactly is Tidal and Amazon's target audience here? Headphone and smart speaker users? I thought, we'd finally get "thousands" of MCH surround music tracks to stream with this innovation, but apparently the design, as it stands, seems incomplete at best, and nothing more than utter gimmicky-hype with false flags and dubious claims all over the place (as per usual with Tidal) at worst.

And here are more annoying as hell things with DTS:X and Atmos Decoding in Windows, with the headphone plugins disabled and 5.1/7.1ch setting selected, you don't actually get any benefit from the Dolby Access software unless you route your audio directly to a compatible receiver. Bummer. On the other hand, if you purchased the DTS:X codec license, it does seem to work and improve the sound coming out from my MCH speaker system -- with media accompanied by a DTS:X audio stream. Yay! (although maybe it's all just my dumb imagination?) The only thing is that it's hard to know if it's working correctly as you don't get a specific sign stating clearly that "DTS:X processing is enabled" if you play a file with said audio format.

Moreover, with every media file played that has ostensibly object-based surround metadata, the specific sign/banner (DTS:X or Atmos -- and even Windows Sonic!) that pops up will be almost always the one that you selected initially. o_O So if you selected Atmos, even if you play a file with DTS:X or other DTS audio stream(s), the sign that pops up would be "Dolby Atmos for Headphones". Same with streamed media: if I play an ("Atmos" or none-Atmos) music track in the Tidal Music app, the sign "DTS Headphone:X in use" will show up if that's the selection I made beforehand. This is incredibly stupid. The operating system is not intelligent enough to automatically apply the correct decoder plugin according to the metadata format header of the media being played. :mad:

Windows Notification:
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Pop-up sign/indicator when clicking the volume icon:
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In fact, play almost any file with either DTS or Dolby format stream and you get the banner/sign popping up. I tried to factor out my software player by playing files directly with the Windows "Movies & TV" app. Although, as I mentioned, it doesn't pop up with every media file I've tested e.g. some mkv files with 2ch Dolby Digital stream only, and the demo media with dolby streams that aren't specifically DD or DD+ e.g. Dolby TrueHD (with and without the Atmos metadata -- not that said Windows app can play it correctly, natively, anyhows) -- for that, you need a third party player like PowerDVD.

Current state of these "futuristic, innovative" formats in Windows is... a complete mess! Yep, if you use a HTPC, bitstreaming/routing audio directly to Atmos or DTS:X ready receivers via HDMI may be necessary for quite a while -- If you want to avoid more unecessary headaches... That's all I can honestly say.
 
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angelluisg

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Yes you see it. The only things are these preamps which do really my needs. This or yamaha cx-a and so on..
But the point is. You need only outs with atmos decoding.
With this preamps we acting in 2k - 3k price range for products which are old in the next month when the new standard hdmi 2.1 comes out.
I think i will go with the yamaha soon when the money is ready... for my needs it has all i want..
 

angelluisg

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Yes you see it. The only things are these preamps which do really my needs. This or yamaha cx-a and so on..
But the point is. You need only outs with atmos decoding.
With this preamps we acting in 2k - 3k price range for products which are old in the next month when the new standard hdmi 2.1 comes out.
I think i will go with the yamaha soon when the money is ready... for my needs it has all i want..
yes ..yamaha is a big avr.. but I like more Marantz 10 years using marantz first avr SR 5009 then AVR SR 7012 amazing .. now..AV 7705 preamp ..espectacular..hi-res audio flac 24/192 khz , dolby atmos , XLR balanced out, HdmI.4k 2.1 and 2.2 thanks
 
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yes ..yamaha is a big avr.. but I like more Marantz 10 years using marantz first avr SR 5009 then AVR SR 7012 amazing .. now..AV 7705 preamp ..espectacular..hi-res audio flac 24/192 khz , dolby atmos , XLR balanced out, HdmI.4k 2.1 and 2.2 thanks

Sorry but the Marantz doesnt have hdmi 2.1. And will not in future. It only has hdcp 2.2. Without 2.3 new standards are blocked.
But I agree. For the 2k area this is one of the best preamps you can buy
 

angelluisg

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Sorry but the Marantz doesnt have hdmi 2.1. And will not in future. It only has hdcp 2.2. Without 2.3 new standards are blocked.
But I agree. For the 2k area this is one of the best preamps you can buy
yes you are wright ..I am confused with HDCP 2.2..THANKS .
 

SpaceMonkey

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Why not just wait for newer Denon releases, buy cheap AVR with ATMOS (with service manual) and then just disconnect power amps section and install RCA outputs. Or Denon x3600 - X4500 are readily available with all outputs you want, just again disconnect power amp sections.
 
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Do you think you can simply disconnect the amp section and the firmware will not throw errors? I dont think so.
If thats the case no pre-pro´s have any rights for there existence...
 

SpaceMonkey

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Do you think you can simply disconnect the amp section and the firmware will not throw errors? I dont think so.
If thats the case no pre-pro´s have any rights for there existence...
This depends on the protection circuitry. With a bit of background in electronics not a really challenging task. Essentially most AV pres are the same receivers with amps ripped out.
 

Costas EAR

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I'm realistically only interested in a processor that's actually affordable. Anything that's $3-6k is just way too overly exhorbitant in my book. Again, how the hell are most people supposed to take advantage of all that Atmos goodness affordably?
For high quality immersive setup, the price range of the available av processors starts from 3-3,5k with XLR outputs and dirac.

Cheaper solutions exist, but with compromise in outputs (no XLR) and calibration software.

The absolutely cheapest with dirac are from nad, at 1,3k, with RCA outputs, dirac, and some integrated amps.
Yamaha provides XLR outputs at the 2k price range, but without dirac.

Athem has some good pieces also.
 
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yes. now look the nad... it is the baddest measured amp ive ever seen. Some people there not read our threads HEAR the distortion and noise.
So... if the had a nice dac the nad was the one for me... so next ist the yamaha... any other are over 3k.

Its terrible..

I like the idea to disconnect the amps of an av like rx-a3080 or 2080 but i dont think this is possible.
 

Costas EAR

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yes. now look the nad... it is the baddest measured amp ive ever seen.
I've seen the measurements.
Not that bad, but ok, not so good either.
Well, there are many avr's sounding much worse.
This bad nad (quite funny, don't you think? Bad nad! Hahaha) is the best sounding av at this price range. ;)

Dirac makes the difference.

PS. You should use hypex amps with nad or any other av at this price range. Or active speakers.
 
OP
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but i would use it as a pre... so...
processing is not the tool to correct the world of sounding. The best processor cannot hide the hard reality if something goes wrong before...
it is for optimizing not for correcting failures. This is a problem which nearly nobody understands. ... But its not the topic here

so easy as it sounds i want simply a pre for atmos with clear strong preouts..
i say it again and again... nobody can help here because there ist nothing under thousands of $ or €
 

Costas EAR

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i say it again and again... nobody can help here because there ist nothing under thousands of $ or €
Yes, true.

Atmos includes 12 channels of audio, so it has to be 6 times the cost of a decent stereo preamp plus 6 times the cost of a decent stereo dac, and you still need hdmi and dsp capabilities, dolby's etc.

But the problem of high cost is bigger in speakers, because 11 decent speakers, cost much more than 2 speakers, and you also need multiple decent subs.

So yes, it is true. Atmos is expensive.
 
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OP
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the funny thing is, that i would use 6 decent stereo preamps for that when there will be a decoder which give me the signals i needed. :D
so... i need a cx-a5200 yamaha.
Who will buy me one? :D:D:D
 
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