• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Time to choose speakers after some narrowing down...

OP
R

Roy_L

Active Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2019
Messages
165
Likes
93
Location
Haifa, IL
Well, after some digging, I actually found measurements of the 20i! I don't know the credentials of whoever made them, and it's not in English- one is from a Czech site (as in Czech Republic) and one in German (Google Translate is a great thing):


Can anyone help make out these measurements in plain English?
 

Cote Dazur

Active Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2022
Messages
252
Likes
186
Well, this would require to delve more into psychology, won't it? So, I've been changing speakers on and off for about 20 years, why stop now? ;)

Anyway, the Polks are very good, but I did have better ones before (although not in this room). I don't expect any magic, just a little more- clarity, bass and attack.
No, no delving in the subconscious, although now that you are mentioning it.:D
I was asking more in trying to understand your expectations. You already addressed some of your room limitations with attempt in absorption and dispersion, so you already understand more than most. Your speaker & seat position is limited with the space they have to be in, better speaker & seat position would allow for better clarity, bass and attack.

Assuming, I have been involve in this hobby, longer than you, my experience is that the recordings rule everything, then second, come the room/speaker & seat position as in what makes the big differences, then every thing else very distant third.

If you had the space and was thinking into getting speakers with very extended frequency reponse to take advantage of a large space where you can play loud, then it is an other conversation, but, you have a small space with neighbors.
In my experience, a side step, is never the answer to anything, as soon enough you will end up exactly where you started from and regret spending the money.

On the other hand, if what gives you pleasure in life is spending money on non consequential items, knock yourself out, I even wish you get speakers you don't even like, so you can have pleasure in buying some more sooner than later.:D
 
OP
R

Roy_L

Active Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2019
Messages
165
Likes
93
Location
Haifa, IL
BTW, this Czech site is great! Check out the Polk R500 & R600 measurements (the R200's larger siblings):

 

Chromatischism

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
3,675
Likes
2,730
Following the discussion below:

I've decided it's finally time to make a choice, and narrowed it down to 3 options. As you can see it the picture below, my living room is rather small, so I think a pair of floorstanders won't be ideal. Also, the current Polk R200 provide respectable bass and attack. I would appreciate some more, but not much. I don't think the room can handle much more (maybe in the nest apartment...).

So...

Option 1: BMR monitors. The problem- shipping + taxes may pump the price to unreasonable levels (I've contacted Salk sound, don't know the quote yet, but not optimistic). If the price stays reasonable, it's a serious contender. The plus for me, on top of great measurements, is the extra bass and attack compared to regular 2 way 6.5 inch Bookshelf speakers.

Option 2: The budget option, Revel M106. According to every indication, I just can't go wrong with them. Caveat- may not provide the extra bass and attack I want compared to the Polks. However, they're probably generally better. Also, given the price (I can even get a discount, a friend of mine is a dealer)- it's very tempting.

Option 3: The expensive option, Dynaudio Contour 20i. I can get a good price from my dealer friend, but they are still very expensive. I have very good experience with Dynaudio (owned the old contour 3.4 and loved it). However, I couldn't find any measurements of the 20i, only of the 20 in Stereophile (which were good but not great, if I understood correctly). Possible advantages- the tweeters are great; Also, it's a bigger speaker (larger volume) with a bigger woofer (7.1 inch). From experience, Dynaudio's woofers can handle a lot of power and produce great SPL without ever bottoming. So probably this one can punch lower and harder, emphasis on "probably" because I have no experience with Revel. Problem- price, that needs to be justified (within the law of diminishing return).

I'd appreciate any concrete thoughts.


View attachment 207028
I have a different question.

What is the width of the room?

If it's at least 10 feet, every speaker you try will sound a lot better if you rotate your furniture 90° and put the audio below the curtains.
 
OP
R

Roy_L

Active Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2019
Messages
165
Likes
93
Location
Haifa, IL
The speakers are also used for movies (there's a projector there), and sound great in their location anyway.
 

amper42

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 21, 2020
Messages
1,172
Likes
1,549
And 2 more pics of my living room in daylight:

View attachment 207122

View attachment 207121

As you can see in the pics (I hope), I really think there is no need for big floorstanders. I'm not saying it can't be done, what I'm saying is that I'm not sure that in this room there's any benefit from the added SPL multiple drivers can provide. A pair of 2way (2 driver) floorstanders was totally an option, but I just couldn't find anything I really wanted.

(BTW, an absorber behind the right speaker didn't seem to do much, that's why there is none)


(p.s.- for those of you with sharp eyes, don't worry about the poster with the cat and the Swastika in the back. It's a poster I found thrown in the street in Sweden, about a demonstration against neo-nazis. I loved it so much I had it framed and placed on the wall. Yes, I did talk about it with my wife. And with my therapist. Didn't help. :p)

Your room is screaming for a pair of BMR's. I have the rosewood BMR monitors and black BMR Towers in another room. In your particular room either finish would look great and your seating is an optimal distance for BMR Monitors. At $1700 plus shipping they are a great deal and you will love the fantastic low bass extension they offer. Email Dennis Murphy at [email protected] and get your pair now. I really enjoy mine. You will too. :D


BMR-smaller.jpg
 

Kevin1956

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2020
Messages
12
Likes
28
Location
Woodstock, Md.
Does your dealer friend have any floor standing tower speakers of about the same footprint of your current bookshelves and stands that would fit your budget, have measurements that you find suitable and that you could actually try in your room before purchasing? If so, you gain the added benefit of patronizing the business of a friend while improving your audio/video experience thru the potential extended bandwidth of a floor standing loudspeaker.
 

Sonny1

Active Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
199
Likes
280
Another vote for the BMR’s. They are beautiful and well designed speakers. I’m trying hard not to buy a pair myself. Good luck.
 

AdamG247

Strive to be Understood, rather than heard!
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
2,502
Likes
6,192
Do others at ASR occasionally question participant's motives when branddropping, namedropping, subtle-to-blatant marketing support seems to be the very lifeblood od many posts here? We all, me included, have allengiances, biases, to the breakthrough speaker in our audio journey, the DIY or kit build we did, maybe even the crystal radio we had in our youth (if you're old enough to know). All I know is I'll be dreaming "Dennis" or "Dennis", or maybe even "Dennis" tonight after reading all 2+ pages of this forum. (Maybe tomorrow, if I can get a good night's sleep tonight, I'll re-revisit the KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced thread where KEF elitism seems to be in lifeblood there.)
If you don’t like reading a thread where members openly share their joy of certain products, you sir may well be in the wrong place. The only advertising we permit here, is our cherished members personal recommendations and experiences. That is part of the bond of this community. Understanding this and the fact that we are beholden to no company or manufacturer. Should set your mind at ease. Participate with this in mind or move along and find a place that better suits your tastes. Saying you will loose sleep over something someone on the internet said is a touch hyperbolic :facepalm:
 

Marc v E

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
420
Likes
469
Location
The Netherlands (Holland)
Following the discussion below:

I've decided it's finally time to make a choice, and narrowed it down to 3 options. As you can see it the picture below, my living room is rather small, so I think a pair of floorstanders won't be ideal. Also, the current Polk R200 provide respectable bass and attack. I would appreciate some more, but not much. I don't think the room can handle much more (maybe in the nest apartment...).

So...

Option 1: BMR monitors. The problem- shipping + taxes may pump the price to unreasonable levels (I've contacted Salk sound, don't know the quote yet, but not optimistic). If the price stays reasonable, it's a serious contender. The plus for me, on top of great measurements, is the extra bass and attack compared to regular 2 way 6.5 inch Bookshelf speakers.

Option 2: The budget option, Revel M106. According to every indication, I just can't go wrong with them. Caveat- may not provide the extra bass and attack I want compared to the Polks. However, they're probably generally better. Also, given the price (I can even get a discount, a friend of mine is a dealer)- it's very tempting.

Option 3: The expensive option, Dynaudio Contour 20i. I can get a good price from my dealer friend, but they are still very expensive. I have very good experience with Dynaudio (owned the old contour 3.4 and loved it). However, I couldn't find any measurements of the 20i, only of the 20 in Stereophile (which were good but not great, if I understood correctly). Possible advantages- the tweeters are great; Also, it's a bigger speaker (larger volume) with a bigger woofer (7.1 inch). From experience, Dynaudio's woofers can handle a lot of power and produce great SPL without ever bottoming. So probably this one can punch lower and harder, emphasis on "probably" because I have no experience with Revel. Problem- price, that needs to be justified (within the law of diminishing return).

I'd appreciate any concrete thoughts.


View attachment 207028
To be honest, I would recommend against upgrading speakers. I looked up the spinorama of the r200 and it can't find much to critisize.

Instead, I would focus on room accoustics and eq (Rew). First experiment with rew and a measuring microphone to see what's really going on and what can be improved.
From my own limited experience I would expect 4 points of improvement:
1) keeping the couch from the wall or sound absorbtion material behind it
2) curtains on the side wall from ceiling to floor
3) eq with rew
4) add a subwoofer and minidsp flex to keep distortion in your speakers lower.

Anyway, that's what I would do.
You could experiment with rew and a microphone for a modest outlay of about 100,-
 
Last edited:

Marc v E

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
420
Likes
469
Location
The Netherlands (Holland)
I have a different question.

What is the width of the room?

If it's at least 10 feet, every speaker you try will sound a lot better if you rotate your furniture 90° and put the audio below the curtains.
This is very good advice imo. The room has more influence on the sound the OP experiences than the speakers.
 
OP
R

Roy_L

Active Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2019
Messages
165
Likes
93
Location
Haifa, IL
Can't your dealer friend loan the Revels to compare to your Polks in your room? Nothing you read here will teach you as much.

I wish. It's a "take it or leave it" favor. He has no such speakers on display, he does architectural installations etc. He works with audio brands mostly for their in wall speakers.
 
OP
R

Roy_L

Active Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2019
Messages
165
Likes
93
Location
Haifa, IL
Can anyone comment on the measurements I found? It's no spinorama, but I'm sure it's useful.

The Contour 20i measurements:


For reference, measurements of well known speakers also measured elsewhere:

Kef LS50 Meta:

Kef R3:

My very own Polk R200:

The Polk L200 (BTW, FR looks very similar to the R200 but smoother):

From my untrained eye, I think the 20i measure pretty well. I can see the bump at about 13Khz, but a toe out of 30 degrees seem to subside that. However, I'm no, uh... graph expert...?
 
Last edited:

thewas

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
4,497
Likes
10,082
Can anyone comment on the measurements I found? It's no spinorama, but I'm sure it's useful.
Unfortunately the measurements of that magazine don't tell much as they are taking at normal (and different) listening rooms without windowing and other techniques to remove the room influence and usually just on-axis and at 30°.

More meaningful measurements of the Contour 20 "pre-facelift without i" can be found though at https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-contour-20-loudspeaker-measurements
 
OP
R

Roy_L

Active Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2019
Messages
165
Likes
93
Location
Haifa, IL
Thanks! that's a bummer. I thought I found something useful. I know the Stereophile measurements, but it's not the same speaker (different tweeter at least). So it's back to guesswork, I guess... :rolleyes:
 

Marc v E

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
420
Likes
469
Location
The Netherlands (Holland)
Thanks! that's a bummer. I thought I found something useful. I know the Stereophile measurements, but it's not the same speaker (different tweeter at least). So it's back to guesswork, I guess... :rolleyes:
No, it doesn't have to. You can measure the response of your own speakers. That way you'll have a baseline to see if you get an improvement and work from there. Otherwise I agee it's just guesswork.

Please take a listen to this example to get an idea what you can achieve:
 
OP
R

Roy_L

Active Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2019
Messages
165
Likes
93
Location
Haifa, IL
That's nice, but the idea is to find reliable measurements *before* buying the speakers...
 

Marc v E

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2021
Messages
420
Likes
469
Location
The Netherlands (Holland)
I understand what you mean.

Even before that step, measuring what you have now will be of great help.
You will probably see a frequency response that is way different than what the anechoic measurement of your speaker says. That will also happen when you get new speakers. And that's also why I recomended Rew because its free and a measurement microphone like the umik 1 (which is not free but costs a little).
 

fineMen

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2021
Messages
453
Likes
149
.. don't think the room can handle much more (maybe in the nest apartment...).
The seating position seems to be close to the backwall. That would lift the bass/lower mids a lot, kind of a "loudness" effect..

Option 1: BMR monitors. The problem- ...
Me thinks the main distinctive advantage of the BMRs, as people tell, is the very wide horizontal, but in the treble quite to extremely narrow dispersion vertically. In that room the asymmetry left / right may react sensitive to this feature. The sofa looks like You were "normal" in that You don't sit like a broomstick while listening to music. So, the specialised vertical dispersion would pose something else than a benefit.

Option 2: The budget option, Revel M106. According to every indication, I just can't go wrong with them. Caveat- may not provide the extra bass and attack I want compared to the Polks. However, they're probably generally better. Also, given the price (I can even get a discount, a friend of mine is a dealer)- it's very tempting.
You could add a pair of woofers ( not a "sub" ) later, using a digital cross-over and proper equalisation--see the nasty 'backwall' thing.

Option 3: The expensive option, Dynaudio ...
Is it an option compared to the Revels? Of course the Revels aren't my cup of tea regarding the exalted looks. And the price. Dynaudio fell out of my favour once the "new" factor declined, decades back in time ;-)
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom