Thoughts on potential setup Rega Planar 3, kef r3 and NAD C 389 please.

[DSJR]

If you want to play your singles then be advised that with the Rega you have to remove the platter and move the belt on to a different wheel in order to change speed from 33 to 45.

With the Technics it's just pressing a button.

If he gets the Neo supply, it's also with a button push and fine speed tuning can be done as well with the Neo, allowing use of Rega's posher drive belts which reduce wow. The Technics will still out-perform in terms of W&F I'm sure, but as most fellas are reportedly made with little pitch acuity, it may not matter (I harken back to a UK TV article where men were asked to sing a song and most were hopeless ). Okay for UK consumers, but a Planar 3/Neo will probably be rather more expensive than a 1500C with good basic cartridge and, an acceptable phono stage built in, if purchased in non UK markets.


P.S. SL1200mkII era decks can be rebuilt and serviced I gather and if done, are well worthy if set up right with a suitable cartridge - Ortofon have revamped their 'Concorde' models with direct stylus equivalents to the 2M range*. Ken Kessler (HFN) reviewed one once with a Lyra pickup costing as much or more than the deck and was mightily impressed...

* https://ortofon.com/collections/concorde-music

 

[mike70]

Thanks all for the great positive perspectives, insights and ideas.
The demo at home is definately on the table and should be able to arrange this with a retailer, im sure. Saying that its the puppy dog technique... Once its in at home, the nuances of difference can be forgotten
I am leaning towards the technics 1500 as mentioned already.
My head is set in the r3 speakers.
Amps almost there till ny ears get some ratinale in place
Knowing me ill just order and be happy aftwr reading here and other places. Getting the records and kit set up for use is something I didnt think I was going to get done. So it's all good and I must draw back a little from the micro details to avoid procrastination leading to inaction thank you. Ill let you know how it pans out.

excellent options! ... and, in the future, change the red stylus for a blue stylus (you don't need to change the cartridge). Totally worth it.

 

[mike70]

Ken Kessler (HFN) reviewed one once with a Lyra pickup costing as much or more than the deck and was mightily impressed...

Many years ago, i listened to digital transfers coming from a SME high end turntable and from a technics 1200 with the same tonearm (the original tonearm was changed for a SME V) ... obviously, same cartridge, same preamp, same digital interface (Focusrite Scarlett), etc.

Indistinguishable.
Done for me.

 

[Mart68]

If he gets the Neo supply, it's also with a button push and fine speed tuning can be done as well with the Neo, allowing use of Rega's posher drive belts which reduce wow. The Technics will still out-perform in terms of W&F I'm sure, but as most fellas are reportedly made with little pitch acuity, it may not matter (I harken back to a UK TV article where men were asked to sing a song and most were hopeless ).

If singing in the correct pitch and hearing incorrect pitch were interchangeable there'd be no need for people who can sing properly, so that makes no sense to me.

Given almost all records are pressed off centre to some degree not sure that W&F matters that much but to my ears the Technics is still sonically superior to the Rega - and has better build quality by about an order of magnitude.

But turntables do sound different so it's hard to give any absolute recommendation, just options.

 

[mike70]

If singing in the correct pitch and hearing incorrect pitch were interchangeable there'd be no need for people who can sing properly, so that makes no sense to me.

Given almost all records are pressed off centre to some degree not sure that W&F matters that much but to my ears the Technics is still sonically superior to the Rega - and has better build quality by about an order of magnitude.

But turntables do sound different so it's hard to give any absolute recommendation, just options.

how many degrees of tracking error means the "off centre" records?
you tried a perfectly centered record vs an "off centre" record at some time or maybe you read that on the internet?

 

[Bland_username42069]

These kef 5 metas look a good price.

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(EBay link)

I’d do the money on speakers and a direct drive. Youve done 3k there with those two things. Just get a smsl or a Wiim from Amazon to audition and see what you think. If you want aesthetics then just use smsl as a temporary amp until you find something that compliments the room ex demo or something. Take yr time with amp.

 

[DSJR]

If singing in the correct pitch and hearing incorrect pitch were interchangeable there'd be no need for people who can sing properly, so that makes no sense to me.

Given almost all records are pressed off centre to some degree not sure that W&F matters that much but to my ears the Technics is still sonically superior to the Rega - and has better build quality by about an order of magnitude.

But turntables do sound different so it's hard to give any absolute recommendation, just options.

The fancier Rega belts all reportedly increased the running speeds further over the + 0.3% that the standard belt tends to do (I checked ever single deck I set up over the years with a very accurate 300Hz strobe. I could notice it, but most dealers and users couldn't or didn't. The later external supplies with fine speed tuning were a godsend, at least to me, but this means the minimum Rega model I'd contemplate if I had to buy one, would be the Planar 6. trouble is, it's now £1280 or so *plus cartridge* in the UK compared to £899 or thereabouts for the SL1500C which comes with a 2M Red AND a workable phono stage...

 

[Mart68]

how many degrees of tracking error means the "off centre" records?
you tried a perfectly centered record vs an "off centre" record at some time or maybe you read that on the internet?

Wow on sustained piano notes is pretty obvious.

There was a post on another forum by someone who has the Nakamichi record deck that automatically centres records. He said he had only ever come across one record that it didn't decide needed correction.

 

[waofner]

Looking predominantly for vinyl playback however the room also has a oled hdmi arc tv so the nad seems appealing.
Whilst i need to go and demo, i understand from reading the kefs and regas need careful pairing.
Currently the bundle comes in around 4500k max would be 5k.
Have seperate headphone amp so only need for vinyl, streaming and maybe tv hook up but the hdmi is a convenience rather than a priority. Would like to stream from tv, phone or bluetooth but a secondary to the vinyls.
Layman's guidance and input appreciated.
Thanks

Addum other 2 amps considering Audiophonics 400 or arcam 5

The heritage speakers come up a lot but i do like the look of the kef r3s.

rega turntables are good on any price level they come- definitly no "careful pairing" needed.
(only my 2 cent's: even a rega 1 will massivly improve with an MC-Cartridge. Hana, Benz Micro, AT's-best value)
a decent phono pre will also need no "careful pairing"
kef r3: the frequency response shows -5dB bass performance starting from 100 Hz to 40 Hz- at least no "pleasent harmann curve"

have fun!

 

[mike70]

Wow on sustained piano notes is pretty obvious.

There was a post on another forum by someone who has the Nakamichi record deck that automatically centres records. He said he had only ever come across one record that it didn't decide needed correction.

let me tell you that piano music in a speedy belt drive or with speed variations is very audible, and the same record in the trusty 1200s i had in the 80s sounded perfect, i never worried about off centre records (unless it was really, really off centered).

i hope you experienced that, 90% comments i find "against" vinyl comes from people that never used analog systems (they repeat what they find in the internet) or had experiencies in their grandpa turntable, with a wasted stylus, dirty records and almost any parameter offset (vtf, vta, etc etc), suffering with IGD, high noise, etc.

A decent analog system can sound really good. It's not cheap, not convenient, not ... many things .. yes, yes and yes ... but, sounding "bad"? ... not at all.

 

[Mart68]

let me tell you that piano music in a speedy belt drive or with speed variations is very audible, and the same record in the trusty 1200s i had in the 80s sounded perfect, i never worried about off centre records (unless it was really, really off centered).

i hope you experienced that, 90% comments i find "against" vinyl comes from people that never used analog systems (they repeat what they find in the internet) or had experiencies in their grandpa turntable, with a wasted stylus, dirty records and almost any parameter offset (vtf, vta, etc etc), suffering with IGD, high noise, etc.

A decent analog system can sound really good. It's not cheap, not convenient, not ... many things .. yes, yes and yes ... but, sounding "bad"? ... not at all.

I bought my first LP in 1983, I did not get a CD player until 1997. I've had a dozen or more turntables. I have a Moth cleaning machine, owned several 1200s and I still have one left with Nagaoka MP50 fitted, and have about 600 clean albums to play on it.

I never said analogue sounds bad. Just not as good, for multiple reasons of which off centre pressings is just one of them.

 

[mike70]

I bought my first LP in 1983, I did not get a CD player until 1997. I've had a dozen or more turntables. I have a Moth cleaning machine, owned several 1200s and I still have one left with Nagaoka MP50 fitted, and have about 600 clean albums to play on it.

I never said analogue sounds bad. Just not as good, for multiple reasons of which off centre pressings is just one of them.

It's ok, I only disagree ... I think the mastering / recording is the final difference.

The technical superiority in digital music only happens when the recording is really better ... in other way ... not.

As an example, only very very good recordings have more than 60dB of dynamic range, even the format can handle more (digital), in the real world, only happens in a few recordings. So the audible difference in favour of digital music is much lesser than the theory says.

 

[Mart68]

It's ok, I only disagree ... I think the mastering / recording is the final difference.

The technical superiority in digital music only happens when the recording is really better ... in other way ... not.

As an example, only very very good recordings have more than 60dB of dynamic range, even the format can handle more (digital), in the real world, only happens in a few recordings. So the audible difference in favour of digital music is much lesser than the theory says.

In the real world the differences are not huge I agree. Dynamic range is probably the least of them. Viny has a lot of noise and distortion that's inherent to it - the music masks the noise most of the time, and we are not so sensitive to harmonic distortion so these issues are covered up to an extent. But only to an extent.

I suppose it depends how fussy you are. I can listen to vinyl all day and enjoy it but we have something better - which is also cheaper and more convenient - so why not use that instead? That's my position. I don't see any advantage to using vinyl (in sound quality terms).

 

[mike70]

In the real world the differences are not huge I agree. Dynamic range is probably the least of them. Viny has a lot of noise and distortion that's inherent to it - the music masks the noise most of the time, and we are not so sensitive to harmonic distortion so these issues are covered up to an extent. But only to an extent.

I suppose it depends how fussy you are. I can listen to vinyl all day and enjoy it but we have something better - which is also cheaper and more convenient - so why not use that instead? That's my position. I don't see any advantage to using vinyl (in sound quality terms).

Agree totally ... in SQ vinyl have no advantage.
In my opinion, the real advantage is in the listening experience, I mean, a more tactile / physical experience with a big cardboard sleeve, the record spinning, etc.

Pushing the play button and sound that comes from "nowhere" is like the modern life, everything's quick, cold and far. Convenient of course ... but a little without compromise with the music, with what are you doing at that moment.

The only thing I discuss about vinyl, is that many people talks about it as a bad sounding format ... like something unlistenable. And that's not the truth .. as I also don't say "is better" than digital.

 

[Mysta]

For me vinyls been a journey and experience. Digital formats arrived later in life so less personal connection and found cds and cases less resistant to damage than records and granted, that maybe down to my perception of worth between the two. Then along came digital formats which became more disposable to me, but served a purpose for playback and recording etc.
Maybe its down to buying records since my first in 82 and having a specific chronology or personal history of discovery with music and artists, in turn tracking down the records or identifying a sample from a hip hop, rave, dance track etc and discovering new music.
Granted nowadays I stream more than I listen to on vinyl, however I now have more time and revenue to enjoy the records Ive collected over the years. Hell may even manage to sort out the 1000s of stamps left to me by my gran 2 decades prior as I listen