thomann t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini Review

[mightycicadalord]

A good deal for folks in Europe, but the shipping cost is steep for those of us in that other longitudinal hemisphere. For us, catching the Dayton Audio DSP-408 when it's on sale at Parts Express -- I got mine for $139.98 USD with free shipping a few weeks ago -- probably makes more sense unless balanced I/O is a priority.

How's the noise on the unit? only thing that stopped me were the noise complaints.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

How's the noise on the unit? only thing that stopped me were the noise complaints.

My application is very undemanding on that score -- the speakers are quite distant and my listening position is way off axis. I wouldn't use this unit for my main L+R speakers, which don't need EQ.

 

[Ciavatta]

Sonarworks have 0 latency mode.

Cool, but there's not a pc/mac in my chain, so I need a standalone dsp/correction tool

 

[modes]

Last time I checked mine makes a super loud click while turning on (connected to 107db/2.83 V compression tweeters with no padding it is deafening) Other than that I noticed no particular noise, even with the said tweeters sans resistors.
A slight bummer - It used to cost 77€ a couple of years ago when I grabbed mine, now it's at 111€

 

[Robbo99999]

So, just so I understand this product, it's 4 channels in & 4 channels out, and you can put DSP inbetween, that's the main objective right? And how many bands of parametric filters does it have at it's disposal? Does it have all of the different parametric filter available to choose from? I'm assuming you can also copy any of the input to all of the outputs, etc?

@amirm , & others, holy smokes is that poor IMD performance audible?

EDIT: it does seem that this product is a direct contender in terms of price & perhaps utility vs the miniDSP 2x4 that I have, but I don't know if it is more or less flexible in it's implementation......neither do I know for sure if it measures better......miniDSP 2x4: https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4
I use the miniDSP 2x4 between my TV and my x2 JBL 308p Mkii speakers....so the miniDSP is just used for 2-channel TV & movie watching....(for applying speaker anechoic EQ). (For music listening I use my laptop directly connected to those speakers using parametric EQ based on the laptop).
@amirm , might be interesting to measure that bog standard miniDSP 2x4

 

[mightycicadalord]

I'd love to see the 2x4 non HD measured so maybe we can see why it sounded off to me even with no filters.

 

[amirm]

And how many bands of parametric filters does it have at it's disposal?

Look at the UI snapshot for that in the review.

 

[PeteL]

So, just so I understand this product, it's 4 channels in & 4 channels out, and you can put DSP inbetween, that's the main objective right? And how many bands of parametric filters does it have at it's disposal? Does it have all of the different parametric filter available to choose from? I'm assuming you can also copy any of the input to all of the outputs, etc?

@amirm , & others, holy smokes is that poor IMD performance audible?

EDIT: it does seem that this product is a direct contender in terms of price & perhaps utility vs the miniDSP 2x4 that I have, but I don't know if it is more or less flexible in it's implementation......neither do I know for sure if it measures better......miniDSP 2x4: https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4
I use the miniDSP 2x4 between my TV and my x2 JBL 308p Mkii speakers....so the miniDSP is just used for 2-channel TV & movie watching....(for applying speaker anechoic EQ). (For music listening I use my laptop directly connected to those speakers using parametric EQ based on the laptop).
@amirm , might be interesting to measure that bog standard miniDSP 2x4

I think it comes to if you want balanced connections. We do not know how it measures but in terms of specs it’s similar. exept the mini dsp will only output 0.9V. a couple dB extra dynamic range but we'd have to measure. The miniDSP 2x4 HD was measured here and it was uniimpressive but it’s Amir Pre audio precision, the reference aren’t the same hard to tell based on that,

 

[pseudoid]

A figure for overall system latency with all filters engaged could be a useful addition for such DSP products. As we know, it can vary immensely from product to product.
If video is involved, excess DSP delay can be a deal breaker.

You nailed it!
I have a 2-year old Rotel AVP (#RSP-1576) and I was having problems attempting to 'time-sync' its L/R outputs (downstairs) to the Dante AoIP outputs going to L/R outputs (upstairs). I finally came to the realization that the Rotel AVP latency is much longer than the thru-put of the same analog feed going thru TWO AoIP dongles, TWO PoE LAN switches and about 60-feet of Cat-6.
I am still scratching my head about this puzzle. Intentionally adding delays on the Dante thru-put bothers me.

It appears that neither photo of Post#5 or Post#10 (and maybe even Post#45) appear to be the same internals or the internals of the model tested by @amirm ... thank you @amirm

 

[amirm]

Good point about the latency. Let me see if I can measure it later today.

 

[amirm]

I don't think I have a plain minidsp 2x4. I think I bought the SHD version.

 

[Robbo99999]

I don't think I have a plain minidsp 2x4. I think I bought the SHD version.

You've measured the HD version, but I would for sure like to see their entry level 2x4 miniDSP measured, it's only $90....actually it's $105 at the moment (recent inflation probs).

Look at the UI snapshot for that in the review.

Hmm, so only 7 band of PEQ? miniDSP 2x4 if you choose the right software plug-in for it can do 2 banks of 6 band PEQ on each channel, and then an extra 8 bands on top of that if you include manually inputting biquads in the Crossover Section (which don't have to be used as crossovers) - so there's up to 20 bands of PEQ per channel available on the the miniDSP 2x4 if you're an "advanced user" and 12 bands if you're not an "advanced user". Hmmm, so miniDSP 2x4 wins on that front then.

 

[mdsimon2]

I think it comes to if you want balanced connections. We do not know how it measures but in terms of specs it’s similar. exept the mini dsp will only output 0.9V. a couple dB extra dynamic range but we'd have to measure. The miniDSP 2x4 HD was measured here and it was uniimpressive but it’s Amir Pre audio precision, the reference aren’t the same hard to tell based on that,

For reference here is a 2X4HD measured using a MOTU M4 analog output -> 2X4HD -> MOTU M4 analog input using similar parameters to ASR (20-20K bandwidth, 2V input). Obviously the MOTU is nowhere near the quality of the AP in terms of analog output / input but from this measurement it is pretty clear that the limiting factor is the 2X4HD, not the MOTU.

THD+N (SINAD) is -88.5 dB so just a hair better than the Thomann. Important to note that both the Thomann and the 2X4HD are rather noisy so proper gain structure (not too high of amplifier gain) is important.

2X4HD ADC-DAC

Michael

 

[Robbo99999]

I think it comes to if you want balanced connections. We do not know how it measures but in terms of specs it’s similar. exept the mini dsp will only output 0.9V. a couple dB extra dynamic range but we'd have to measure. The miniDSP 2x4 HD was measured here and it was uniimpressive but it’s Amir Pre audio precision, the reference aren’t the same hard to tell based on that,

You're right about the lack of balanced connections & the only 0.9V out, for sure! (It can accept 2V in though, but whilst only outputting 0.9V). You mention Amir measuring the HD version, and he did indeed, but I'm talking about their entry level miniDSP 2x4, it's not the HD version. (Your prior comments still hold true for the miniDSP 2x4 though).

 

[rvsixer]

I don't think I have a plain minidsp 2x4. I think I bought the SHD version.

I have a miniDSP 2x4 I can send in for testing if there's enough clamor for it. As an aside I tried using it for full range and it was noisy, so it was used for sub only duty where its fine (except for the very low output voltage).

 

[amirm]

Added latency to the review. It is about 1 millisecond.

I was also asked to see if distortion increases when you drive it with unbalanced input. It does not:

 

[restorer-john]

Added latency to the review. It is about 1 millisecond.

That seems a very low number and and an excellent figure for such a low cost device.

 

[iMickey503]

Ugh.. I don't mean to be THAT guy.. But..
8 channels or 6 channels about the same price.
Bluetooth control.
Hardware Controls right on the Unit.
Display on unit.
Can turn your amps on as well. (Not sure if it has a time delay etc)


2 channels input instead of 4.
Not balanced.
simple U.I. Vs. Full dashboard.
BYO Power supply.
Most documentation in Spanish/ Portuguese and help/ Forums.

Simple video tutorial about it here.

I mean I get this is good for simple setups. But 4 channels? I don't think that cuts it anymore. I'm sure its a great unit. I just don't see the Value here when you can get 8 of them for $119.00 US.

And I'm not sure if this plays out in the real world. But here are the Experts Specs. Seems like this is better way to go if you want more channels. Or do a full active system for a budget with what looks like Better fidelity that works at both home and mobile applications.

I bet you some of you electronic wizards could add balanced inputs and outputs to this really is your thing. Maybe an ever better PWM supply inside etc to push it further. Most of you are engineers afterall.

I just think a 4 channel DSP is just not worth it. Even Car head units have 6 outputs with a more limited feature set and about the same sinad I would think.

But again. I'm not the smarty pants here. Just throwing that out there.

 

[usersky]

Ugh.. I don't mean to be THAT guy.. But..
8 channels or 6 channels about the same price.
Bluetooth control.
Hardware Controls right on the Unit.
Display on unit.
Can turn your amps on as well. (Not sure if it has a time delay etc)


2 channels input instead of 4.
Not balanced.
simple U.I. Vs. Full dashboard.
BYO Power supply.
Most documentation in Spanish/ Portuguese and help/ Forums.

View attachment 202186

Simple video tutorial about it here.

I mean I get this is good for simple setups. But 4 channels? I don't think that cuts it anymore. I'm sure its a great unit. I just don't see the Value here when you can get 8 of them for $119.00 US.

And I'm not sure if this plays out in the real world. But here are the Experts Specs. Seems like this is better way to go if you want more channels. Or do a full active system for a budget with what looks like Better fidelity that works at both home and mobile applications.
View attachment 202196
I bet you some of you electronic wizards could add balanced inputs and outputs to this really is your thing. Maybe an ever better PWM supply inside etc to push it further. Most of you are engineers afterall.

I just think a 4 channel DSP is just not worth it. Even Car head units have 6 outputs with a more limited feature set and about the same sinad I would think.

But again. I'm not the smarty pants here. Just throwing that out there.

Having fixed frequencies makes this a GEQ, not a PEQ, that's how I read the specs. Not comparable if true.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Having fixed frequencies makes this a GEQ, not a PEQ, that's how I read the specs. Not comparable if true.

Yup.