Thread closures and controversy versus reality. Spoiler [Fact on the ropes]

[raistlin65]

Yes, I too deplore the modern 'all opinions are equally valid' approach.

I don't think so.

If I want legal advice, I'll give a lawyer's opinion more weight than a plumber's.
If I have trouble with my heating, I'll consult a plumber, not a lawyer.
If I have a pain in my stomach, I'll consult a medical doctor, not an engineer.
If I have a hifi question I'll take the opinion of an audio engineer, not some random bloke on a forum.

All opinions are NOT equally Valid, and people should stop opining about things they're not qualified to spout about.
Twitter and Facebook have done Truth a great disservice.

S.

I somewhat disagree.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Some are just necessarily better than others.

So I don't see anything inherently wrong with discussion where everyone expresses their opinion. One can respect someone else's right to have an opinion

That doesn't mean everyone has to respect the opinion itself that is being expressed.

At the same time, while this is a public internet forum, it is a privately owned discussion space. And unlike many public Internet forms, this is not a commercial enterprise making money.

If someone down the street has a party and invites the whole neighborhood to their home, one can't act like an ass and be upset when asked to leave by the property owner. And it is okay when the host has had enough and decided it's time to shut down the whole party. Whatever their reasons.

 

[leeroy 85032]

I somewhat disagree.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Some are just necessarily better than others.

So I don't see anything inherently wrong with discussion where everyone expresses their opinion. One can respect someone else's right to have an opinion

That doesn't mean everyone has to respect the opinion itself that is being expressed.

At the same time, while this is a public internet forum, it is a privately owned discussion space. And unlike many public Internet forms, this is not a commercial enterprise making money.

If someone down the street has a party and invites the whole neighborhood to their home, one can't act like an ass and be upset when asked to leave by the property owner. And it is okay when the host has had enough and decided it's time to shut down the whole party. Whatever their reasons.

the problem isn't that people are entitled to their own opinion ,, it's that every dipshit with a pulse can now communicate their dip shit thoughts(via the internet) to others while filtering out any dissension from people that are sane and have 3 digit iq's ....hence we end up where we are now...

 

[Willem]

I think the problem is mostly that people do not seem to appreciate the difference between facts and opinions. Admittedly, that is convenient for some.

 

[leeroy 85032]

I think the problem is mostly that people do not seem to appreciate the difference between facts and opinions. Admittedly, that is convenient for some.

it goes deeper than that... foxnoise msnbc and cnn (and a few others) foster a view that opinion equals fact , and only "ours" is the "just truth"....

 

[Thomas savage]

you are absolutely wrong.. i live below the poverty level.. demeaning my statement as false (which is an absolute incorrect assumption) also doesn't make my statement about amir's obvious misrepresentation any less true either.. one more thing ,i'd be happy to verify my income .. how about amir ?

No one's interested in your income, also no one's " guilted " into donating to ASR . . Your assertions and attitude are as insulting as they are inappropriate.

You are here enjoying free content , you benefit from the time and financial investment made by people you will never meet or know , you'd do well to be more respectful.

 

[raistlin65]

the problem isn't that people are entitled to their own opinion ,, it's that every dipshit with a pulse can now communicate their dip shit thoughts(via the internet) to others while filtering out any dissension from people that are sane and have 3 digit iq's ....hence we end up where we are now...

That's one thing I like about reddit's downvote feature. Some people do get the message that their opinion doesn't hold any value when their opinion receives a lot of downvotes.

Plus, it hides their posts from other readers once they reach a certain downvote threshold. You have to click on it to see their entire post.

 

[sergeauckland]

That's one thing I like about reddit's downvote feature. Some people do get the message that their opinion doesn't hold any value when their opinion receives a lot of downvotes.

Plus, it hides their posts from other readers once they reach a certain downvote threshold. You have to click on it to see their entire post.

The problem with that, is that the downvotes themselves are just another unqualified opinion. Who judges whether the opinion is valid?
That's what I think is wrong with ALL on line posting systems, that of no qualification for posting.
S

 

[stevenswall]

Religion and politics. Two things that are poisonous to any forum.

Agreed. Limit those to religious and political forums. Nobody hear by virtue of being interested in speakers or audio has a uniquely valuable perspective that needs to be shared on this platform. Save it for Facebook.

 

[stevenswall]

The problem with that, is that the downvotes themselves are just another unqualified opinion. Who judges whether the opinion is valid?
That's what I think is wrong with ALL on line posting systems, that of no qualification for posting.
S

That's okay too though, since I click on downvoted stuff specifically to see what goes against the grain.

 

[Vasr]

That's okay too though, since I click on downvoted stuff specifically to see what goes against the grain.

That would be an exception.

The upvote and downvote works as it should only in (online) communities where it isn't really needed.

Everywhere else, it just exacerbates group-think, influence by a more vocal minority, stifling of opposing views, etc. It is more often than not an indication of confirmation bias. The downvote is said to have worse negative outcomes than upvotes, hence many sites avoid it.

It is easy to game any of these. Even in this forum, there are simple like-baits you can use. Just say any random thing you want and end with clear and profuse compliments to the site and to Amir's work and you automatically gather a bunch of likes for that post. Not saying this is necessarily wrong but just pointing out that the meaning of a like/dislike isn't necessarily some appreciated understanding of content or its value. More of a Pavlovian response.

 

[leeroy 85032]

No one's interested in your income, also no one's " guilted " into donating to ASR . . Your assertions and attitude are as insulting as they are inappropriate.

You are here enjoying free content , you benefit from the time and financial investment made by people you will never meet or know , you'd do well to be more respectful.

just a comment not a mission statement .. thanks , duly noted..

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I have noticed over the last 20 years the way the West has become more Orwellian - sort of post-truth, "reality is whatever people believe" society.
We have even surpassed Orwell, in "1984" (and Stalinist Soviet Union) the authorities had to erase the physical evidence, the photos and documents.
Now even that is not required, just claim it's "fake news", who cares about facts, we believe.
In the audio context, on some websites it is prohibited to even discuss blind tests, I have read.
I assume it's rationalised as "too controversial" and creates too much work for the moderator.
So it seems that it is possible to remove a subject from the domain of rational debate if opponents just make sufficient trouble.
This website is very proud of it's "Science" basis but looks not to be immune.
After the closure of the latest CoVid thread I waited a while, so as not to post too rashly.
But it continues to disturb me.
So this post is not to restart the Covid debate but rather to unpick the closure of discussion.
I understand Thomas's frustration with some of the rubbish in the thread but why not ban the culprits rather than close the thread?
There is some real expertise in this forum and I miss their contributions.
The Covid information is now of less immediate concern to me because Australia has almost stopped community transmission.
But it saddens me to see liars and deniers win, and a closed thread feels like a step in that direction.
Whether that's a DBT thread elsewhere or a Covid one here.

David

What gets me is when they establish a "rational audiophile" ghetto on the site. It says "Y'all just sit at the kiddie table and let the 'adults' converse in peace." Really disgusting. Audiophile style and HeadFi sort of fall into that mold. SBAF are just a bunch of whack jobs who use measurements to "prove" the existence and audability of stuff like "plankton" from tube amplifiers, and other such horse shit.

Yeah, we both live in the golden age of audio with providers like Revel, Kef, Neumann, D & D, Kii, Purifi, Benchmark, even Schiit (hate to say it, but I said it), SMSL, Octo and the like providing exceptional scientifically designed product that achieves new performance heights for very fair prices.

And on the other hand, we have audio charlatans selling things like USB audio cables for the price of a pair of D & D 8cs!

It's truly the "best of times, and the worst of times."

 

[raistlin65]

The problem with that, is that the downvotes themselves are just another unqualified opinion. Who judges whether the opinion is valid?
That's what I think is wrong with ALL on line posting systems, that of no qualification for posting.
S

So why did you bother to post that unqualified opinion?

 

[sergeauckland]

So why did you bother to p[ost that unqualified opinion?

QED

S

 

[raistlin65]

QED

S

Just because you should eat their own dogfood, that doesn't mean that everyone else needs to

 

[sergeauckland]

Just because you should eat their own dogfood, that doesn't mean that everyone else needs to

Just what does that mean? Sorry, don't understand. Two countries divided by a common language?

S

 

[PierreV]

. More of a Pavlovian response.

I heard the bell, started salivating and gave you a like.

 

[tuga]

Yes, in the USA we are granted certain freedoms, but these can be a double-edged sword, and as long there's good money to be made by spreading fake news, you can bet that someone's going to cash in.

“There is more than one kind of freedom," said Aunt Lydia. "Freedom to and freedom from. In the days of anarchy, it was freedom to. Now you are being given freedom from. Don't underrate it.”

Margaret Atwood, The Handmaid's Tale

 

[North_Sky]

I like this thread now; it has various spices, now on the Likes clicking.
Lol

 

[Vasr]

I heard the bell, started salivating and gave you a like.

A like for good humor is also a Pavolvian response I am not immune to.