• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Tidal’s New Lossless Tier Says Goodbye to MQA (but does it really?)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sir Sanders Zingmore

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 20, 2018
Messages
620
Likes
1,036
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Is it feasible that the “Hifi” tier will simply be deliberately hobbled MQA (with the mqa flag removed)?
That way, anyone comparing “Hifi” and “hifi plus” will of course be astounded at how good MQA sounds.
 

Helicopter

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 13, 2020
Messages
2,392
Likes
3,266
Location
Michigan
Yeah, I miss Rammstein ! You can't even buy their music on Band Camp. From what I understand it's CD, Spotify, or bust, unless you want to listen to all of their music as music videos on YouTube. I'm a big fan so I have most of their music on CD and ripped files.

I find the Qobuz app to be fine. The only feature it doesn't have is algorithm based suggestions. You have to manually select a track, album, or human created playlist.
Rammstein is on Amazon HD.

If only Amazon would open up their Atmos music to something other than their Studio speakers, like one of the Fire TV devices.
 

hmscott

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
562
Likes
453
Rammstein is on Amazon HD.

If only Amazon would open up their Atmos music to something other than their Studio speakers, like one of the Fire TV devices.
Yeah, I miss Rammstein ! You can't even buy their music on Band Camp. From what I understand it's CD, Spotify, or bust, unless you want to listen to all of their music as music videos on YouTube. I'm a big fan so I have most of their music on CD and ripped files.
A few Rammstein tracks are still on Tidal...as is their Artist page...
https://tidal.com/browse/artist/24972

https://tidal.com/browse/track/94442127
https://tidal.com/browse/track/103540053
https://tidal.com/browse/track/94442129

And, on that Artist page if you click on their Credits, Rammstein have a lot of credited content on Tidal:
https://tidal.com/browse/credits/24972
1620090807163.png
There is quite a bit more Rammstein on AMHD:
Rammstein on AMHD.JPG
 
Last edited:

tmtomh

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
1,103
Likes
3,294
I'd bet Bob has taken a beating internally every time he has to justify a lie. But he may not have any morals left and only cares about the money. Hell, his credibility is shot with thousands online.

I generally don't engage in speculation about motives, and I have no idea what Bob Stuart is thinking. But apropos of your point, I'm not sure - ever since at least the mid-1980s, Stuart has been extolling the value of "apodizing" filters and banging on about minimum phase vs linear phase; in other words as far as I know MQA's filters of choice are the same kind Stuart's been putting into hardware and evangelizing about forever.

That leaves the other part of MQA, which is the codec itself - the "fold/unfold" and "render" and all the BS that goes with it. All of that stuff is based on the underlying conviction that ultrasonic frequencies are worth preserving in the first place - so much so that it's worth sacrificing some bit depth in order to preserve some of the ultrasonic content.

My guess is that Stuart honestly believes this is true, and that when he says things like "new neuroscience research shows we can hear ultrasonics" he's doing what many people do, which is cherry picking sources (in this case, the discredited, never-able-to-be-replicated Oohashi "hypersonic effect" study) to justify something he really believes or wants to believe or has convinced himself is probably true.

I don't deny for a second that Stuart is a businessperson and looking to make a buck - or at least to define success and status in terms of monetary success. But the number and scope of lies people can tell while retaining a sense of morals and actually believing their own lies is quite something - I think we often underestimate it.
 

hmscott

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
562
Likes
453
I generally don't engage in speculation about motives, and I have no idea what Bob Stuart is thinking. But apropos of your point, I'm not sure - ever since at least the mid-1980s, Stuart has been extolling the value of "apodizing" filters and banging on about minimum phase vs linear phase; in other words as far as I know MQA's filters of choice are the same kind Stuart's been putting into hardware and evangelizing about forever.

That leaves the other part of MQA, which is the codec itself - the "fold/unfold" and "render" and all the BS that goes with it. All of that stuff is based on the underlying conviction that ultrasonic frequencies are worth preserving in the first place - so much so that it's worth sacrificing some bit depth in order to preserve some of the ultrasonic content.

My guess is that Stuart honestly believes this is true, and that when he says things like "new neuroscience research shows we can hear ultrasonics" he's doing what many people do, which is cherry picking sources (in this case, the discredited, never-able-to-be-replicated Oohashi "hypersonic effect" study) to justify something he really believes or wants to believe or has convinced himself is probably true.

I don't deny for a second that Stuart is a businessperson and looking to make a buck - or at least to define success and status in terms of monetary success. But the number and scope of lies people can tell while retaining a sense of morals and actually believing their own lies is quite something - I think we often underestimate it.
Mod's please stop this again before it starts, its moved from the closed down thread and being started up elsewhere.

And, for those of you that simply cannot resist sharing your unwanted opinions about MQA, please stop posting anti-MQA comments.

Especially, here in threads where owners of MQA capable equipment and subscribers to Tidal's MQA subscriptions are trying to share our enjoyment of those things.

"Tidal’s New Lossless Tier Says Goodbye to MQA (but does it really?)"

It really is insensitive and rude no matter where you post the useless constant neverending anti-MQA blathering.
 
Last edited:

tmtomh

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
1,103
Likes
3,294
Mod's please stop this again before it starts

And, for those of you that simply cannot resist sharing your unwanted opinions about MQA, please stop posting anti-MQA comments.

Especially, here in threads where owners of MQA capable equipment and subscribers to Tidal's MQA subscriptions are trying to share our enjoyment of those things.

It really is insensitive and rude.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that this is a thread about Tidal MQA subscribers sharing their enjoyment of that. I'm not saying that enjoyment of Tidal Hi-Fi Plus tier subscriptions (which include but are not limited to MQA content) isn't relevant here. But that's not what this thread is about.
 

hmscott

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
562
Likes
453
Why don't you start a thread for that? This thread is about the change in Tidal's subscription tiers.
Which I've made several posts about, and then this post comes out of the blue:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tidal’s-new-lossless-tier-says-goodbye-to-mqa-but-does-it-really.22968/post-769306

How is that post related to "Tidel's Subscription Tiers"? It is anti-MQA blathering completely out of the blue and not connected to anyone else's comment or post.

There are a number of other threads where MQA equipment and Tidal are the topics and we've had trolls drop such anti-MQA posts before, and they were stopped before they took over the thread. I hope that is stopped here too.

Normal slightly off-topic discussions about the subject happen of course, but such negative trolling isn't anywhere near on topic and once it starts it chases away everyone except the anti-MQA trolls.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that this is a thread about Tidal MQA subscribers sharing their enjoyment of that. I'm not saying that enjoyment of Tidal Hi-Fi Plus tier subscriptions (which include but are not limited to MQA content) isn't relevant here. But that's not what this thread is about.
How in the world is your anti-MQA post possibly related to this thread? "Tidal’s New Lossless Tier Says Goodbye to MQA (but does it really?)"

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tidal’s-new-lossless-tier-says-goodbye-to-mqa-but-does-it-really.22968/post-769306
 
Last edited:

acbarn

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 11, 2020
Messages
1,149
Likes
2,711
Location
California
Mod's please stop this again before it starts, its moved from the closed down thread and being started up elsewhere.

It really is insensitive and rude no matter where you post the useless constant neverending anti-MQA blathering.
So we’re censoring negative comments about MQA now? While we’re at it, perhaps the “never ending pro-MQA blathering” should also be censored.
 
Last edited:

Rottmannash

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
1,267
Likes
896
Location
Nashville
I get that Tidal MQA offers up to 24bit/192kHz MQA lossy, but who is gonna pay extra for that over 16bit/44.1kHz lossless? Especially, when you could get Hi-Res FLAC lossless for less from Qobuz or Amazon HD? How much are they saving in bandwidth going MQA over FLAC? I'd be curious to know how much more efficient MQA is over FLAC in terms of bandwidth.
Worse
 

Rottmannash

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
1,267
Likes
896
Location
Nashville
If this rumour is true it will be a massive blow to the future success of MQA and an another earthquake to the HD streaming services in general after Spotify’s move to HD.

If Apple does bring HD to Apple Music then I hope they will start to get serious with their total reliance on AAC over Bluetooth.
Why would anyone use BT after paying for HiRes content??
 

Sal1950

Major Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
8,952
Likes
8,518
Location
Central Fl
If the above article and link story proves true. Looks like @amirm was right about MQA going away and it took 2 days for news to break.
From your lips to Gods ear. :p
 

tmtomh

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
1,103
Likes
3,294
Which I've made several posts about, and then this post comes out of the blue:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tidal’s-new-lossless-tier-says-goodbye-to-mqa-but-does-it-really.22968/post-769306

How is that post related to "Tidel's Subscription Tiers"? It is anti-MQA blathering completely out of the blue and not connected to anyone else's comment or post.

There are a number of other threads where MQA equipment and Tidal are the topics and we've had trolls drop such anti-MQA posts before, and they were stopped before they took over the thread. I hope that is stopped here too.

Normal slightly off-topic discussions about the subject happen of course, but such negative trolling isn't anywhere near on topic and once it starts it chases away everyone except the anti-MQA trolls.

How in the world is your anti-MQA post possibly related to this thread? "Tidal’s New Lossless Tier Says Goodbye to MQA (but does it really?)"

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tidal’s-new-lossless-tier-says-goodbye-to-mqa-but-does-it-really.22968/post-769306

RE the comment of mine you have linked to, if a moderator were to remove it, I would not complain or say a word about it - fair enough.

More broadly, though, the majority of my comments in this thread have been on-topic, whereas 100% of yours have not.
 

Rottmannash

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
1,267
Likes
896
Location
Nashville
I would, particularly since the similarly priced family subscription has become available. But its app so frequently freezes on Windows and behaves erratically on Android, far less stable than Tidal imho.
I've never had the app freeze, using the native app on Windows or on Audirvana.
 

Rottmannash

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
1,267
Likes
896
Location
Nashville
Mod's please stop this again before it starts, its moved from the closed down thread and being started up elsewhere.

And, for those of you that simply cannot resist sharing your unwanted opinions about MQA, please stop posting anti-MQA comments.

Especially, here in threads where owners of MQA capable equipment and subscribers to Tidal's MQA subscriptions are trying to share our enjoyment of those things.

"Tidal’s New Lossless Tier Says Goodbye to MQA (but does it really?)"

It really is insensitive and rude no matter where you post the useless constant neverending anti-MQA blathering.
Pretty sure this thread is not about extolling the virtues of MQA.
 

hmscott

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
May 17, 2020
Messages
562
Likes
453
Here is the link: https://twitteringmachines.com/tidals-new-lossless-tier-says-goodbye-to-mqa/

“Tidal, beginning in Australia, is offering a new streaming Tier that separates lossless CD-Quality (HiFi) from Hi-Res MQA/Atmos/360 Reality Audio (HiFi Plus). Here’s what the new three-tiered approach looks like:

  • Premium – $11.99 AUD a month with standard sound quality (320 Kbps)
  • HiFi – $17.99 AUD a month with lossless High Fidelity sound quality (1411 Kbps)
  • HiFi Plus – $23.99 AUD a month with lossless High Fidelity sound quality (1411 Kbps), Master Quality audio (up to 9216 Kbps), and immersive audio – 360 Reality Audio, Dolby Atmos Music”
RE the comment of mine you have linked to, if a moderator were to remove it, I would not complain or say a word about it - fair enough....
Pretty sure this thread is not about extolling the virtues of MQA.
Thanks, I read the 1st post when I made my first comment, so I actually know what the topic is supposed to be :cool:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/tidal’s-new-lossless-tier-says-goodbye-to-mqa-but-does-it-really.22968/page-3#post-766805

None of your posts in this thread has responded to the OP's subject:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?search/24253030/
I am surprised anyone here actually likes MQA; since I like surprises and learning, I am glad to have been following along.
Well, maybe you should read the 1st post and my reply to it, as myself and a few others have responded as subscribers to Tidal and the MQA Hifi Tier.

We have the equipment to make use of MQA, and enjoy listening to Tidal and MQA Masters. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom