Tips and advices for choosing reputable brands.

[Deleted member 77673]

Hi guys, a friend of mine, an energy engineer, asked me for help building his first high-quality audio system. The maximum budget is $6,000-$7,000 (used devices are ok for him). It would consist of a DAC, an integrated amplifier (no tubes), speakers, and, of course, cables. A simple system. Powered speakers are also an option. The room is 20 square meters, has average absorption, and is brick-built, not wood-built. What brands and models do you recommend?

 

[Beave]

A couple more details needed about what he wants:

1. Does he want tower speakers or bookshelf speakers on stands?

2. Will he be using a subwoofer or two, or none at all?

 

[Mnyb]

streaming ? room EQ ?

Where are you localy ? Buy stuff from alocal dealer you can talk to or slamm the broken product unto his desk if needed
or a reputable online dealer know for good support ?

 

[Deleted member 77673]

We are in Italy, Tuscany.
1 - Tower speakers (no sub for now)
2 - The idea is to use a dedicated notebook with a usb dac; he has a good collection of CD, so he'll rip to hard disk.
3 - No room EQ (for now) - maybe later
What do You think?

 

[gwing]

It's always nice to spend someone else's money


My recommendation (not that I use either of these) for simple while giving away nothing in sound quality goes to a Wiim Ultra paired with some Genelec speakers, say the 8341A if happy to go towards the top of the budget.

For cables you'll just need a simple TOSLINK cable, no need for anything expensive. Get whatever seems well made and robust for a tenner or so, they'll all sound the same.

 

[rf1938]

Rosso Florentino is in Florence and make terrific speakers - may be above your budget, but worth exploring. They're based in a castle, and have a performance space as well. Founded by two folks who are passionate about music and quality. Great sound and a wide range of products.

 

[Multicore]

KEF speakers and a Yamaha A-S801.

 

[kemmler3D]

KEF LS60 + 2 good subs would be in this budget.

 

[Multicore]

We are in Italy, Tuscany.

We are envious.

1 - Tower speakers (no sub for now)

Like Kemler said: KEF LS60.

2 - The idea is to use a dedicated notebook with a usb dac; he has a good collection of CD, so he'll rip to hard disk.

Should work. Yamaha A-S801 has a USB Type-B connector so you can plug the laptop straight into that.

A-S801 also has bass, treble, balance and loudness knobs. And a remote control. The bass and treble are needed to compensate errors in the recordings. Balance is obvious. Loudness is important for listening at anything less than loud.

3 - No room EQ (for now) - maybe later

On a laptop computer it's easy to add when you like.

What do You think?

We are envious.

 

[DVDdoug]

If possible I'd recommend going to an audio/video retailer with him just to listen to different speakers. If you don't buy from them it will still be educational. Speakers will sound different in a different room but it will help to understand what different speakers can sound like.

The idea is to use a dedicated notebook with a usb dac

The DAC (soundcard/soundchip) built into the notebook is probably better than human hearing. And/or many "modern" integrated amps (and receivers) have digital inputs (a built-in DAC).

BTW - Receivers are generally a better value than integrated amps. Integrated amps (and preamps) are more of a specialty item, produced in smaller quantities and sold into a less competitive market.

Powered speakers are also an option.

You may still want a preamp (or integrated amp or receiver) with preamp outputs as a "control center" with knobs and maybe remote control, etc.

"Traditional" hi-fi and home theater speakers are passive, except for the subwoofer.

Studio monitors are usually active and they are usually sold where musical instruments and pro audio equipment is sold. Monitors usually have a different appearance and no protective grill.

With an active monitor speaker the manufacturer can build-in active EQ to improve/correct frequency response (and they often do) but of course that doesn't mean every active speaker/monitor is better than every passive speaker.

and is brick-built, not wood-built.

That doesn't make much difference to the sound inside the room. It's the surface and furnishings (and dimensions) that make the difference. A wood surface looks softer but it reflects about the same as brick.

of course, cables.

Just don't waste money on expensive cables or speaker wires. Even speaker wire from the home improvement store is fine and 16AWG copper works for the "short" speaker runs in most home setups. It's just the resistance that's important and less resistance is better (to a point). Total resistance is a combination of gauge (thicker, lower gauge wire, has less resistance) and length. where resistance is proportional to length.

Are Cheap RCA Cables Any Good?

 

[Multicore]

Cables? Yes! You need a USB cable and two loudspeaker cables. These need not be expensive. The expensive seldom work worse than the cheap ones and never better. So save on those for the nice Tuscan food and wine.

 

[DVDdoug]

A-S801 also has bass, treble, balance and loudness knobs.

Those are nice features! It's easier to adjust a knob than mess-around with software controls. And loudness compensation has become rare. Loudness compensation compensates for that fact that when we turn down the volume it sounds like the bass has been turned-down more. (Equal Loudness Curves)

 

[IngMishael]

Hi guys, a friend of mine, an energy engineer, asked me for help building his first high-quality audio system. The maximum budget is $6,000-$7,000 (used devices are ok for him). It would consist of a DAC, an integrated amplifier (no tubes), speakers, and, of course, cables. A simple system. Powered speakers are also an option. The room is 20 square meters, has average absorption, and is brick-built, not wood-built. What brands and models do you recommend?

get this speaker pair - https://hifight.it/prodotto/mofi-sourcepoint-10-diffusori-monitor-high-end/

get this DLBC capable DAC/Pre/streamer with subwoofer connections - https://www.audioimpact.it/gb/phono..._xZA7W2kzxrmtDgywOO7FXHz1hLhkCyFDsJZ-FwaA-6-o

and get this power amp - https://apollonaudio.com/product/purifi-1et9040ba-dm-dual-mono-stereo-amplifier/

Under the option for the power amp select these:

• Mains Voltage - 180 – 264V
  -
• OP Amplifier Selection - OPA 1656
  -
• Output Connection - Apollon Pure OFC Binding posts
  -
• Extended warranty - Extend your 2 year warranty to 5 years - 199.00€

and for XLR cables to link the Onkyo to the Power amp, get two of this - https://www.amazon.it/-/en/WORLDS-BEST-CABLES-Gotham-Neutrik/dp/B09RMP9Y5P

 

[Deleted member 77673]

I'm torn between the DAC + amp with integrated DAC + passive speakers approach vs. a digital chain + active speakers. I have more personal experience with the former. My friend doesn't use Spotify or anything like that; he has a good CD collection. If I were to integrate room equalization one day, could you explain how the chain works?
Genelec monitors are nice; also the Andrew jones's speakers.

 

[IngMishael]

I'm torn between the DAC + amp with integrated DAC + passive speakers approach vs. a digital chain + active speakers. I have more personal experience with the former. My friend doesn't use Spotify or anything like that; he has a good CD collection. If I were to integrate room equalization one day, could you explain how the chain works?
Genelec monitors are nice; also the Andrew jones's speakers.

alright since I rec'd the Andrew Jones, Onkyo Pre/DAC/Streamer, Power amp setup.

The chain will look like this:

Onkyo Icon P80 -----> via XLR cables I have linked into the XLR inputs of -----> Purifi Power Amp -----> which then outputs to the Sourcepoint 10s via speaker cables (I didn't link those)

a subwoofer will then be able to be added to the Icon via the subwoofer output on the Icon P80 with subwoofer cable (didn't like those)
DSP, subwwoofer integration is done via DIRAC DLBC and DIRAC Live
CD Player will be connected to the P80 via HDMI, Coax or Optical depending on what the CD player digital outs are or via RCA outs if you wanna use the DAC onboard the CD Player

 

[Bland_username42069]

there is always the possibility of paying a pointless premium to buy a Tuscan stereo from Goldnote

 

[gwing]

I'm torn between the DAC + amp with integrated DAC + passive speakers approach vs. a digital chain + active speakers. I have more personal experience with the former. My friend doesn't use Spotify or anything like that; he has a good CD collection. If I were to integrate room equalization one day, could you explain how the chain works?
Genelec monitors are nice; also the Andrew jones's speakers.

I'm going to call it 'room correction' here to avoid any confusion with simple 'equalisation' using PEQ filters or traditional tone controls. If you did actually mean simple equalisation please say and we can respond appropriately.

If you choose the Wiim Ultra (or even one of the cheaper Wiims) you have the whole audio chain integrated in it so you just tick the 'Room |Correction' option in the menu and push the button to have it measure and set up your room corrections which will also help to flatten your speaker response if that isn't already perfect. On the Wiim room correction covers both digital output to active speakers and analogue output to power amp and passive speakers so again you have no chain to consider.

For other not-fully-integrated solutions where you implement room correction is going to depend on what audio chain and devices you choose but the general principle is:
1) As room correction is digital processing put the room correction (and/or eq) into your chain before the signal gets converted to analogue.
2) But put it as late in the chain as late as you can so that it is available for as many sources as possible. Ideally in the speakers themselves if they are active and have this function, for passive speakers in the DAC if your DAC has that facility. The worst place to put it is in the source itself as that will limit its use to just that single source.

 

[gwing]

Those are nice features! It's easier to adjust a knob than mess-around with software controls. And loudness compensation has become rare. Loudness compensation compensates for that fact that when we turn down the volume it sounds like the bass has been turned-down more. (Equal Loudness Curves)

Yes! Wouldn't it be nice if we had hardware controls for tone curves like that on a DAC or wherever our digital processing is being done. Even nicer if there were a few knobs that we could map to arbitrarily adjust whichever curve/parameter we wanted.

 

[Deleted member 77673]

We are envious.


Like Kemler said: KEF LS60.


Should work. Yamaha A-S801 has a USB Type-B connector so you can plug the laptop straight into that.

A-S801 also has bass, treble, balance and loudness knobs. And a remote control. The bass and treble are needed to compensate errors in the recordings. Balance is obvious. Loudness is important for listening at anything less than loud.


On a laptop computer it's easy to add when you like.


We are envious.

Thanks for the answers guys... Yamaha A-S801 is a good choice, I read the specs and it seems a solid product, with a useful loudness control. So in this case the chain should be: laptop to USB dac in the Yamaha to the passive speakers. It's true, Tuscany is a wonderful region, there's little to say.

 

[Deleted member 77673]

alright since I rec'd the Andrew Jones, Onkyo Pre/DAC/Streamer, Power amp setup.

The chain will look like this:

Onkyo Icon P80 -----> via XLR cables I have linked into the XLR inputs of -----> Purifi Power Amp -----> which then outputs to the Sourcepoint 10s via speaker cables (I didn't link those)

a subwoofer will then be able to be added to the Icon via the subwoofer output on the Icon P80 with subwoofer cable (didn't like those)
DSP, subwwoofer integration is done via DIRAC DLBC and DIRAC Live
CD Player will be connected to the P80 via HDMI, Coax or Optical depending on what the CD player digital outs are or via RCA outs if you wanna use the DAC onboard the CD Player

Is there difference in quality between DIRAC in hardware mode vs software installed on a laptop?