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Timbral Quality of DAC Output Signals
- Thread starter Audicron
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Been there, done that:
www.audiosciencereview.com
How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?
I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE...
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So there is no influence on the psychoacoustic interpretation of the music?Been there, done that:
How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent?
I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE...
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No, how could there be?
Jim T
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For most of us their analogue output stages are a part of the deal, but I love my Topping DX5MK2 as it is the best sounding DAC I have owned. I also have 3 of the E50's on other systems mostly used with headphones amps from Schiit. Once I got the DX5 it is hard to go to much else until I can buy a BenchMark.
- Thread Starter
- #6
Is codified timbre simply quantified in the code and jitter has no influence?
MatrixS2000
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The timbral quality of a sound is based on its measurements when it was recorded. If your DAC is transparent, you are hearing the exact representation of recorded timbral quality.
MattHooper
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In the late 90s, somewhat to my surprise, I was able in blind level-matched tests to reliably distinguish between some DACs and CDPs based mostly on the different timber of sound they produced.
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- #9
Is jitter not a consequential influence on the encoded signal, in the psychoacoustic interpretation?
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Jitter is a non-issue in any modern, non-broken DAC. And yes the "code" (I'm presuming you're referring to the digital stream here) completely quantifies the original signal and the DAC is able to reconstruct the original signal no issue. Instead of looking to audiophile nonsense or your "gut" or "intuition" to guide you, learn something about how this stuff works. To start with, I can always recommend this video:
No, not unless the product is highly flawed.
But all this was discussed probably a dozen times in the topic I posted.
kemmler3D
Master Contributor
Let's call timbre the subjective impression of how something sounds, for the sake of this discussion.
Competent (i.e. transparent) DACs don't operate in a way that could affect timbre except in terms of the filter. Some of them will roll off the highs a tiny bit which could be said to affect timbre.
Jitter is almost always way too low to hear at all, let alone in a way that would register as timbre.
Noise is just noise, no relevance to timbre unless it were signal-dependent, which I have not seen before.
Distortion is sometimes high enough to affect timbre, but rarely, and never in a competent DAC.
So TL;DR no unless your DAC is trash, or you can hear the top end of the filter, and even then it's not operating on the character of the sound otherwise.
Competent (i.e. transparent) DACs don't operate in a way that could affect timbre except in terms of the filter. Some of them will roll off the highs a tiny bit which could be said to affect timbre.
Jitter is almost always way too low to hear at all, let alone in a way that would register as timbre.
Noise is just noise, no relevance to timbre unless it were signal-dependent, which I have not seen before.
Distortion is sometimes high enough to affect timbre, but rarely, and never in a competent DAC.
So TL;DR no unless your DAC is trash, or you can hear the top end of the filter, and even then it's not operating on the character of the sound otherwise.
MatrixS2000
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Not in well designed DACs, which is why I said transparent DAC. You would save yourself a lot of headaches by not ignoring measurements and using them to inform your subjective side. The objective view is not to replace subjective view but to inform and guide it.
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I doubt he watched the video the first time, and probably won't this time either, but one can always hope. In any case, I'll take any opportunity to spread the Word of Monty.
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- #16
As I remember, somewhere towards the end he admits to some distortion artifacts being displayed in the oscilloscope analysis...I doubt he watched the video the first time, and probably won't this time either, but one can always hope. In any case, I'll take any opportunity to spread the Word of Monty.
He admits nothing. He just explains what is going on, and why this is as it should be.
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- #18
Is noise-floor inconsequential to timbral output integrity?
What he was talking about are all things leading from the demo setup, nothing else. Thus irrelevant to the point he’s making.
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