• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

To get ride of PC white noise, dac with balanced outputs or dac with optical input ?

jpqc

Member
Joined
May 29, 2022
Messages
8
Likes
1
I got the jbl 305p mkII recently and I've that white noise when connected to my PC, it was also present with my old Logitech speakers but not as much.

Reading past threads here, it seems like a DAC with optical input would remove the noise :
- Topping DX3 Pro+ for 220$ CAD (bonus : it comes with remote + bluetooth input + headphone output!)
- Topping E30 for 170$ CAD (bonus : remote)

Another suggestion, which seems a bit less safe, would be to use a dac with balanced outputs :
- Topping D10 Balanced for 150$ CAD.

Just found the safest ? and most expensive ...
- Topping E50 for 300$ CAD ... optical input + balanced outputs

DX3 Pro+ seems like the way to go, unless you think I should really go with Balanced Outputs ?
I don't get why Balanced Outputs is not standard on all ?

Thanks you!
Jp
 
Last edited:

RandomEar

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2022
Messages
333
Likes
770
Balanced plus optical for less:

Also, what you talk about sounds like a ground loop, but that wouldn't be white noise. White noise is closer to TV or radio static, a ground loop typically is more of a low hum. I think it's better to make sure what you are up against before randomly throwing new gear at the problem.
 

Lambda

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 22, 2020
Messages
1,785
Likes
1,519
DX3 Pro+ seems like the way to go, unless you think I should really go with Balanced Outputs ?
I don't get why Balanced Outputs is not standard on all ?
If you have balanced inputs on your amp/speaker you shuld go with a balanced dac!

DAC with optical input would remove the noise
Easy test for this:
Disconnect the DAC (usb) from the PC and turn the volume/gain all the way up.
If this helps, Optical will help.

Oh i see the jbl 305p mkII are Class l (with grounding) and so is your PC.
You shuld in general never connect Class l together with unbalanced cables or you inevitable create ground loops.
 

Lilith

Active Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2021
Messages
267
Likes
79
I got the jbl 305p mkII recently and I've that white noise when connected to my PC, it was also present with my old Logitech speakers but not as much.

Reading past threads here, it seems like a DAC with optical input would remove the noise :
- Topping DX3 Pro+ for 220$ CAD (bonus : it comes with remote + bluetooth input + headphone output!)
- Topping E30 for 170$ CAD (bonus : remote)

Another suggestion, which seems a bit less safe, would be to use a dac with balanced outputs :
- Topping D10 Balanced for 150$ CAD.

Just found the safest ? and most expensive ...
- Topping E50 for 300$ CAD ... optical input + balanced outputs

DX3 Pro+ seems like the way to go, unless you think I should really go with Balanced Outputs ?
I don't get why Balanced Outputs is not standard on all ?

Thanks you!
Jp

Do you hear CPU activtiy in the noise? What interface are you using?
 

Sokel

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 8, 2021
Messages
5,844
Likes
5,787
Usually playing with ASIO or WASAPI exclusive helps.What player to you use?
 

Lambda

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 22, 2020
Messages
1,785
Likes
1,519
The cheapest transparent way to connect Class l active speakers to a Class l PC.
~10-15$ USB Isolator
10-30$ Dongle DAC
photo5231051514494172838.jpg

The trick here is all the "long" cables can be 3pin "Balanced".(TRS to TRS or TRS to XLR)
Only the TRS to TS adapter part is unbalanced.
Of causes its is not perfect because there is impedance mismatch.
but the DAC has low output impedance so it is ok.
Many low end Audio interfaces internally just connect XLR "-" to ground and call it balanced out as well.


The best solution would of cause be a proper DAC with true balance and Symmetrical outputs and 4V RMS or more and Optical Input.
But Topping is not making many DACs with Optical in, instead they make a USB isolator

I would also consider the https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/smsl-do100-review-stereo-dac.34198/
 

Lilith

Active Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2021
Messages
267
Likes
79
I had PC noise with balanced connection. The solution was to power the interface with a powered USB hub.
 
OP
J

jpqc

Member
Joined
May 29, 2022
Messages
8
Likes
1
Do you hear CPU activtiy in the noise? What interface are you using?
it seems to be related to GPU or CPU activity somehow
I came across this post and I think I will give D10 Balanced a try first since it's the cheaper alternative ... but god I wish DX pro+ had balanced outputs
 

Chrispy

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
7,757
Likes
5,915
Location
PNW
The 305s have a bit of hiss of their own, too....
 

Offler

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
414
Likes
399
I would recommend optical SPDIF or wireless connection (Bluetooth AptX HD).

In my case, GPU is source of noise which changes depending on GPU load, and it went right through power supply to USB. It took many years after I found out that its a known issue of that PSU model, and I might supress it using ferrite chokes on PSU cables.
 

Lilith

Active Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2021
Messages
267
Likes
79
I would recommend optical SPDIF or wireless connection (Bluetooth AptX HD).

In my case, GPU is source of noise which changes depending on GPU load, and it went right through power supply to USB. It took many years after I found out that its a known issue of that PSU model, and I might supress it using ferrite chokes on PSU cables.
A powered Hub didn't help? The problem is that the ground of the motherboard is connected to the audio ground of the interface via the USB cable.
 

Lambda

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 22, 2020
Messages
1,785
Likes
1,519
A powered Hub didn't help? The problem is that the ground of the motherboard is connected to the audio ground of the interface via the USB cable.
A powered Hub helps some what. but the grounds are still connected, the Impedance is just a little bit higher.
This helps. but won’t isolate them completely.

t seems to be related to GPU or CPU activity somehow
I came across this post and I think I will give D10 Balanced a try first since it's the cheaper alternative ... but god I wish DX pro+ had balanced outputs
This is not unusually for PCs.
Is your cases painted and is the paint maybe avoiding that some of the main board screws are making proper contact to the cases?
Same for the power supply.

And especially the IO shield.
This is not only a cosmetic part but it is for EMI compliance.
crucially imported for this function is its proper low impedance grounding to the cases/main-board and power supply ground.
Sadly modern cases are often painted/coated preventing it from making proper contact.

If you know your PC makes EMI problems i would not go for a DAC without SPDIF in.

but god I wish DX pro+ had balanced outputs
Yes! i wish the D10S would have a SPDIF in. I don’t kbow why topping is making DACs with SPDIF out but no SPDIF in
 

Offler

Senior Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
414
Likes
399
A powered Hub didn't help? The problem is that the ground of the motherboard is connected to the audio ground of the interface via the USB cable.
I didnt tried back then tbh. 12v of the motherboard and 12v of the GPU are connected through PSU and the responsible module is faulty and does not filter noise coming from the inside of the PC/ from the component.

If I would be using Nvidia 3090, high frequency noise would reset my PC instead. Radeon VII creates noise in audible band instead.
 
OP
J

jpqc

Member
Joined
May 29, 2022
Messages
8
Likes
1
I would recommend optical SPDIF or wireless connection (Bluetooth AptX HD).

In my case, GPU is source of noise which changes depending on GPU load, and it went right through power supply to USB. It took many years after I found out that its a known issue of that PSU model, and I might supress it using ferrite chokes on PSU cables.
tx ! dx3 pro+ supports Aptx HD but it sounds like most phones and computers only support regular AptX ...
anyway, at least dx3 pro+ supports both bluetooth and it has a SPDIF input
find it a bit annoying to pay 300$ for something I feel my PC should be able to handle without any issue

to answer Lambda's question, yes my case is painted, that might be the issue but I feel too lazy to investigate ;p
 

KSTR

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 6, 2018
Messages
2,690
Likes
6,013
Location
Berlin, Germany
Topping D10 Balanced would be my recommendation. Plus an Topping USB isolator as it removes the actual root cause, not only dealing with the symptoms.
It doesn't get any better (more isolation) than this package for about $200 total.
 

MCH

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 10, 2021
Messages
2,581
Likes
2,199
Topping D10 Balanced would be my recommendation. Plus an Topping USB isolator as it removes the actual root cause, not only dealing with the symptoms.
It doesn't get any better (more isolation) than this package for about $200 total.
Maybe has been already asked, but, if you have a usb powered card with toslink out, is there any possibility of having either ground loop (i guess not) or either any of the other computer noise issues? Thanks
 
OP
J

jpqc

Member
Joined
May 29, 2022
Messages
8
Likes
1
Topping D10 Balanced would be my recommendation. Plus an Topping USB isolator as it removes the actual root cause, not only dealing with the symptoms.
It doesn't get any better (more isolation) than this package for about $200 total.
tx, I appreciate ;)
this being said, Topping USB Isolator is 90$ + D10 Balanced is 180$ ... total = 270$ CAD
so it was cheaper to get the DX3 Pro+ for 260$ CAD
got it within 24 hours from amazon.ca, installed it a few minutes ago, "white noise" is ... almost gone !
for now
, I plugged it using USB from pc to DAC, then I used TRS 3.5mm to 6.35mm (split) to connect from my DAC headphone out to speakers
there is still a bit of noise that seems but only when my mouse is next to the DAC so I will try another mouse later today and update my post
I could also move the DAC .. and I will try to use the DAC back input ports instead of the front port.

probably not the cheapest way but at least I got a DAC + AMP + Bluetooth receiver
 
Last edited:

Lambda

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 22, 2020
Messages
1,785
Likes
1,519
so it was cheaper to get the DX3 Pro+ for 260$ CAD
But the DX3 Pro+ has not balanced out?

I’m not sure whats the cheapest useful way to get balanced and isolated.
The cheapest transparent way to connect Class l active speakers to a Class l PC.
~10-15$ USB Isolator
10-30$ Dongle DAC
photo5231051514494172838.jpg
the method i showed is below 50$ and isolated but not balanced.

Is there a "dongle" with balanced out that works with 12mbit USB?
 
OP
J

jpqc

Member
Joined
May 29, 2022
Messages
8
Likes
1
No balanced output but my understanding is that balanced outputs can help prevent noise and other issues related to sound getting "corrupted" when travelling between 2 devices such as between dac and speakers because it has an extra wire to send a duplicate signal and the receiving end checks that both signal matches somehow ...

In my case, I guess this could have been nice to have but I don't think that this alone would have really helped since the problem probably came from the source (my pc) rather than the cable.

A cheaper solution for me could have been to plug Amazon Echo Dot and use it as a source for listening to music from Spotify instead of using my PC.
 

Lambda

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 22, 2020
Messages
1,785
Likes
1,519
If you don't care about balanced output you can get a 10€ Dongle DAC and an Cheap USB idolator as i described.

No balanced output but my understanding is that balanced outputs can help prevent noise and other issues related to sound getting "corrupted" when travelling between 2 devices such as between dac and speakers because it has an extra wire to send a duplicate signal and the receiving end checks that both signal matches somehow ...
Sure this is why it is nice to have. especially if you have a PC that is known to be noisy and has glas case so all the EMI/EMC noise radiate out freely.
But maybe it will be fine...

In my case, I guess this could have been nice to have but I don't think that this alone would have really helped since the problem probably came from the source (my pc) rather than the cable.
This would definitely help. but nothing gets rid of all the noise 100% the question is.
Is balanced alone sufficient to make it inaudible.
is isolation alone sufficient to make it inaudible.
What is alone more effective balanced or isolation. ( i would guess isolation)


A cheaper solution for me could have been to plug Amazon Echo Dot and use it as a source for listening to music from Spotify instead of using my PC.
Uses your phone or any player and put it right next to the PC but don’t conect it to the PC. turn the volume of the speakers all the way up.
Hear if there is any noise. ( this "simulates" a non balanced dac but with isolation) if this works fine you don’t need Balanced.
 
Top Bottom