To all the Sennheiser / Beyerdynamic Headphone Fanatics out there ! I have a budget of 400€ ($) to invest ...

[graz_lag]

for a Beyerdynamic DT1990 or a Sennheiser HD660s ...

After listening several tracks thru both of them this afternoon - back & forth, powered by my Beyerdynamic HBC1 DAC/amp, I am still confused and cannot decide which one I want to get ...

Feedback of any type will be very much appreciated !

My music genre habits : 80% Electric Blues 20% Jazz of all variants ... thru my AKG K701 ... owned and liked the Beyers DT770, 880, 990 in all declinations and Ohm-mage, as well as the AKG K702 ... never owned a Sennhy though - but I like the technological content of the Beyer's Tesla drivers ...)

I can play with some EQ via Foobar2K ... thank you @Patrick1958 ...

 

[solderdude]

AKG K701, Beyers DT770, 880, 990 in all declinations and Ohmage, as well as the AKG K702

These all have treble peaks.
Just like the DT1990 has.
Why did you sell or want to replace the ones mentioned above and what did you like about them ?

The HD660S does not have a treble peak and is tonally neutral.

What was your impression after the listening session ?

 

[graz_lag]

These all have treble peaks.
Just like the DT1990 has.
Why did you sell or want to replace the ones mentioned above and what did you like about them ?

The HD660S does not have a treble peak and is tonally neutral.

What was your impression after the listening session ?

The DT880 600Ohms was extremely good to my ears, the best within the DT770-880-990 trilogy ...
I would re-buy it on every day of the year but I am afraid to lose something in terms of technological development when compared to the Tesla models ...
Between the HD660s and DT1990 : no - I cannot decide, I could take either one (same $ budget) and live happy with it on a Caribbean Island for the rest of my life ...

Very recently, bought and sold after two days with a bit of luck ... the Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7, not my cup of tea at all, neither in terms of sound nor build quality, the latter was very poor indeed for a budget of 150€ ...

 

[graz_lag]

So, if the HD660s is classified - more or less, as neutral as the ATH-MSR7, I take the Beyer DT1990 ...
I did not feel it was more neutral than the DT1990 during my listening this afternoon though ... I have been using the Bypass mode on my Beyerdynamic HBC1 DAC/amp so the straight thru mode was active with no EQ or conversion at all within it's DAC section ...

 

[solderdude]

Have you tried the DT1990 with both supplied pads ?
One of them is more 'neutral' in the bass region than the other pad.
A luxury the HD660S does not have (tuning with supplied pads) unless one buys aftermarket pads.

There is always EQ.

The ATH-MSR7 is not neutral, some merely say/think it is.
The HD660S actually is tonally 'neutral'.
Similarish too DT880 (when the treble peak is EQ'ed out and some lows added) and HD600 but with better bass extension and quality than both DT880 and HD600.

Both DT1990 and HD660S sound 'good' to me. The DT1990 needs a fix in the treble for me.. the HD660S does not.

I once thought I had an original MSR7 but turned out to be a fake.
Did not know there were even fakes around of this model.
Would not have known when I did not have opened it and posted pics of the driver.
Now don't dare of buying one second hand or cheap...
The fake one was very bass shy and had no 'quality' to its sound but looked original.

 

[graz_lag]

Have you tried the DT1990 with both supplied pads ?
One of them is more 'neutral' in the bass region than the other pad.
A luxury the HD660S does not have (tuning with supplied pads) unless one buys aftermarket pads.

There is always EQ.

The ATH-MSR7 is not neutral, some merely say/think it is.
The HD660S actually is tonally 'neutral'.
Similarish too DT880 (when the treble peak is EQ'ed out and some lows added) and HD600 but with better bass extension and quality than both DT880 and HD600.

Both DT1990 and HD660S sound 'good' to me. The DT1990 needs a fix in the treble for me.. the HD660S does not.

I once thought I had an original MSR7 but turned out to be a fake.
Did not know there were even fakes around of this model.
Would not have known when I did not have opened it and posted pics of the driver.
Now don't dare of buying one second hand or cheap...
The fake one was very bass shy and had no 'quality' to its sound but looked original.

RE: DT1990. I have been trying them as they were setup in the auditorium - did not even know there were different pads available ... Will be calling them checking this point on Monday, thank you for bringing out to me ...
RE: MSR7. I have gone thru your review for the fake units, as well as thru some YouTube videos of it ... Mine were an original version without doubt on that, however they looked like a "toy" in terms of material quality when compared to the AKGs or the Beyers ... Another league, totally ... The 3.5mm socket for the detachable cable - as well as the cheapy plastic of the coconuts, are a joke in headphones worth 200€ RRP ...

For what it is worth, if I put one of my AKG K701 at 9 in a 0-10 virtual scale including all features, the MSR7s stand at 2.5 ...
Bought @ 105€ and sold @ 95€ on eBay after two days ... Thank you Santa Claus ...

 

[aleksander]

1990 has deeper earcup, two detachable cables, and two pairs of pads that sound different, I think it's a worthy upgrade to 880. I prefer the balance of 880/1990 over 600/6XX, still I need to eq down the treble peak at 7-8k using Solderdude's measurement. I tried to eq up HD600/6XX to sound similar to 880 with little success... I think at the end it comes down to what that person's preference is.

 

[SiW]

How does the 1990 Edition compare to the Pro version?

I assume the 1990 is a step up from the 1770 and not just being open vs closed design.

I’m having a similar internal argument myself but it also includes the HE400i.

Buying used from eBay in the UK so want to maximise my budget and move up from the NAD Viso phones I already have.

 

[solderdude]

AFAIK the DT1990 only exists in the 'Pro' version.

I think the DT1990 is an upgrade in sound opposite the DT990 but also has a treble peak.
All metal vs mostly plastic.

 

[Jorj]

Having picked up a used pair of Sennheiser HD800 recently, I'd strongly urge you to hang on to your euros and save just a little bit longer. These things are a revelation. So comfy. So resolving. If they are too sharp in the treble, they respond to a light touch of EQ marvelously. Plus, sorrodje, the inventor of the SD resonator mod (which turns them into a better HD800S), is from your area.

 

[garbulky]

Having picked up a used pair of Sennheiser HD800 recently, I'd strongly urge you to hang on to your euros and save just a little bit longer. These things are a revelation. So comfy. So resolving. If they are too sharp in the treble, they respond to a light touch of EQ marvelously. Plus, sorrodje, the inventor of the SD resonator mod (which turns them into a better HD800S), is from your area.

I believe it! I am looking forward to eventually getting a pair.

 

[SiW]

AFAIK the DT1990 only exists in the 'Pro' version.

I think the DT1990 is an upgrade in sound opposite the DT990 but also has a treble peak.
All metal vs mostly plastic.

Apologies I meant 990 Edition

Which order would you rate the 1990Pro, 1770Pro and 990 Edition?

 

[Jorj]

Honestly, you have to spend a LOT of money to exceed the capabilities of the venerable HD800. They are that good. The used market sees them going in the $650-750 USD range right now. I know this is outside your listed budget, @graz_lag, but I would be remiss to not say that euros spent on high quality transducers is almost never a mistake, and you're so close to having enough to get your hands on a pair.

 

[solderdude]

1990Pro, 1770Pro, DT990 Edition, DT990 Pro.
Not a fan of the DT770.
The DT880 is a bit lean for you (and me)

I agree about the HD800, cheapest 2nd hand I saw was 500 Euros though.
Have spent fortunes on trying different headphones and auditioned many.
In the end I always end up to liking my EQ'ed HD800 and wondered why I bought and sold so many 'side grades' over the years.

Stock HD800 isn't my thing though and can see people not liking it. Don't like mine without EQ either. Too thin and sharp.
In 'soundstage', pinpointing and separation of instruments, detailing and cleanliness of sound it is hard to beat it and need to go in the Sonoma territory or very expensive planar territory (>2k Euros)

Something interesting may be coming somewhere next year which may be right up your alley and in the upper echelon of your budget. It's still under development though.. but promising.
Sorry, can't say anything more about it.

 

[Jorj]

Since we're openly shilling for the HD800, don't forget how amazingly comfortable they are. I can and do wear mine for hours at a stretch, with glasses. I have sticky-outy ears, and the cavernous room inside these means they do not even touch the cans.

They don't travel well at all, and @graz_lag did not mention if he would be using them at home, during travel, at work, etc.

 

[Jorj]

Emulation simply fails to demonstrate what the HD800 does so well. It's the wavefront from that ring radiator. It's the distance and angle of the driver from the ear. It is the impulse response. Sennheiser did something magical with this headphone. Makes me wonder what their cost-is-no-object ESD sounds like.

The tonal signature is well known to be sub-optimal, but that imaging and spacious sound come from somewhere. Not a word of exaggeration, the first time I clamped on a pair, I knew in 10 seconds I had to have a pair of my own.

 

[SiW]

1990Pro, 1770Pro, DT990 Edition, DT990 Pro.
Not a fan of the DT770.
The DT880 is a bit lean for you (and me)

Many thanks

 

[Deleted member 4708]

Beyerdynamics 880/600 here and the Senny 650. Love them both - the perfect fix for me. One is slightly dark (HD 650) and one slightly bright.
To me these are no-nonsense headphones and they are clean. They're also used by the pros - or so I'm told.
I use the JRiver Media center and I have done some EQ for both - to my liking, trying to make them a bit more neutral.
The Beyer 880 DT / 600 is a Manufaktur - leather band, leather earpads, etc. I have them for 7 years or so. They held up very well. The Senny HD 650 otoh show wear and tear in less than 2 years and I only use them at home; my workhorse is the Beyer DT 880.
I tried the HD 800 and wasn't impressed. They are very comfortable but I didn't think they sound better than an EQ HD 650 - my opinion. For less than HD 800 you can get the Focal Elex and they have better lower frequency reproduction than both Beyer 880 / 600 and the Senny HD 650. They are my favorite headphones from the 3 I have. My absolute favorite is the Stax SR-009 but they are very expensive and you need a special amp that is also expensive. By the time I can afford it, probably I won't be able to tell the difference between them and the others I have

 

[garbulky]

Beyerdynamics 880/600 here and the Senny 650. Love them both - the perfect fix for me. One is slightly dark (HD 650) and one slightly bright.
To me these are no-nonsense headphones and they are clean. They're also used by the pros - or so I'm told.
I use the JRiver Media center and I have done some EQ for both - to my liking, trying to make them a bit more neutral.
The Beyer 880 DT / 600 is a Manufaktur - leather band, leather earpads, etc. I have them for 7 years or so. They held up very well. The Senny HD 650 otoh show wear and tear in less than 2 years and I only use them at home; my workhorse is the Beyer DT 880.
I tried the HD 800 and wasn't impressed. They are very comfortable but I didn't think they sound better than an EQ HD 650 - my opinion. For less than HD 800 you can get the Focal Elex and they have better lower frequency reproduction than both Beyer 880 / 600 and the Senny HD 650. They are my favorite headphones from the 3 I have. My absolute favorite is the Stax SR-009 but they are very expensive and you need a special amp that is also expensive. By the time I can afford it, probably I won't be able to tell the difference between them and the others I have

Interesting your comments on the HD800. I haven't tried the HD800 but always assumed they would dominate my HD600.

 

[Deleted member 4708]

Here are the measurements for HD 650:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD650.pdf
and here are the 800:
https://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD800B.pdf
It seems to me that HD 800 has clearly better bass (less noise in the lower frequencies) but they are also noisier in the mids.
The HD 800 have a nicer frequency response - no V shape around 4 (or 5) kHz but that's the part that can be corrected in HD 650 with some EQ.
All in all - I am not a fan of the HD 800 or the more expensive HD 800s because imo they do not have lower noise in the critical listening section (200Hz to 8kHz). My 2c - I could be way off / etc. Not looking to annoy anybody owning the HD 800; if you own them - enjoy and ignore me.