Tidal vs. Deezer vs. Qobuz vs. Spotify vs. Apple Music

[Fluffy]

looks like Spotify has a better trebles extension

That is a false conclusion. You can see in the spectrogram comparison that Spotify is using a lossy codec, that loses much more detail at the high end (all those blue gaps). In the same time, it happens to have a digital filter that apparently cuts off after 22khz, as opposed to tidal, that have a fast filter that takes over at about 21khz. If any if these treble parts are audible (which I'm doubtful), the Tidal version would be better. Merely looking at a total spectrum and seeing "extended" treble means nothing about sound quality. Especially if it's in the ultrasound…

 

[trl]

Spotify is using a lossy codec

I've seen the spectrum diff. myself, but still I'm unsure why the trebles are having a higher output level when comparing the other two graphs.

However, I'm still impressed how good the spectrogram is looking on the Spotify that should be 320KBs (per https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/system_settings/high-quality-streaming/) versus the Tidal that is 16-bit/44KHz lossless FLAC.

 

[majingotan]

I've seen the spectrum diff. myself, but still I'm unsure why the trebles are having a higher output level when comparing the other two graphs.

However, I'm still impressed how good the spectrogram is looking on the Spotify that should be 320KBs (per https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/system_settings/high-quality-streaming/) versus the Tidal that is 16-bit/44KHz lossless FLAC.

The ogg vorbis compression is looking impressive, not truncating those high frequency and just taking away elements that are inaudible (unless proven by DBT Volume matched test) to the listener. Coupled that with the largest music selection and most impressive UI, not to mention more compatibility streaming to devices (Spotify connect is still much more common than Roon in so many devices though IIRC it streams at 256 Kbps AAC instead), I can never see them being dethroned in their own game.

 

[Blujackaal]

The ogg vorbis compression is looking impressive, not truncating those high frequency and just taking away elements that are inaudible (unless proven by DBT Volume matched test) to the listener. Coupled that with the largest music selection and most impressive UI, not to mention more compatibility streaming to devices (Spotify connect is still much more common than Roon in so many devices though IIRC it streams at 256 Kbps AAC instead), I can never see them being dethroned in their own game.

320Kbps Vorbis should be tranparent even with some killer samples. Heck i highly doubt many could tell 160kbps vorbis in a A/B test outside of some challenging samples, Even with some good headphones(ER3XR, LCD2C, HD800).

But of course many audiophiles won't do that with Lossy vs Lossless.

 

[trl]

I will actually try an A/B test these days, but first I'd like to have an FFT test.

 

[DanaFloyd]

I see something wrong here. You can compare it with a few other applications to see the difference. For example, you compare DeltaWave with spotify premium techbigs

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

I strongly prefer Qobuz. I’ve used DeltaWave to confirm that the hi-res file of a given release streaming on Qobuz is the same one available for purchase on HDTracks, bit-perfect match.

 

[Frank Dernie]

I chose Qobuz because it had more classical choices.
The search is still hamstrung b y the usual unsuitablility of standard tagging to find the classical work you want to listen to, but the choice is big.
Mind you, if I own the CD it is usually quicker to put that on than find the same thing on a streaming service.

 

[trl]

I strongly prefer Qobuz. I’ve used DeltaWave to confirm that the hi-res file of a given release streaming on Qobuz is the same one available for purchase on HDTracks, bit-perfect match.

Great news, although I was sure about this myself. Did you happen to upload here the DeltaWave, please? Spectrums, but also Deltas might be helpful here.

From the tests I've done I wasn't able to see much differences on Hi-Res Audio on all Qobuz-Deezer-Tidal.

 

[SimpleTheater]

I just decided to compare Spotify free version to Amazon Unlimited. I listened to DSOTM and Amazon Unlimited was terrible. I did the free HD upgrade to Amazon and while it was improved, it still wasn't better then Spotify. I then went to Napster and it was the same (as far as I could tell) as Spotify. Even more interesting to me, was Amazon HD was the only service where the track didn't start at the same place. Specifically in Time, the clock chimes started at the 4 second mark, but the other 3 services they started at the 8 second mark. All 4 services stated the track was 6:53 in length.

I'd love it if @trl could put the Amazon services into a spectrogram.

 

[bigbag34]

My “steamer” is a Klipsch gate which may not be high enough quality to tell a difference but I honestly didn’t hear much difference between paid Quobuz highest quality and paid Spotify highest quality. My dac, amp, preamp, speakers are all budget oriented so my equipment might not be resolving enough to hear a difference. Therefore I’ve stuck with paid 320k Spotify. UI, song selection, etc are well engineered.

BTW I sent Amir my extra Klipsch Gate streamer for testing so hopefully at some point I will see how well the Gate measures as a streamer.

Also just so you know my budget set up is
2x Outlaw M2200 mono amps
1x Emotiva PT100 preamp
1x Klipsch Gate streamer ($50 at Amazon)
2x JBL Studio 580 speakers

 

[trl]

Qobuz 24-bit/48KHz

AppleMusic (energy seems lower after 18-19Khz)

Qobuz - Spectrogram

AppleMusic Spectrogram (energy seems lower after 18-19Khz)

Matched Spectra - Qobuz 24-bit/48KHz (blue) vs. Applemusic (white)

Delta of Spectra - Qobuz 24/48 vs. AppleMusic

Visual sine-waves looks - Qobuz 24/48 vs. AppleMusic

​

You can see a little bit higher volume on AppleMusic, hence some more peaks getting to 0dBFS. Unable to identify the difference in volume in an A/B test, but worth telling about it.

I see that there's lot of energy in the trebles department, up to 18.8Khz, so I guess AppleMusic should be good enough for most people, especially that is offering Family subscription worldwide (1+6 members), international language support for its interface and help, but also lyrics.

AppleMusic/iTunes interface is more like spartan and not so look-appealing like Tidal or Qobuz, but at least in MacOS it consumes the least CPU % from all tested streaming services interfaces. I also love Apple's parametric EQ, especially the manual setting available on desktop application only.

 

[awdeeoh]

The Tame Impala's The Slow Rush album I got from Qobuz turns out to be MQA sourced.

How did I know?

First, by listening - I can't find the difference, out of all MQA and non-MQA ones I've listened, this one is the outlier. I can't find the difference even the subtle ones, so I suspected it could be MQA sourced.

Second by putting in the MQATagRestorer app.

Can you check that album, I got the files if you want.

 

[trl]

I can't find the difference, out of all MQA and non-MQA ones I've listened

There should be no audible and no measurable differences between MQA and non-MQA audio files, across audible bandwidth! So, let's not hope that MQA will ever provide a better audio quality than the original lossless tracks.

MQA is not intended to provide a better audio quality (this wouldn't be even possible), but this new standard is trying to ensure that the customers will listen to the original file provided by recording studios (at some expense, of course) and not to some possible fake audio file uploaded by 3rd parties.

Let's not forget that "At best, the MQA system losslessly conveys 17-bits at 96 kHz". (source: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/163302855-is-mqa-doa).

Feel free to update existing ASR threads with your thoughts about MQA:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/question-about-filters-mqa-vs-hi-res.12343/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/an-interesting-talk-about-mqa.12070/
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/mqa-sounds-really-good.9512/

P.S.: In my opinion, anyone who believes that can hear or "feel" the difference between 24-bit/48KHz is a fraud or the software or hardware that decodes the audio files is having issues (or volume mismatched by at least 0.25dB).

 

[jae]

What about amazon music HD? I believe there's a free trial period, care to run the same tests with Amazon?

 

[tuga]

Spotify Very High Quality (320Kbs) - The most extended trebles from all the four streamers

Could it be signal-correlated noise / distortion like what you get with vinyl?

 

[trl]

What about amazon music HD? I believe there's a free trial period, care to run the same tests with Amazon?

I'll need to ask someone in US to make an account for me, so I can test it, like I did with Qobuz (a friend from DE helped me out).

Could it be signal-correlated noise / distortion like what you get with vinyl?

I'm not sure, sorry, maybe it's from their codec or simply the bandwidth is a little bit higher (or maybe both).
Having trebles more extended doesn't really means that the streaming quality is better, because more information usually means more Kbs.

 

[ramendik]

Thank you very much for this analysis!

I have a basic HiFi setup with Sennheiser HD-270 headphones and an entry-level AV receiver, connected to the computer by SPDIF. I compared Tidal High quality to HiFi and the difference was quite audible, with the HiFi sounding nicer and brighter. So I stared t think that somehow I need uncompressed sources - which was strange for this level of tech.

But from your analysis I learned that the High is not that high, and also that Spotify somehow has all that treble.

So I tested Spotify - which sonehow sounds "nicer and brighter" than Tidal HiFi in my first tests, quite limited so far.

Now I am suspecting that this is a matter of postprocessing (or perhaps preprocessing) the tracks to boost the highest treble. On audiophile-grade tech it would sound worse, but perhaps Spotify left the audiophiles to Tidal and Deezer? In my previous tests I hear significant roll-off on this setup starting with 14 kHz, typical for entry-level as I understand - so perhaps Spotify compensates for.

Is there a way to test this hypothesis? Like, compare the Spotify sound with Tidal (or the actual CD, or - just for research purposes - a torrented FLAC of the actual CD) to see if the treble was actually boosted artificially?

I'm quite new to this but guessing it might be possible?

 

[trl]

In my previous tests I hear significant roll-off on this setup starting with 14 kHz, typical for entry-level as I understand - so perhaps Spotify compensates for.

I am not sure I understand, sorry. With what application do you notice the roll-off after 14KHz?

Is there a way to test this hypothesis? Like, compare the Spotify sound with Tidal (or the actual CD, or - just for research purposes - a torrented FLAC of the actual CD) to see if the treble was actually boosted artificially?

I did some compares and I couldn't actually notice any differences when using headphones. You need to be sure that you're listening to the exact the same track, because some tracks might come from different "disc records" or be sort of re-edit. Try some new songs from 2019-2020 that are sharing the same icon/pictogram and have the same length (mm:ss).

 

[p0k3m0n]

Now I am suspecting that this is a matter of postprocessing (or perhaps preprocessing) the tracks to boost the highest treble. On audiophile-grade tech it would sound worse, but perhaps Spotify left the audiophiles to Tidal and Deezer? In my previous tests I hear significant roll-off on this setup starting with 14 kHz, typical for entry-level as I understand - so perhaps Spotify compensates for.

I registered only to say: YES, You are right. Since 2-3 months I simply cannot listen Spotify. Compression was/is terrible. I was thought it is somethng wrong with my devices or my ears. But no, I do not changed anything: the same DAP, the same headphones, the same head. Spotify compression is absolutely awful right now. When I tried Deezer HiFi everything returned to normal. Even Deezer Premium has much better sound quality than Spotify Premium right now - I checked it. It is not placebo. This is for sure 99% Spotify action - they intentionally kill dynamic in songs - looks like "loudness war" in practice.