Tired of my sound bar. Not sure what to get.

[NJTSuperKing]

Before you spend any money, have you explored the equalizer settings of your current soundbar? Very possible that when you bought it, it only came with a Quick Start guide, not the full manual. I've linked to it below: Page 18 has the relevant info, including settings specifically for dialog. Very possible that boosting Dialogue and Center, and reducing Subwoofer, Bass and Treble will get you what you want.
https://cdn.vizio.com/misc/KBImages/models/M512a/2021_M512-H6_UM-ENG.pdf

I did play around with the EQ setting, specifically boosting and reducing the ones you mentioned. Unfortunately, it didn't help.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Well, first I would be careful of your expectations. Not a few but MANY going on MOST movies now have terrible dialog which is intentionally low compared to the music and sound effects. So, none of that is fixable. Also, I would recommend an inexpensive AVR that fits your budget and a good set of Polk or similar priced ASR reviewed speakers. Spending more money on speakers will NOT get you what you are looking for. Any ASR reviewed speakers that are highly recommended will do. Most ASR folks get all wrapped up in insignificant details. So, you can try to fix your system but don't expect it to be amazing. It might be a lot better and that is hopefully what you get! Good luck on your search. Oh and welcome to ASR!

 

[NJTSuperKing]

Well, first I would be careful of your expectations. Not a few but MANY going on MOST movies now have terrible dialog which is intentionally low compared to the music and sound effects. So, none of that is fixable. Also, I would recommend an inexpensive AVR that fits your budget and a good set of Polk or similar priced ASR reviewed speakers. Spending more money on speakers will NOT get you what you are looking for. Any ASR reviewed speakers that are highly recommended will do. Most ASR folks get all wrapped up in insignificant details. So, you can try to fix your system but don't expect it to be amazing. It might be a lot better and that is hopefully what you get! Good luck on your search. Oh and welcome to ASR!

Well, I at least feel reassured by this. I've talked to so many people about how dialogue in media has gotten worse over the past few years and no one agreed. I felt very gaslit haha.

It's unfortunate but I definitely appreciate the advise. I think it will help point me in the right direction that you and others have pointed out the state of dialogue in media. And it helps me set correct expectations.

Do you have any opinion one way or the other on having a dedicated center channel for dialogue, or going with phantom center? Wondering if I should go with Wiim Amp Ultra.

 

[dtaylo1066]

KEF Coda W are also quite nice, but you would have to add a WiiM Pro or Mini to stream.

 

[Redacted]

I have friends with soundbars for TVs, and heard a few (albeit in shops), and while they are far better than TV speakers, I can't say I thought even the pricey ones were good.

I had 5.1 AVRs in the past but they were terrible for normal stereo music, but they have got a lot better - and more expensive. I make do for multi channel sound on videos with the stereo PCM that my TV generates into my streamer. AFAIK, the mix down to stereo usually follows a fixed formula of so many percent from each of the channels, and I've not come across a TV that lets you adjust that mix...

I often find the dialogue muddy or drowned out by background noise on films in particular. My local TV (FreeSat & FreeView) always seems to have clear dialogue as its audio transmitted in stereo - although I have not verified that. Maybe their mixdown for multi-channel sources is a lot more sophisticated? American films are the worst - maybe dialogue is less important in US, or maybe the most popular actors like to mumble, or maybe I'm culturally conditioned to tune in better to other accents. Curiously, French & German films seem to have clear dialogue like British films do, even if it's all multichannel. Who knows?

Anyway my stereo is crystal clear - to my ears, so I did some tests on ripped videos that had poor multi-channel audio. I put together scripts that processed the audio in ffmpeg, and tried varying the percentages of how much from each channel to use for a stereo mixdown. A fun rathole to slither down on a wet sunday. I did find I could improve dialogue intelligibility quite a bit. Stereo EQ didn't help much in my case.

My conclusion was that while the source can definitely be poor (even a good AV system may not be enough), some of the intelligibility is lost, in my case, by the stereo mix-down. Having satisfied myself I'm not too deaf or loony yet, I now leave it be, and accept some films are a bit difficult. If I was to do an improvement, it'd be to buy a cheap AV amp and basic centre and rear speakers, but keep my main stereo amp and speakers (and subs) to play the L & R channels (this keeping the music playback the same as I enjoy now).

 

[Eric Natural]

TL;DR: I’m a complete novice . . .
What would you recommend for a straightforward 3.0 setup that prioritizes clear dialogue?

Apple TV and your 3 other HDMI devices > DD+ capable AVR with calibration mic (brand ?) > 3 identical passive bookshelf speakers from one of the suggested brands above.
Best of Luck

 

[Chrispy]

Better speakers than a soundbar sound like where you should be aiming, but can you accommodate the speakers or is space limited to just a soundbar? As to the dialog quality in movies, a few things are out there to support your thoughts. Try one of these perhaps https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dialog+issues+with+movies&atb=v544-5gl&ia=videos&iax=videos

 

[Spkrdctr]

Well, I at least feel reassured by this. I've talked to so many people about how dialogue in media has gotten worse over the past few years and no one agreed. I felt very gaslit haha.

It's unfortunate but I definitely appreciate the advise. I think it will help point me in the right direction that you and others have pointed out the state of dialogue in media. And it helps me set correct expectations.

Do you have any opinion one way or the other on having a dedicated center channel for dialogue, or going with phantom center? Wondering if I should go with Wiim Amp Ultra.

If you can get a dedicated center channel then go for it. It will make the front three L/C/R all come together. You can then individually adjust the volume levels of each speaker so they blend well. Then if you have a sub you will for all intents and purposes be all done. It will blow away your old soundbar. The Wiim products seem to be a very good deal. I myself was looking at the Pro or the Ultra. I wish I was buying a set up right now. The Fosi, Wiim and Topping units are all pretty darn good. It has now gotten down to features. Buy the unit that has the features you want. Like room correction, volume adjustment for each speaker, EQ controls, 12 volt trigger and such. I know whatever you end up with you will be happy with.

 

[NJTSuperKing]

If you can get a dedicated center channel then go for it. It will make the front three L/C/R all come together. You can then individually adjust the volume levels of each speaker so they blend well. Then if you have a sub you will for all intents and purposes be all done. It will blow away your old soundbar. The Wiim products seem to be a very good deal. I myself was looking at the Pro or the Ultra. I wish I was buying a set up right now. The Fosi, Wiim and Topping units are all pretty darn good. It has now gotten down to features. Buy the unit that has the features you want. Like room correction, volume adjustment for each speaker, EQ controls, 12 volt trigger and such. I know whatever you end up with you will be happy with.

That makes sense about the features. And I think that is what is tripping me up now. When I first started looking into all of this, I thought the solution was a dedicated center for dialogue. But now that I know I wasn't imagining the poor audio mixing in recent media, I feel like I'm back to square one trying to figure out what features will help with my particular problem.

With an AVR, I like the idea of having multiple HDMI ports since I do have to rotate devices from time to time. I also like the ability to have a center channel and the option to add more down the line if I decide that's the route I want.

But I've also heard great things from multiple people about the WiiM Amp Ultra. They've said that they've never experienced any issues understanding dialogue and that a pair of quality L/R speakers in combination with the right WiiM settings create a great phantom center.

But then there are just as many people saying AVR + three channels is the right approach for the dialogue issue because it offers more control over the tracks (not sure if that's the correct term) in the mix.

 

[Timcognito]

Don't rule out a better sound bar with subwoofer and surround satellites. Just saying as simple upgrade not promoting.

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www.rtings.com

 

[Chrispy]

That makes sense about the features. And I think that is what is tripping me up now. When I first started looking into all of this, I thought the solution was a dedicated center for dialogue. But now that I know I wasn't imagining the poor audio mixing in recent media, I feel like I'm back to square one trying to figure out what features will help with my particular problem.

With an AVR, I like the idea of having multiple HDMI ports since I do have to rotate devices from time to time. I also like the ability to have a center channel and the option to add more down the line if I decide that's the route I want.

But I've also heard great things from multiple people about the WiiM Amp Ultra. They've said that they've never experienced any issues understanding dialogue and that a pair of quality L/R speakers in combination with the right WiiM settings create a great phantom center.

But then there are just as many people saying AVR + three channels is the right approach for the dialogue issue because it offers more control over the tracks (not sure if that's the correct term) in the mix.

Soundbars don't particularly have good center speakers, nor even many horizontal centers. Try this article to start perhaps https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/center-channel-designs-1

 

[Spkrdctr]

That makes sense about the features. And I think that is what is tripping me up now. When I first started looking into all of this, I thought the solution was a dedicated center for dialogue. But now that I know I wasn't imagining the poor audio mixing in recent media, I feel like I'm back to square one trying to figure out what features will help with my particular problem.

With an AVR, I like the idea of having multiple HDMI ports since I do have to rotate devices from time to time. I also like the ability to have a center channel and the option to add more down the line if I decide that's the route I want.

But I've also heard great things from multiple people about the WiiM Amp Ultra. They've said that they've never experienced any issues understanding dialogue and that a pair of quality L/R speakers in combination with the right WiiM settings create a great phantom center.

But then there are just as many people saying AVR + three channels is the right approach for the dialogue issue because it offers more control over the tracks (not sure if that's the correct term) in the mix.

You have narrowed you decision down to the important issue. AVR with a real center channel or stereo with a phantom center channel. My opinion is the real center gives you control and a real center channel. Phantom center will not have the effect of a real center with left and right. So it will come down to what you can afford and what gives you the most features that are important to you! Good Luck and let us know what you end up getting.