TIDAL: No EQ is a major oversight

[mSpot]

I bought an iPhone, discovered that Apple had paid developers to break the downloading of music files from services such as Bandcamp, leaving me with mp3 Bandcamp streaming only from my phone despite Bandcamp making flac available. Will never buy an Apple product again.

Apple Music doesn't support FLAC, but you can use other music players such as VOX.

 

[Tks]

That's because, no offense, I think you need to re-read because your reactions don't correlate very well to what you're responding to. Briefly, key points.

• @amirm writes that EQ should be mandatory in a playback software (here, Tidal). I replied with my opinion streaming audio sources are the wrong place to put (P)EQ, for reasons spelled out above. However, I merely took the opposite position from Amir, i.e. "not mandatory." I never went beyond that to "should not be included." Lots of features in various software are stupid and useless to most users, but if those features don't actively hurt the user experience who cares? The same applies here: not mandatory, but who cares if it's there, so long doesn't muck up the UI for people who apply their PEQ in more sensible locations on the signal chain,
• Whether an individual cares about fidelity or not is not a key point. The key points are
  • Parametric EQ, regardless of the target curve, is a tool used to tune listening environments such as interactions between a room and a specific set of loudspeakers in a given placement with a given listening position, or headphones. That is distinguished from tone or tilt controls, which are used (by people who use them) to adjust the tonality of specific content.
  • EQ in the streaming player software is underinclusive (not in the signal chain for other sources)
  • EQ in the streaming player is inconvenient (a pain to have to mess with EQ in the playback software when switching to different listening environments)
    • Point taken that if one only listens to one source in one listening environment, the playback software is as good a place to any to put PEQ. But does "one source, one listening environment" describe many members here?
• I realize this place is gaga for separate DACs for reasons I don't quite fathom, as separate DACs are superfluous for most people. Regardless there is an obvious functional reason to include a volume control on the back or deep in a menu (not prominent, where someone can screw with it) of a separate DAC for systems in which they are actually useful - gain staging/level matching. Admittedly, "why don't amps have gain controls?" is a sore spot but the sad fact remains that most amps marketed as home hifi products do not. So gain staging has to happen upstage of the amp in the rare system where a separate DAC is a relevant component if you use 'hifi' amps. (Pro amps usually have attenuators.)
• Funny you mention volume control from source. I actually find that annoying compared to having a master volume control for each listening environment, so that each listening environment has its own control and the playback software doesn't muck with it. A few times I've wondered why something's so quiet despite a nominally high playback level, or why the system was cranked up so loud, only to find the expected relationship between master volume level and output level was broken because somebody messed with the volume control in their Music nee iTunes instead of more sensibly using master volume. I don't know how other companies' products do it because I don't have the time or inclination to use them, but Apple manages system-wide volume control for multiple listening environments over AirPlay and BT very well. Basically it remembers your last master volume level for each listening environment.

I feel there is a bit of padentry going on here, the first two points (where you want to emphasize Tidal, when I and Amir are talking about ALL playback software, so there really id not point in spelling out Tidal since that's the topic OP started, it simply goes without saying). And the second point about how you want to clarify you're not making ought claims (which I understand, you are simply talking about your preference which is fine). Then there's the -which I take to be a retraction- of the original claim about EQ being for people who care about fidelity, which I also assumed but didn't want to presume was a typo on your part prior.

We're still left with the primary questions I posed prior. What exactly is the actual problem of having PEQ in all playback software? You made the claim about UI conflicts now, and prior you made a claim about causing confusion and inconvenience (which I've addressed can be easily bypassed, and PEQ in general could be ignored, which also shows PEQ somehow being a part of a software stack featureset doesn't necessitate it's required end-user employment).

Then there was a thing about DAC seperates. Not quite sure what that has to do with anything particularly, but it seems like a subjective claim that's more apt for audiophiles in general (the more subjectivist leaning for sure). Most of the people I know would love an all-in-one device. It's just it's rare to find any good ones (for good reason, more expensive, less profit, and much more R&D to develop). I agree though in general, people fascinated with separates from a performance perspective are a bit irrational. But then again, would you really want every single DAC to also be a steamer, amp, speaker amp, media server, etc.. ? I wouldn't (not because of those features not interesting me, but because I don't want to have to pay for all those features, when all I need is a DAC with perhaps basic functions).

The only reply to the primary question now seems to be something about "well someone messes with the volume control" (which I take to now be the newest argument that can be leveled against PEQ, since I've addressed all the other reasons against including it). Am I going to far in assuming that's the actual critique against having PEQ as an option in some fashion in all playback software? That your kid might mess with your phone and your PEQ is messed up?

To me, PEQ lacking in playback software is about as stupid as buying one of two DACs where all eles held constant (even price), the purchase of the one without volume control seems like a niche purchase at best (to avoid having your kids or someone mess with the volume I suppose), and stupidity at worst. Likewise I can't understand why having PEQ in all playback software in some form is a negative for you. I understand you wouldn't have a use. But I can simply invoke the mainstream (where people with their iPhones listen to music yet have no EQ control in sight). I'll repeat myself. The cost-benefit analysis against your position is so skewed, this is why I am having a hard time rationalizing why PEQ in playback software would be considered "BAD" in your view given that such a function adds quite a bit of value to almost every listening setup.

 

[Phorize]

Apple Music doesn't support FLAC, but you can use other music players such as VOX.

I use VLC, but Apple only allow Bandcamp to place their app on in the AppStore if flac downloads are disabled through both the app and any web browser , so I can’t access Bandcamp directly flacs at all from my iPhone at all.

 

[Katji]

You mean.......the Bandcamp iOS app version has flac...downloads/stream disabled...but Bandcamp is not responsible for the web browser, so...?

What about Apple Mac, OSX? Surely!

####, I'd even sort of began to consider getting an iPhone...and before that a Macbook/Air/whatever.

I bought an iPhone, discovered that Apple had paid developers to break the downloading of music files from services such as Bandcamp [...]

Paid developers? Which developers? ....[smh] I don't get it.

 

[Phorize]

You mean.......the Bandcamp iOS app version has flac...downloads/stream disabled...but Bandcamp is not responsible for the web browser, so...?

What about Apple Mac, OSX? Surely!

####, I'd even sort of began to consider getting an iPhone...and before that a Macbook/Air/whatever.


Paid developers? Which developers? ....[smh] I don't get it.

Like audible bandcamp is unable to offer its full service on iOS. It is impossible to download a music file in any format from bandcamp using a browser on iOS, or obtain a flac through the app. My near certain assumption is that to have the bandcamp app in the App Store they had to agree to reduce the features available to iOS users. No bandcamp flacs on iOS, and no music downloads with a browser from bandcamp.

 

[Katji]

I googled, results were...not good, but apparently you have to download to computer and then transfer to iPhone using Sync - which I suppose means an Apple computer. Unless Windows Sync stuff works with Apple.

It all sounds familiar. I bought an Apple...little mp3 player thing without a display, urgently because the nice Samsung player I had got stolen...and I hated it because I couldn't just copy files to it. I had to install iTunes and fxck around with that, pissed me off more.

 

[johnweems]

I can't agree more with that. People who use Tidal focus more on its sound quality. The equalizer helps them adjust the song and make it better for their headphones. I am wondering is it possible to download Tidal music via a 3rd party Tidal music donloader like AudKit? So that can use any music equalizer to adjust the local tracks. If anyone has more info on this program? It claims to keep lossless Tidal quality.

 

[egellings]

Isn't EQ something each listener would do to get the sound right for their particular room? Tidal would send out an unaltered signal, and the listener would dial it in for the room/speaker (ears?) setup in use.

 

[Raindog123]

Isn't EQ something each listener would do to get the sound right for their particular room? Tidal would send out an unaltered signal, and the listener would dial it in for the room/speaker (ears?) setup in use.

>Yep< (And especially the last para.)

 

[Two Beers]

I use tidal with my DAC & hi-fi system often, it's fine as it is. I also use Tidal via iPhone for 20+ hours a month on our farm. I use tri-element Shure 525 sound isolating ear-buds. The bass is so weak it's almost nonexistent on some older jazz tracks. A Tidal in app Eq would be greatly appreciated !! Paying for and using a 3rd party Eq app and importing tidal library is very annoying plus greatly decreases battery life. Using iPhone as streaming source, I can still receive phone, text and email alerts while mowing, working. Why no choice to use simple Eq in app ??

 

[scottmckinney67]

The scenario that makes me want the eq in tidal, is that I use the tidal app on my tv into powered speakers (klipsch the fives) and the app sucks. No eq settings in tv. My car stereo has a dsp amp with parametric eq so I could easily tune that system for the eq'd stream from Tidal.

 

[Jimbob54]

The scenario that makes me want the eq in tidal, is that I use the tidal app on my tv into powered speakers (klipsch the fives) and the app sucks. No eq settings in tv. My car stereo has a dsp amp with parametric eq so I could easily tune that system for the eq'd stream from Tidal.

Leaving aside the fact that Tidal (and the rest) have probably never even considered PEQ in their player apps, I doubt they would implement in TV/ streaming dongle apps anyway as these devices are often underpowered from a processing standpoint and PEQ might chew up more resources than is either good for or allowed by the device /OS.

I know some Spotify apps have limited GEQ but dont know if that carries over to the TV apps

 

[scottmckinney67]

Leaving aside the fact that Tidal (and the rest) have probably never even considered PEQ in their player apps, I doubt they would implement in TV/ streaming dongle apps anyway as these devices are often underpowered from a processing standpoint and PEQ might chew up more resources than is either good for or allowed by the device /OS.

I know some Spotify apps have limited GEQ but dont know if that carries over to the TV apps

I wouldn't expect a PEQ, but a nice 5 band would work wonders.

 

[scottmckinney67]

I'm a long time plex user, love it for movies and tv streaming. Interface works well for that. It also links tidal, seems fairly good so far. So being a plexpass guy, I downloaded plexamp which has an eq. Plexamp is phone or tablet only. Tried it out, so far so good. So if you don't want to add more hardware and want an eq and have plex, this may be your answer. More than one way to skin a cat

 

[BeerBear]

EQ in Tidal would conflict with the "blue light" MQA scam.

 

[Peterinvan]

care to elaborate? In my opinion, the only thing they really have going for them is the sample rate and library. Everything else is pretty much suspect. Fortunately, those are the top priorities on my list.

TIDAL FEATURES
yes, a parametric EQ would be useful. I had roon for a while, and it’s pre-packaged EQ settings for Audeze were fun to try. I I Dropped Roon as an unnecessary expense. Now I am satisfied without EQ on Tidal. I still use parametric EQ on Foobar2000.

I really like the user interface on Tidal, and have spent several years curating my playlists. The recommended tracks and albums are still overweighted in generes I do not listen to, but I still discover at least one new album every week and flag it to favourites.

 

[Peterinvan]

EQ in Tidal would conflict with the "blue light" MQA scam.

How does Tidal profit from the MQA functionality?

The only advantage I have found is downloaded Master tracks may take up less space on my DAP, and possibly Tidal does not need to upgrade their servers for unaltered hi res tracks (i.e what Qobuz serves up).

(sorry to drag up the MQA debate again)

 

[mSpot]

How does Tidal profit from the MQA functionality?

Tidal uses MQA to promote their service and sell subscriptions. Without MQA, Tidal is a generic streaming service with nothing to differentiate them from other services.

 

[scottmckinney67]

Tidal uses MQA to promote their service and sell subscriptions. Without MQA, Tidal is a generic streaming service with nothing to differentiate them from other services.

The differentiated themselves for me by offering a military discount for active military and veterans. Six bucks a month for the hifi package. I'm happy with it.