Time to choose speakers after some narrowing down...

[Roy_L]

Well, after some digging, I actually found measurements of the 20i! I don't know the credentials of whoever made them, and it's not in English- one is from a Czech site (as in Czech Republic) and one in German (Google Translate is a great thing):

Erster Test Dynaudio Contour 20i: die Messlatte noch höher gelegt - LowBeats

Anfang 2020 hat Dynaudio seine Contour-Serie auf den i-Status gebracht. Aus Contour 20 wurde also Dy

www.lowbeats.de

Dynaudio Contour 20i

Dánské Dynaudio není jistě nutné představovat, firma s rozkročená již desítky let stejně silnýma nohama mezi segment domácího i studiového poslechu a ze své základny v městečku Skanderborg vysílá do světa konstrukce od dostupných po ryze high-endové. Spíše k té vyšší sféře patří série Contour...

www.hifi-voice.com

Can anyone help make out these measurements in plain English?

 

[Cote Dazur]

Well, this would require to delve more into psychology, won't it? So, I've been changing speakers on and off for about 20 years, why stop now?

Anyway, the Polks are very good, but I did have better ones before (although not in this room). I don't expect any magic, just a little more- clarity, bass and attack.

No, no delving in the subconscious, although now that you are mentioning it.
I was asking more in trying to understand your expectations. You already addressed some of your room limitations with attempt in absorption and dispersion, so you already understand more than most. Your speaker & seat position is limited with the space they have to be in, better speaker & seat position would allow for better clarity, bass and attack.

Assuming, I have been involve in this hobby, longer than you, my experience is that the recordings rule everything, then second, come the room/speaker & seat position as in what makes the big differences, then every thing else very distant third.

If you had the space and was thinking into getting speakers with very extended frequency reponse to take advantage of a large space where you can play loud, then it is an other conversation, but, you have a small space with neighbors.
In my experience, a side step, is never the answer to anything, as soon enough you will end up exactly where you started from and regret spending the money.

On the other hand, if what gives you pleasure in life is spending money on non consequential items, knock yourself out, I even wish you get speakers you don't even like, so you can have pleasure in buying some more sooner than later.

 

[Roy_L]

BTW, this Czech site is great! Check out the Polk R500 & R600 measurements (the R200's larger siblings):

Polk Audio Reserve R500

Řada Reserve od amerických Polk Audio jako by svým názvem odkazovala na prémiový alkohol, pečlivě uzrálý a vybraný, byť povětšinou ne extrémně drahý – to je ostatně docela dobrá základní charakteristika této řady reprosoustav. Už v nich stačila uzrát firemní technologie, kterou mají i řady vyšší...

www.hifi-voice.com

Polk Audio Reserve R600

Američtí Polk Audio nepotřebují mnoho představování, zejména na západní polokouli platí doslova za legendy v oboru, jakkoliv v Evropě jejich výrobky zase tolik vzruchu nezpůsobily. Snaží se o to ale rozhodně nová řada Reserve, jejímž mottem je „Jak zní to lepší“. Protože Polk Audio cílí z větší...

www.hifi-voice.com

 

[Chromatischism]

Following the discussion below:

Speaker recommendation in view of brand's cost cutting

I'm looking to get new speakers after quite a long time with a temporary pair (Polk R200, they're really good). However, I've decided it's time to invest more money, and now I'm facing a new problem. I was intending to go for speakers with good measurements like Revel m106 (or even higher). But...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I've decided it's finally time to make a choice, and narrowed it down to 3 options. As you can see it the picture below, my living room is rather small, so I think a pair of floorstanders won't be ideal. Also, the current Polk R200 provide respectable bass and attack. I would appreciate some more, but not much. I don't think the room can handle much more (maybe in the nest apartment...).

So...

Option 1: BMR monitors. The problem- shipping + taxes may pump the price to unreasonable levels (I've contacted Salk sound, don't know the quote yet, but not optimistic). If the price stays reasonable, it's a serious contender. The plus for me, on top of great measurements, is the extra bass and attack compared to regular 2 way 6.5 inch Bookshelf speakers.

Option 2: The budget option, Revel M106. According to every indication, I just can't go wrong with them. Caveat- may not provide the extra bass and attack I want compared to the Polks. However, they're probably generally better. Also, given the price (I can even get a discount, a friend of mine is a dealer)- it's very tempting.

Option 3: The expensive option, Dynaudio Contour 20i. I can get a good price from my dealer friend, but they are still very expensive. I have very good experience with Dynaudio (owned the old contour 3.4 and loved it). However, I couldn't find any measurements of the 20i, only of the 20 in Stereophile (which were good but not great, if I understood correctly). Possible advantages- the tweeters are great; Also, it's a bigger speaker (larger volume) with a bigger woofer (7.1 inch). From experience, Dynaudio's woofers can handle a lot of power and produce great SPL without ever bottoming. So probably this one can punch lower and harder, emphasis on "probably" because I have no experience with Revel. Problem- price, that needs to be justified (within the law of diminishing return).

I'd appreciate any concrete thoughts.


View attachment 207028

I have a different question.

What is the width of the room?

If it's at least 10 feet, every speaker you try will sound a lot better if you rotate your furniture 90° and put the audio below the curtains.

 

[Roy_L]

The speakers are also used for movies (there's a projector there), and sound great in their location anyway.

 

[Kevin1956]

Does your dealer friend have any floor standing tower speakers of about the same footprint of your current bookshelves and stands that would fit your budget, have measurements that you find suitable and that you could actually try in your room before purchasing? If so, you gain the added benefit of patronizing the business of a friend while improving your audio/video experience thru the potential extended bandwidth of a floor standing loudspeaker.

 

[Sonny1]

Another vote for the BMR’s. They are beautiful and well designed speakers. I’m trying hard not to buy a pair myself. Good luck.

 

[AdamG]

Do others at ASR occasionally question participant's motives when branddropping, namedropping, subtle-to-blatant marketing support seems to be the very lifeblood od many posts here? We all, me included, have allengiances, biases, to the breakthrough speaker in our audio journey, the DIY or kit build we did, maybe even the crystal radio we had in our youth (if you're old enough to know). All I know is I'll be dreaming "Dennis" or "Dennis", or maybe even "Dennis" tonight after reading all 2+ pages of this forum. (Maybe tomorrow, if I can get a good night's sleep tonight, I'll re-revisit the KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced thread where KEF elitism seems to be in lifeblood there.)

If you don’t like reading a thread where members openly share their joy of certain products, you sir may well be in the wrong place. The only advertising we permit here, is our cherished members personal recommendations and experiences. That is part of the bond of this community. Understanding this and the fact that we are beholden to no company or manufacturer. Should set your mind at ease. Participate with this in mind or move along and find a place that better suits your tastes. Saying you will loose sleep over something someone on the internet said is a touch hyperbolic

 

[Marc v E]

Following the discussion below:

Speaker recommendation in view of brand's cost cutting

I'm looking to get new speakers after quite a long time with a temporary pair (Polk R200, they're really good). However, I've decided it's time to invest more money, and now I'm facing a new problem. I was intending to go for speakers with good measurements like Revel m106 (or even higher). But...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I've decided it's finally time to make a choice, and narrowed it down to 3 options. As you can see it the picture below, my living room is rather small, so I think a pair of floorstanders won't be ideal. Also, the current Polk R200 provide respectable bass and attack. I would appreciate some more, but not much. I don't think the room can handle much more (maybe in the nest apartment...).

So...

Option 1: BMR monitors. The problem- shipping + taxes may pump the price to unreasonable levels (I've contacted Salk sound, don't know the quote yet, but not optimistic). If the price stays reasonable, it's a serious contender. The plus for me, on top of great measurements, is the extra bass and attack compared to regular 2 way 6.5 inch Bookshelf speakers.

Option 2: The budget option, Revel M106. According to every indication, I just can't go wrong with them. Caveat- may not provide the extra bass and attack I want compared to the Polks. However, they're probably generally better. Also, given the price (I can even get a discount, a friend of mine is a dealer)- it's very tempting.

Option 3: The expensive option, Dynaudio Contour 20i. I can get a good price from my dealer friend, but they are still very expensive. I have very good experience with Dynaudio (owned the old contour 3.4 and loved it). However, I couldn't find any measurements of the 20i, only of the 20 in Stereophile (which were good but not great, if I understood correctly). Possible advantages- the tweeters are great; Also, it's a bigger speaker (larger volume) with a bigger woofer (7.1 inch). From experience, Dynaudio's woofers can handle a lot of power and produce great SPL without ever bottoming. So probably this one can punch lower and harder, emphasis on "probably" because I have no experience with Revel. Problem- price, that needs to be justified (within the law of diminishing return).

I'd appreciate any concrete thoughts.


View attachment 207028

To be honest, I would recommend against upgrading speakers. I looked up the spinorama of the r200 and it can't find much to critisize.

Instead, I would focus on room accoustics and eq (Rew). First experiment with rew and a measuring microphone to see what's really going on and what can be improved.
From my own limited experience I would expect 4 points of improvement:
1) keeping the couch from the wall or sound absorbtion material behind it
2) curtains on the side wall from ceiling to floor
3) eq with rew
4) add a subwoofer and minidsp flex to keep distortion in your speakers lower.

Anyway, that's what I would do.
You could experiment with rew and a microphone for a modest outlay of about 100,-

 

[Marc v E]

I have a different question.

What is the width of the room?

If it's at least 10 feet, every speaker you try will sound a lot better if you rotate your furniture 90° and put the audio below the curtains.

This is very good advice imo. The room has more influence on the sound the OP experiences than the speakers.

 

[HammerSandwich]

I'd appreciate any concrete thoughts.

Can't your dealer friend loan the Revels to compare to your Polks in your room? Nothing you read here will teach you as much.

 

[Roy_L]

Can't your dealer friend loan the Revels to compare to your Polks in your room? Nothing you read here will teach you as much.

I wish. It's a "take it or leave it" favor. He has no such speakers on display, he does architectural installations etc. He works with audio brands mostly for their in wall speakers.

 

[Roy_L]

Can anyone comment on the measurements I found? It's no spinorama, but I'm sure it's useful.

The Contour 20i measurements:

Dynaudio Contour 20i

Dánské Dynaudio není jistě nutné představovat, firma s rozkročená již desítky let stejně silnýma nohama mezi segment domácího i studiového poslechu a ze své základny v městečku Skanderborg vysílá do světa konstrukce od dostupných po ryze high-endové. Spíše k té vyšší sféře patří série Contour...

www.hifi-voice.com

For reference, measurements of well known speakers also measured elsewhere:

Kef LS50 Meta:

KEF LS50 Meta

„Meta“ jako metamorfóza, „meta“ jako metamfetamin, „meta“ jako metafyzický. Ale také „Meta“ jakožto metamateriály – právě z toho posledního je odvozen přídomek druhé generace ikonického modelu LS50, který anglický KEF původně zamýšlel jako zajímavou limitovanou sérii, aby nakonec strávil beze...

www.hifi-voice.com

Kef R3:

KEF R3

Není mnoho britských výrobců reprosoustav , kteří by byly na světě známější, než jihoanglický KEF - ostatně už je to přes 50 let, co ho Raymond Cooke založil, takže času na proniknutí k veřejnosti mělo jméno dost. Nejnověji prošla inovací prostřední série z firemní nabídky, nazvaná jednoduše R...

www.hifi-voice.com

My very own Polk R200:

Polk Audio Reserve R200

Jméno Polk Audio je ve Spojených státech jednou z nejpopulárnějších značek. Může za to hlavně vcelku typické „americké“ zvukové ladění, ale i velmi atraktivní cenová politika, kdy se Polk prostě snaží nabídnout za daný výkon co nejnižší cenu. Podobné zaměření platí i pro střední sérii Reserve...

www.hifi-voice.com

The Polk L200 (BTW, FR looks very similar to the R200 but smoother):

Polk Audio Reserve R200

Jméno Polk Audio je ve Spojených státech jednou z nejpopulárnějších značek. Může za to hlavně vcelku typické „americké“ zvukové ladění, ale i velmi atraktivní cenová politika, kdy se Polk prostě snaží nabídnout za daný výkon co nejnižší cenu. Podobné zaměření platí i pro střední sérii Reserve...

www.hifi-voice.com

From my untrained eye, I think the 20i measure pretty well. I can see the bump at about 13Khz, but a toe out of 30 degrees seem to subside that. However, I'm no, uh... graph expert...?

 

[thewas]

Can anyone comment on the measurements I found? It's no spinorama, but I'm sure it's useful.

Unfortunately the measurements of that magazine don't tell much as they are taking at normal (and different) listening rooms without windowing and other techniques to remove the room influence and usually just on-axis and at 30°.

More meaningful measurements of the Contour 20 "pre-facelift without i" can be found though at https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-contour-20-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[Roy_L]

Thanks! that's a bummer. I thought I found something useful. I know the Stereophile measurements, but it's not the same speaker (different tweeter at least). So it's back to guesswork, I guess...

 

[Marc v E]

Thanks! that's a bummer. I thought I found something useful. I know the Stereophile measurements, but it's not the same speaker (different tweeter at least). So it's back to guesswork, I guess...

No, it doesn't have to. You can measure the response of your own speakers. That way you'll have a baseline to see if you get an improvement and work from there. Otherwise I agee it's just guesswork.

Please take a listen to this example to get an idea what you can achieve:

 

[Roy_L]

That's nice, but the idea is to find reliable measurements *before* buying the speakers...

 

[Marc v E]

I understand what you mean.

Even before that step, measuring what you have now will be of great help.
You will probably see a frequency response that is way different than what the anechoic measurement of your speaker says. That will also happen when you get new speakers. And that's also why I recomended Rew because its free and a measurement microphone like the umik 1 (which is not free but costs a little).

 

[fineMen]

.. don't think the room can handle much more (maybe in the nest apartment...).

The seating position seems to be close to the backwall. That would lift the bass/lower mids a lot, kind of a "loudness" effect..

Option 1: BMR monitors. The problem- ...

Me thinks the main distinctive advantage of the BMRs, as people tell, is the very wide horizontal, but in the treble quite to extremely narrow dispersion vertically. In that room the asymmetry left / right may react sensitive to this feature. The sofa looks like You were "normal" in that You don't sit like a broomstick while listening to music. So, the specialised vertical dispersion would pose something else than a benefit.

Option 2: The budget option, Revel M106. According to every indication, I just can't go wrong with them. Caveat- may not provide the extra bass and attack I want compared to the Polks. However, they're probably generally better. Also, given the price (I can even get a discount, a friend of mine is a dealer)- it's very tempting.

You could add a pair of woofers ( not a "sub" ) later, using a digital cross-over and proper equalisation--see the nasty 'backwall' thing.

Option 3: The expensive option, Dynaudio ...

Is it an option compared to the Revels? Of course the Revels aren't my cup of tea regarding the exalted looks. And the price. Dynaudio fell out of my favour once the "new" factor declined, decades back in time ;-)

 

[Roy_L]

Thank you all!
We're down to 2. Despite my initial intention, my original #1 contender and the reason I got my interest back, the BMR, is off the table due to the whole international shipping thing being either complicated or expensive (not to mention taxes). Also, since it's still guesswork, if I don't like it, the resale value here is going to be quite low. Maybe someday when I'm reacher. Next week I'll order one of the other two. Maybe I should flip a coin