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This audio cable business is getting out of hand...

JJB70

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I am very interested in the potential sonic qualities of condoms when used as speaker cable, let's be honest it's no more bonkers than the nonsense spouted by Audioquest, Nordost etc and at least it would come in useful for something else if you didn't like the sound quality.
 
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It's part of the religion for the expensive ones.

It also gives them a way to tell the customer not to return them right away when they don't hear the magic. It may not sound any better now, but give your brain time to burn in the idea that these must be better, and sure enough...

Those who buy cheaper, competent cables, buy them precisely because they know they are adequate for the job. They don't need to listen with a dose of snake oil.

Sensible re-sellers should have the cables (if required) burned-in for the requisite time -before handing over to interested listener's.

When I had my store, I did this regularly: If interested, take (cables) home (over the weekend) and return them with your HONEST opinion.
I stressed if no differences/or very little differences were observed to inform me of precisely their thoughts. I went out-of-my-way to assure them if they returned the cables laughing (for good/or ill) i would not be offended: I was just looking to gain further listener consensus (and I was).
In no way did I expect them to purchase the cable -just wanted them to experience first-hand.

Near all of the interested listener's (9/10) were nothing short of astonished at what they experienced; no one was breathing down their necks, nor were they rushed in a noisy environment -they were at home . Many had their wives/children;;s and friends chime-in to make sure they weren't "hearing things " lol. ALL, were surprised -and enlightened.

Sometimes, it's both practical an sensible to lean on use some collective wisdom when engaging in into such territory, but most importantly an open mind -and the comfort in acknowledging and appreciating the sold merits of honest feelings/listening observations that I suspect can be helped along by decidedly non-audiophile type listener's. And then come to the realization/understanding that there exists an entire psycho-electrical world/reality 'we (science) poorly understands -yet will slowly unravel.

Yet, there's no point/need waiting for that "proof" is there? It's been my experience that some listener's are inherently ill-equipped to sense, feel or appreciate nuances and thus desperately demand something physical; anything (a graph -numbers, data, spec's) that shows it is, or isn't.

Such 'listener's are simply out-of-their-element (displaced) when it comes to appreciating the dimensionality, range, color and fidelity of premium, high-resolution sound reproduction.


peter jasz
 

ahofer

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Yet, there's no point/need waiting for that "proof" is there? It's been my experience that some listener's are inherently ill-equipped to sense, feel or appreciate nuances and thus desperately demand something physical; anything (a graph -numbers, data, spec's) that shows it is, or isn't.

Such 'listener's are simply out-of-their-element (displaced) when it comes to appreciating the dimensionality, range, color and fidelity of premium, high-resolution sound reproduction.


peter jasz
I was tempted to agree that there is a lot between the ear drum and the brain, often affected by the other senses, as well as the locus of attention and preconceptions of the listener.....

BUT then there it is, the attempted snobbery bec fin audiophile fallacy, the idea that those who demand evidence just can't tell the difference, when the overwhelming odds are that you and your customers can't tell cables apart when you don't know which one is in the system. Again, the burden of proof is on you, we don't buy that you have these powers. The bec fin fallacy is a hail Mary pass to convince the gullible (including yourself).
 

BDWoody

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Sensible re-sellers should have the cables (if required) burned-in for the requisite time -before handing over to interested listener's.

When I had my store, I did this regularly: If interested, take (cables) home (over the weekend) and return them with your HONEST opinion.
I stressed if no differences/or very little differences were observed to inform me of precisely their thoughts. I went out-of-my-way to assure them if they returned the cables laughing (for good/or ill) i would not be offended: I was just looking to gain further listener consensus (and I was).
In no way did I expect them to purchase the cable -just wanted them to experience first-hand.

Near all of the interested listener's (9/10) were nothing short of astonished at what they experienced; no one was breathing down their necks, nor were they rushed in a noisy environment -they were at home . Many had their wives/children;;s and friends chime-in to make sure they weren't "hearing things " lol. ALL, were surprised -and enlightened.

Sometimes, it's both practical an sensible to lean on use some collective wisdom when engaging in into such territory, but most importantly an open mind -and the comfort in acknowledging and appreciating the sold merits of honest feelings/listening observations that I suspect can be helped along by decidedly non-audiophile type listener's. And then come to the realization/understanding that there exists an entire psycho-electrical world/reality 'we (science) poorly understands -yet will slowly unravel.

Yet, there's no point/need waiting for that "proof" is there? It's been my experience that some listener's are inherently ill-equipped to sense, feel or appreciate nuances and thus desperately demand something physical; anything (a graph -numbers, data, spec's) that shows it is, or isn't.

Such 'listener's are simply out-of-their-element (displaced) when it comes to appreciating the dimensionality, range, color and fidelity of premium, high-resolution sound reproduction.


peter jasz
Blah blah blah blah blah blah soundstage....Blahblahblahblah...Details...

For those interested in what total bullschiit sounds like...Listen to this guy.

Yeah...Some just don't buy into the magic fairy dust, which is really all you've got for those of us poor folks who just don't get it.

Just shaking my head... Clowns popping up everywhere.
 
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As you can see, you are in enemy territory. Honestly, there is such overwhelming evidence that perceptions of sound quality in cables is not strictly *audible*, the burden of proof is on you, not Amir's resume. Nothing short of a properly designed blind test is acceptable. Until you can demonstrate a difference, people here will just go with the odds and assume you are making it up. From a Bayesian perspective, they are correct to do so.

GENIUS !

How did I stumble upon such profound wisdom ?

pj
 
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Blah blah blah blah blah blah soundstage....Blahblahblahblah...Details...

For those interested in what total bullschiit sounds like...Listen to this guy.

Yeah...Some just don't buy into the magic fairy dust, which is really all you've got for those of us poor folks who just don't get it.

Just shaking my head... Clowns popping up everywhere.

And then there are those who NEVER learn -as a lifetime evaporates, there remain those none-the-wiser. Pity, indeed.

pj
(P.S. And how many years have you under that bulging belt? )
 

JJB70

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Well, look at the/your bright side: Fisher-Price hi-fi is not in need of such considerations/concerns.

pj
I would bet that if we set up a level matched ABX with Fisher Price cables of the right gauge and some burnt in snake oil of your choice you would not be able to tell them apart.
 

ahofer

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GENIUS !

How did I stumble upon such profound wisdom ?

pj
You purposely posted unverifiable and extraordinary claims within a group of people who aren't impressed with your bluster about pseudo-credentials and elite connoisseurship. Good for you, you should always reckon with the strongest arguments against your beliefs and not let yes-men convince you you know everything.

Let the reckoning begin. I, for one, would be tickled to learn that the differences I perceived between amps and cables were audible and not self-synthesized. I have to doubt it, though.
 

BDWoody

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Well, look at the/your bright side: Fisher-Price hi-fi is not in need of such considerations/concerns.

pj
Cable burn in, oh the pity of it :facepalm:
Well, when he had his store, at least he took them home to save the customer from all that burn in hassle. Could even be dangerous...
 

amirm

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amirm: May I ask how many years experience you have with audio 'cables': how many you used/connected, how many systems, how many people were involved -and over how many years, or decades ?

Once you inform us, I'll reveal my experiences/expertise -but more importantly (to some readers) that of actual non-audiophile/high-end customers
remarks/thoughts on very readily observable SQ distinctions, along with their experience using, well respected/received premium-priced cable.

peter jasz
My first experience with high end cables was around 1984 or so. I own a bunch transparent audio cables including speaker, RCA and balanced. I also own some monster cables.

The part you really want to know is that I go to some audio shows with my company badge and dealer status. I talk to all high end companies behind customer backs. You know, how great the margins are in high end cables. And how the color and style of jacket and heat shrinking gets the customer to part with his money.

Funny but sad story. Went to an audio/video distributor meeting where they pitched that we should source our displays from them. I asked if they could beat big box store prices. He said no! And that our cost would be 10% higher than their retail price!!! I asked how that made business sense. He said we could make that up by selling extended warranty and cables!!!

Ever try to walk out of an AV store without them pounding to buy cables? Now you know why.

So treat me as an industry insider in whatever you post.
 

amirm

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Sensible re-sellers should have the cables (if required) burned-in for the requisite time -before handing over to interested listener's.

When I had my store, I did this regularly: If interested, take (cables) home (over the weekend) and return them with your HONEST opinion.
I stressed if no differences/or very little differences were observed to inform me of precisely their thoughts. I went out-of-my-way to assure them if they returned the cables laughing (for good/or ill) i would not be offended: I was just looking to gain further listener consensus (and I was).
In no way did I expect them to purchase the cable -just wanted them to experience first-hand.

Near all of the interested listener's (9/10) were nothing short of astonished at what they experienced; no one was breathing down their necks, nor were they rushed in a noisy environment -they were at home . Many had their wives/children;;s and friends chime-in to make sure they weren't "hearing things " lol.
you ever wonder why are there identical stories like that for every high end cable regardless of construction and technical makeup? How is that possible?

how can you tell the good from bad when every audiophile wife or girlfriend is an expert in hearing such improvements from a mile away? Is there a school they go to to develop such acuity that they can tell a new cable from the room next door?

How is it that we don't hear stories about the female partners ever walking up to the audiophile saying they just screwed up their sound with their latest change? Why is their prophecy always positive?

I also wonder why these females hear thing like cables but flunk interest in all things audiophile? What is it about them that doesn't care about differences in speakers but only take interest in audio tweaks???
 

Thomas savage

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Sensible re-sellers should have the cables (if required) burned-in for the requisite time -before handing over to interested listener's.
id·i·o·cy
/ˈidēəsē/

noun: extremely stupid behavior.

synonyms: stupidity, folly, foolishness, foolhardiness, madness, insanity, lunacy, silliness, brainlessness, thoughtlessness, senselessness, lack of sense, indiscretion, irresponsibility, injudiciousness, imprudence, rashness, recklessness, ineptitude, inaneness, inanity, irrationality, illogicality, absurdity, nonsense, ludicrousness, ridiculousness, fatuousness, fatuity, asininity, pointlessness, meaninglessness, futility, fruitlessness; informalcraziness; informaldaftness
 

Blumlein 88

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you ever wonder why are there identical stories like that for every high end cable regardless of construction and technical makeup? How is that possible?

how can you tell the good from bad when every audiophile wife or girlfriend is an expert in hearing such improvements from a mile away? Is there a school they go to to develop such acuity that they can tell a new cable from the room next door?

How is it that we don't hear stories about the female partners ever walking up to the audiophile saying they just screwed up their sound with their latest change? Why is their prophecy always positive?

I also wonder why these females hear thing like cables but flunk interest in all things audiophile? What is it about them that doesn't care about differences in speakers but only take interest in audio tweaks???
Just this weekend I experienced the rare case of a wife not hearing a difference. I switched out a microphone cable. The husband asked his wife if she noticed it was better. "Sounds the same to me what is different". I feel I should write an AES paper on this unusual phenomenon. The other cable was shorting out and causing scratchy distortion now and again, and his wife never noticed.
 
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